Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVIII

[Aphrodite]

#BUMP from February


Re: 'Alleged' rumours resurfacing ...

Folks, this is the way things are here.

Posters are responsible for what they post. Moderators can not attest to the accuracy or otherwise of any rumour posted.

Moderators will intervene for a couple of reasons.

1. If a thread is threatening to be derailed because of a post.

2. If invested parties request the removal of material.

None of this draws a conclusion as to the accuracy or otherwise of the original post.

There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.

Also, you need to remember that this thread like all parts of this forum is bound by the rules of poster conduct. If you want to express skepticism towards a rumour that's fine, but having a crack at posters who are contributors to this forum is simply not on and will be acted upon.

Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[Gethelred]

I believe it's the truth. You may see it different. That's okay

You're welcome to view things however you like, it still remains your opinion. And this forum is a wonderful place because our opinions differ.

But pretending your opinion is fact is another thing entirely.

Soapy V, I'm happy to the ends of the earth to agree to disagree with you. I'm not happy to allow your opinion - and it is opinion - to pass as fact. Is that something that is acceptable to you?

 

[Soapy V]

You're welcome to view things however you like, it still remains your opinion. And this forum is a wonderful place because our opinions differ.

But pretending your opinion is fact is another thing entirely.

Soapy V, I'm happy to the ends of the earth to agree to disagree with you. I'm not happy to allow your opinion - and it is opinion - to pass as fact. Is that something that is acceptable to you?

When I see things in front of me and are told by people who know and I trust involved and I take it as fact. But, that's me

But to say I am "pretending" in this case is factually wrong

 

[yibbida]

So NOT sacking everyone as you posted?

If you sack at least 3 coaches and then head coach (and more coaches) and the head of Football as per rumours. It's basically business as usual and nothing to see here everyone.

 

[Soapy V]

If you sacks at least 3 coaches and the head coach and the head of Football as per rumours. Who is left?

about 50 staff. You said Everyone like it's clearout

 

[Gethelred]

When I see things in front of me and are told by people who know and I trust involved and I take it as fact. But, that's me

... which is perfectly fine for you to do. I genuinely think that level of trust in those you know is to be admired.

But that does not make it fact.

But to say I am "pretending" in this case is factually wrong

Nope. A fact is something distinct from 'what someone I trust told me', whether you want it to be or not.

 

[yibbida]

about 50 staff

You have it confirmed than all 50 of them will be there next year?

Thats a relief. They have a bigger impact on the team than the coaches and head of Football..

 

[myblueroan]

Even if I had a freaking clue I would ..?

Please help…can’t sleep.

wouldn't post it here.

 

[Opium]

TDKs Instagram story suggests he's jetted off to the Gold Coast.

Way to prove you definitely haven't checked out.

10 day break. Most players would've been given a few days off.

 

[Opium]

Apparently Nick Haynes has been vocal lately about lack of structure and game style. We practice things so much less than they did at GWS

Be great to hear more of his opinion and differences

No suprise. We can all see it. What's interesting listening to the game even the commentators are saying it now.
Nowhere to hide now.

 

[BlueTongue]

... which is an interpretation of events, not the truth. Treating it as though it is the truth is rather silly.

Speaking as an outsider with no input from inside the club, I, like most of us cannot know what goes on internally, and only make observations on what we see happening and draw our own conclusions. What Soapy said (and I don't know the depth of his connection to the club) fits perfectly in my opinion, and I have thought largely the same thing.

My main 2 concerns with Voss are;

- His unwillingness to budge on things despite them clearly not working. Definition of insanity stuff. I'm not talking about our contested ball stuff, that is largely our 1 wood and due to our lack of ball users, but quite clearly in recent weeks we have seen that our game plan is so reliant on maintaining possession, that our players either don't know what to do when the ball is turned over, or are so spent with endless 2-way running, that it's a breeze for most opposition to score against us. We have way too many numbers around the ball carrier, instead making sure other are covered, we persist with 2 or three player tackles, instead of addressing our poor individual attempts at tackling, and we MUST be the worst side in the comp at keeping our feet. Despite cameos from Kemp, Moir, Williams, McGovern - we continue to fall back on Charlie/Harry as our only option to goal instead of lower our eyes and isolating others one out.

- Playing the same players (Fantasia, Fogarty, Evans, Cincotta, even - Acres, McGovern & Cerra, and now Saad), that are taking us no-where (acknowledging he doesn't have a lot to work with), at the expense of developing youth. Sure he's blooded a few, but only those that are plugging holes through injuries to his regular 22 are getting a longer run than one or 2 games. Williams has been playing forward due to our poor smalls, but we recruited him with the intention of playing him as a midfielder, yet all he has done is plug holes at either end.

We need someone who knows how to get the best out of our players, understands their capabilities, and who lets them play to their strengths. This is not Voss.

