Autopsy 2025 Round 18: Swans swindle slow Saints

[austinnn]

Sell Marshall for FRDP, TDK Heath and Dodson can get it done

 

[Ads734]

I already like Ross the person. He is a great speaker, funny dude, very likeable.

I will like Ross the coach when he remembers how to win football games, something he has found immensely difficult his last 7 seasons of coaching.

Personally, I do think he has been figured out a touch and we are running with an outdated game plan. I find him stubborn and unwilling to try different rotations resulting in us regularly losing the same way. We play conservative football favouring bombing down the line to undersized forwards.

That is not just Lyon though. Where is Bolton? Our forward structures have been very poor all year.

Ultimatley, I am finding it hard to envisage us having any kind of edge in the coaching box.

I mean Richmond and North are winning more than us over a 3 month period. How can we say we have talent on the list but also claim we are well coached when we can't win a game of football?

I am very surprised just how comfortable people are with 2-11. 2 wins in 3 months ffs

Well we beat Richmond and have not even played north.

 

[Ads734]

So you think this is a 2-11 list?

You think it is fine to be the only team to lose to WC this year?

Or to lose to Carlton when they had 1 healthy person on the bench for an entire game of football?

You pretty happy with the output this coaching group is getting from the playing group are you?

You must think the list is absolute garbage of that is the case. I certainly don't.

This is so silly. Because X, y and z occurred you must think A. So so silly. Multiple things can be true.

 

[Joffaboy]

At the risk of igniting a completely ****ing pointless Ross discussion again, I think the issue is it’s all extremes.

You’re either a die hard cultist and wanna see the club give him control of everything with a 100 year contract OR you’re a hater who believes a bunch of myths about ugly footy and shit scoring.

In reality right now on output we’re 15th in a year we were supposed to be building to top 8. We’ve shown some real genuine glimpses of future potential but also that could fall apart in a heartbeat (Nas leaves and king never gets right we’re likely no better in 2026).

He’s contracted until the end of 2027, there are no better options right now and we’ve handed him the whole footy department (everyone bar the trainee receptionist reports to him I believe). We’re invested and there’s no logical reason to abandon that for the time being.

Having said that, if we’re still cellar dwelling in 2027 all the green shoots in the world won’t count for much.

I am neither. Think Ross is a very good coach, bug a coach lives and dies by results.
Can't be bottom four forever and say in your job.

 

[LuckyBounce!]

You love those cherries hey?

We're 5-12 not 2-11, and we've only played 6 games against teams outside top 9. That includes Sydney today, who are relatively healthy for the first time all year, and have won 4 of the last 5

Yes WC and Carlton were poor games

But we also smacked Freo by 61 points on a night records were tumbling- records of the unpleasant variety for Fremantle

We beat Richmond by 82- their biggest loss of the year

We stuck with Collingwood for 7/8ths of the game- a team who's 1.5 games and percentage clear on top

Today was a ripping effort despite the loss.

And this is a season we've debuted countless players (is anyone counting? How many? I'd like to know...) and we've consistently played 5 or 6 with <20/25 games experience

Max Heath was our 8th debutante for the year

 

[SG34]

Max Heath was our 8th debutante for the year

So what is everyone’s verdict on Heath’s debut? Aside from the good bloke vibe. Just straight down the line, did he make us better? More likely to win?

 

[Veer Right]

So what is everyone’s verdict on Heath’s debut? Aside from the good bloke vibe. Just straight down the line, did he make us better? More likely to win?

Without question i would rather Heath over Caminiti or Keeler as our KPF/Ruck. The other two are better defenders.

 

[my name was taken]

Grundy hard done by not to get a 7th free kick for this. But seriously, absolutely dog shit. Could do whatever he liked out there

 

[Veer Right]

Hunter Clark should not be playing. He's the new version of billings and Dunstan. Same shit over and over again.

Sooner dow is fit the better. Atleast he's a genuine mid.

I was thinking after last weeks game i would like to see Boxshall come in and replace Clark who i don't see as best 22 going forward. To see it nearly come to fruition tells me Ross might be on the same page.

We need to move on from Jones to.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Pretty great performance from team TBH. We just coughed up some easy goals with poor kicks in the back half and didn't capitalise on some golden opportunities. The game was horrifically over-umpired and we generally copped the rough end of the stick (how many frees were paid to Sydney when two players were holding each other?) but we had some howlers go out way as well.