 

[Beyond Blue]

... which is an interpretation of events, not the truth. Treating it as though it is the truth is rather silly.

Amen. Especially when the same poster said at the start of the season the players and coaches were more aligned than ever on game plan.

 

[Curnowhan]

Your brain is intriguing!
View attachment 2377454

I was going for pretty intelligent horse

 

[LastGanginTown]

Amen. Especially when the same poster said at the start of the season the players and coaches were more aligned than ever on game plan.

Not sure this is reason enough to discredit the poster. I’d assume at the start of every season players/coaches believe in the gameplan. If the players had more say in direction of gameplan this pre-season than not a stretch to suggest they’re more aligned than ever

 

[Soapy V]

Not sure this is reason enough to discredit the poster. I’d assume at the start of every season players/coaches believe in the gameplan. If the players had more say in direction of gameplan this pre-season than not a stretch to suggest they’re more aligned than ever

Yep. Not like things don't change over 6 or 7 months is it?

Some people just have personal agendas. It's that simple

 

[lily of laguna]

So do we know if Vossy is stepping down/going at season's end?

Surely not bringing in a mentor?

I can't see how he keeps his job now.

a Head Coach must be accountable.
On-field skills- backwards
Player buy in- backwards
Player development???
Game development- massive backwards
Instructions to Line Coaches- Massive Fail
Ahead of the curve- lol
Game day tactics - lol
Player potential and positioning - massive fail

So in what area has Voss succeeded?

Public hero - ️
Facing adversity - ️
Flexibility and willingness to adapt - ️
Bringing out the best in playing group - ️
Driving player accountability - ️

It is quite disconcerting not knowing for sure which direction the club will go.

Given its beyond our control we will just have to hope that GW will make the best call.

I

Speaking as an outsider with no input from inside the club, I, like most of us cannot know what goes on internally, and only make observations on what we see happening and draw our own conclusions. What Soapy said (and I don't know the depth of his connection to the club) fits perfectly in my opinion, and I have thought largely the same thing.

My main 2 concerns with Voss are;

- His unwillingness to budge on things despite them clearly not working. Definition of insanity stuff. I'm not talking about our contested ball stuff, that is largely our 1 wood and due to our lack of ball users, but quite clearly in recent weeks we have seen that our game plan is so reliant on maintaining possession, that our players either don't know what to do when the ball is turned over, or are so spent with endless 2-way running, that it's a breeze for most opposition to score against us. We have way too many numbers around the ball carrier, instead making sure other are covered, we persist with 2 or three player tackles, instead of addressing our poor individual attempts at tackling, and we MUST be the worst side in the comp at keeping our feet. Despite cameos from Kemp, Moir, Williams, McGovern - we continue to fall back on Charlie/Harry as our only option to goal instead of lower our eyes and isolating others one out.

- Playing the same players (Fantasia, Fogarty, Evans, Cincotta, even - Acres, McGovern & Cerra, and now Saad), that are taking us no-where (acknowledging he doesn't have a lot to work with), at the expense of developing youth. Sure he's blooded a few, but only those that are plugging holes through injuries to his regular 22 are getting a longer run than one or 2 games. Williams has been playing forward due to our poor smalls, but we recruited him with the intention of playing him as a midfielder, yet all he has done is plug holes at either end.

We need someone who knows how to get the best out of our players, understands their capabilities, and who lets them play to their strengths. This is not Voss.

I think we observe and think things that resonate with what we would like to see happen, both visually and things we hear from others.
That’s why discussion with others is so beneficial cos they may have different bias.

 

[Sector 7G]

Apparently Nick Haynes has been vocal lately about lack of structure and game style. We practice things so much less than they did at GWS

Be great to hear more of his opinion and differences

If Voss manages to keep his job he should sit down with NH and review their games to learn what a modern game plan is and look to incorporate it into what we do and what we need.

GWS should have won the premiership last year if Daniel’s had not taken advantage and just let Hogan kick the sealer from the top of the square

 

[mochacinolatte]

My only wish is that Sam Walsh

18

Sam Walsh

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.1

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.2

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

10.8

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

4.8

5star

gets a full pre-season and gets back to his 2021 form.

 

[mochacinolatte]

Sammy Edmund saying on crunch time our offer to SOS is a 4 year deal closer to $700k than $600k per year.

Seems like a fair deal.

 

[LastGanginTown]

Yep. Not like things don't change over 6 or 7 months is it?

Some people just have personal agendas. It's that simple

Correct. I don’t doubt the buy in and belief in pre-season. Unfortunately players too close to the situation. I’m sure other clubs would have identified the deficiencys in our gameplan at the time based on previous seasons but our club obviously didn’t. Ahhh well

 

[SurreyBlue]

A bit rough to attack ONE poster for posting what he believes he knows is right, yet this is what we all do.
Maybe no-one should share, and that would make threads like Bluemour more acceptable for some, or is it some can’t handle being told the opposite to their thinking?