We looked much better with a big strong lump up forward who could bring the ball to ground. Moose didn't have a huge game stats-wise but he held his ground and didn't let Sydney get easy intercept marks, which we've been crying out for all year. Will be good to see him up against a much weaker ruck setup next week. This game also solidified how stupid our pursuit of TDK is - we have Marshall who will be very good for another few years, Dodson ready to take over when Marshall is done and Heath looks like a very serviceable backup ruck/forward. Plus Keeler who should be able to pinch hit effectively with another couple of years in the gym. I hope we're dropping out offer to TDK and giving him a chance to choose Carlton for 200k less per year.

Loved Hugo's goal. When was the last time we had a mid stream forward and kick a goal from the center bounce? Probably Stuv

Steele has seem reinvigorated in recent weeks. Must be more exciting playing alongside the likes of Garcia, Tauru, Heath, Boxshall, Hastie compared to Jones, Byrnes, Webster etc. I like that he's pushing forward again - this was a handy string to his bow when he was at his best.

Hill continued his terrible year and has to be dropped off there is any selection integrity left at all. Over running that loose ball in defence because he was afraid of the contact coming from behind was disgraceful. I'll accept rookie errors from rookies, not from veterans.

Clark's lack of pace was very obvious, despite coming on as sub. I think it's time we move past him. I've been a fan but I think this is his ceiling and it's not good enough.

If I could pick next week's team, I'd go Butler, Hill, Clark out with Arie, Wilson and Dow (sub) in.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Im not saying ross is the best coach out there for us (maybe but idk), but if you're gonna bring someone in at least wait until the team is ready to rise, don't bring them in while the list is still in heavy transition, give them a fresh start. How many coaches survive the rebuild phase? most of the time they come in when the club is in a decent spot and then launch from there. Either ross takes us to the finals in the next few years, or he sets the place up for the next person to do it, running him out of town prematurely helps no one

 

[sauce_head]

For a loss, that was a solid effort. Moose is above Keeler already.

Nas is so good to watch live, he is getting more and more audacious each game - that double feint into getting done HTB was hilarious, he really does have that FIGJAM about him, love it!

Wins don't really help us much now, and we still have the Dees, North, Richmond and Essendon to come. There will be some wins there.

Can tank all those games by playing kids and get pick 3 sewn up.

 

[BigMonty]

If you look at our last 5 weeks, we have played some teams contending for preliminary finals at worst. We play a side that is almost the same side that has played in 2 GFs in 3 yesrs. Oh then let's go down to the cattery for another hard game.
Then we get the easier run of North, Rich, Melb, Ess.
So on one hand Ross is shit because we could not beat top 8 sides with a young playing group, but then when we win 4 of the last 5 we are losing our draft position and winning meaningless games with teams decimated by injuries so it is not a yardstick anyway. Fu##k me what a group of negative Nancy naysayers.
I was proud of my team last night, they played with flair and spirit desire and fight.
Loved the pile on Grundy when caught HTB, was like being back in 6th grade....loved it players did too.

8 weeks ago Roma kicks the ball fforward because he has no idea Hugo can execute like he did let alone be in the position he was.....that's all about player development and what 6 more games of AFL and good coaching can do. Roma also has to have the confidence to hold the ball and that comes from working as a unit week in week out at training and then executing in the cauldron of an AFL game.
Naysayers go and watch the Tigers Ess game or North Melb game to see how poor some sides are developing, we are so far ahead it is not funny.
It is our veterans that are starting to let the side down nore and more which says more about our development than anything else.
On TDK how smug and excited we were after the first 6 weeks of the season....then Carlton did a Carlton and now we are not so sure, place our trust in a one outstanding game in the VFL in Dodson. I say great drafting, rather than be critical about not going after TDK.

Do I want Roma to go of course not Roma doesn't want to go, the side does not want Roma to go, but that's today's football. If Cats see an opportunity to grab him it could be a win win win for all concerned. He may be a premiership player which is unlikely to happen at Saints given our development profile.

One thing TDK will give us is more mobility which is what Ross seems to be focussing on quick players who can run all day....whether that's the right strategy only time will tell.

Who would you rather be Ess Melb or Blues with aging lists....Rich or North with young lists that are on our development path Wce who are nowhere and okay beat us on their home deck..
Port Freo inconsistent away from home. Rather be us than Sydney so that's 9 sides. We have not had our Key Fwd Back and emerging on ball talent all year put them in and we are close to being a very good side...but we all get injuries so it is not a strong excuse but it is isn't it.
These current games we are playing are adding to the emeeging experiencial springboard for next year.

Teams come on quick al la Hawks and Ade but also drop off quick Carlton Port even Swans before getting players back.

Looking forward to next 5 weeks and April 2026.

Go Saints you miserable bunch of bastards.

 

[wannabewinner]

Freo... Run over in the 4th quarter
Sydney... Run over in the 4th quarter

Has anyone see the pattern?

 

[Klaatu]

I'm never arguing against that. Ruck's are the most overrated players in footy unless you're into SuperCoach. I'd never pay huge money for one.

Overrated right that tap Grundy did to Gulden was sublime & proved the decisive blow, but keep believing rucks are over rated.

 

[Saintbloke]

Ross did ok in 08,09,10
Our coaching isn't the problem

That was then- times have changed and so has the game

 

[gubby88]

Freo... Run over in the 4th quarter
Sydney... Run over in the 4th quarter

Has anyone see the pattern?

yep, we are playing with a very young team that can't run out games late in the season. they didn't have issues at the start of the season against Geelong or Port. play those games now we lose

 

[Klaatu]

Which one... There were a couple. He didn't play badly today but each mistake almost always results in a goal

Played solely on Lloyd at HBF & he kicked 3 goals for the game, Hills just not tight enough or have awareness were his player is.

 

[Saintbloke]

yep, we are playing with a very young team that can't run out games late in the season. they didn't have issues at the start of the season against Geelong or Port. play those games now we lose

A great effort yesterday, especially the second quarter, but...

The worrying problem is the older/ more experienced players fading later in the matches. Steele had had an up and down year IMO, but played very well up until later then faded and wasn't hitting the contests as hard, Clark is too slow with no effect as a sub, and Macrae gets the ball but probably in the same boat. Marshall has had an ordinary year IMO and for all the good things Hill does, he stuffs up equally as much, and Wood is all over the shop and seems to have lost his magic to impact a game. Wilke and Stocker put in good efforts over the game

The young/ inexperienced players we expect to tire in tough games, but there is a lot of hope with Tauru, Hastie, Garcia, Boxsall.. NWM..who knows if he will be with us, and a few others who should go on and just get better.

We can't afford to go backwards again next season- we couldn't this season, and tough decisions will need to be made on and off the field.

 

[cartwright]

Weird… this week was the most excited, interested and probably best side we’ve had all year. Save for some errant goal kicking or crappy kicks in defensive 50, we win.

And people are going on about the coach….

 

[BrutThough]

So what is everyone’s verdict on Heath’s debut? Aside from the good bloke vibe. Just straight down the line, did he make us better? More likely to win?

Improvement on Keeler because he actually competed. It was a solid debut.

His performance changed nothing in terms of his likelihood of getting a new contract with us.

 

[cartwright]

So what is everyone’s verdict on Heath’s debut? Aside from the good bloke vibe. Just straight down the line, did he make us better? More likely to win?

Made us better structurally, performed well - gave us options

 

[pebblesofsand]

So what is everyone’s verdict on Heath’s debut? Aside from the good bloke vibe. Just straight down the line, did he make us better? More likely to win?

Did exactly what I expected by providing height, strength and a contest in the fwd half.

What did surprise me was his strength in the ruck contests - was very hard to shift. Should keep his spot for a couple of weeks at least.

The future - well Tom Campbell made a very successful career out of being "nearly" an AFL first ruck.

Marshall (or TDK) Heath and Dodson - looks a reasonable mix.

 

[gringo2011]

Carlton have been a rabble since the 2000's
Not even Pagan, Malthouse and Voss could change it
When TDK comes he will play under a quality coach for the first time in his career.
Our young brigade are all showing signs which is a direct reflection of our drafting, development and coaching.
The ships course is being corrected finally we may be on the right track time will tell

The kids are coming on due to number of factors and one is pumping games into them. He gets credit for that and he has structured up a pro footy department but if he can't get us from bottom 4 to top 4 he'll still be seen as a failed appointment.

Carlton has some spectacularly good players, he just can't win games of footy.

 

[gringo2011]

Most of our midfield seemed to hold onto the ball for an extra second or two and find an option rather than hack kick it forward as much which was good. The Garcia goal was a classic example where Marshall would usually bomb it.

We saw how much better we were with some structure and a big key forward. We looked less hesistant to go long compared to the last couple of months. I'm not convinced Heath ever makes it long term but he's worth persisting with for the next few weeks at least. Gives us a view of what a TDK/Marshall combo could do without King.

It made it hard for Sydney to get our inside 50 kicks picked off. Probably our lowest count for the season. Moose lumbered into every contest and skittled players which helped. We lacked a bit of system and Butler and Snags both struggled to capitalise but it made us look more dangerous inside 50.