 

[BlueTongue]

.. Poo in hat?

Your brain is intriguing!
View attachment 2377454

I was going for pretty intelligent horse

Horses for courses I guess

 

[Soapy V]

Correct. I don’t doubt the buy in and belief in pre-season. Unfortunately players too close to the situation. I’m sure other clubs would have identified the deficiencys in our gameplan at the time based on previous seasons but our club obviously didn’t. Ahhh well

100%. Pre season they were all good. Sadly, by even after Richmond game cracks emerged and quickly.

As I said some just have personal agendas and I am not interested

 

[Gethelred]

Speaking as an outsider with no input from inside the club, I, like most of us cannot know what goes on internally, and only make observations on what we see happening and draw our own conclusions. What Soapy said (and I don't know the depth of his connection to the club) fits perfectly in my opinion, and I have thought largely the same thing.

I don't see why you feel the need to defend or support Soapy V. I've not attacked him; I thought we were having a discussion related to his views.

If you agree with his take, awesome.

My main 2 concerns with Voss are;

- His unwillingness to budge on things despite them clearly not working. Definition of insanity stuff. I'm not talking about our contested ball stuff, that is largely our 1 wood and due to our lack of ball users, but quite clearly in recent weeks we have seen that our game plan is so reliant on maintaining possession, that our players either don't know what to do when the ball is turned over, or are so spent with endless 2-way running, that it's a breeze for most opposition to score against us.

When you say 'recent weeks', how recently are you referring?

Here's my issue. Our gameplan at the start of the season - which is not what we're doing now - was to pressure the opp. clearance and disposal to get opposition kicking long and high to 3+ interceptors in Gov, Haynes, Weitering, who will then switch and transfer to Boyd/Saad/Docherty/Acres/Hollands/Newman/Walsh and speed down the other wing, centring if at all possible. Around the ball, we have TDK win the tap down to first receiver - Cripps or Hewitt when Cripps isn't in there - then handball until you find a loose player and burst forward in waves. Get the footy inside front half as quickly, and pressure the ball drop, setting up that intercept defense to mark and return if the opposition clear.

This is a perfectly acceptable gameplan at AFL level. The problem is in cattle and execution.

Now, we're not doing that. Injury forced kids into the ones, and we're now instead trying to work through them, even to the detriment of our overall game. What this means is that we cough up some pretty shitty goals, but the kids we are playing get emphasised; this is why suddenly Hollands, Carroll and co all suddenly seem a bit better.

As with all things, it depends on your point of view and how you see the game. I look at the comp and see Clarkson and possibly Mitchell having clear evidence of being able to change their system from one thing to another. Stubborness is one of the things we look for in a coach in this sport, and if it's a spectrum of it I'm content that Voss sits closer to the willing to change end than other coaches because we've seen this coaches box do it under his watch.

His minute to minute coaching leaves a bit to be desired, but most coaches will 'back their system' ahead of flipping the magnets around.

We have way too many numbers around the ball carrier, instead making sure other are covered, we persist with 2 or three player tackles, instead of addressing our poor individual attempts at tackling, and we MUST be the worst side in the comp at keeping our feet.

This frustrates me to no end!

I can clearly remember one of Corey Durdin's first few games. He and Eddie were sprinting for the same ball 2 on 2, and their opposition was closer. Durdin was closer and was going to tackle, and Eddie unthinking began to close as well; Durds instead pointed, directed Eddie to the second in, so when he tackled and the handpass went to the extra, Eddie pounced on him.

I don't understand why we can't get this either, and the slipping over does my head in. I'd love it if we used a sponsorship or something on training in longer stops.

However.

This is one of the things in which I don't trust my eyes. As Carlton fans, we seem to slip over more than everyone else, get the rub of the green from the umps less than everyone else. We don't know that, and without statistics to prove it I'm loathe to really forcefully advocate for us to waste time amd effort looking for a solution to a problem that might be overblown due to viewer bias.

Despite cameos from Kemp, Moir, Williams, McGovern - we continue to fall back on Charlie/Harry as our only option to goal instead of lower our eyes and isolating others one out.

Hang on a mo.

Kemp's 'cameo' was only a cameo because he had a season ending injury just as he got going. Moir has played what, 3 games this year and is well within his first 10 games. Gov has spent most of the last 5 years as a defender, and is one of the senior blokes who has checked out.

And as if going to our KPF's is the problem! It's why you have KPF in the first place!

No, the problem with it being Charlie/Harry or bust is that we do it so slowly, and that the smalls are too gassed as they've had to gun it from the back 50 to get there to be properly set up around the ball drop.

- Playing the same players (Fantasia, Fogarty, Evans, Cincotta, even - Acres, McGovern & Cerra, and now Saad), that are taking us no-where (acknowledging he doesn't have a lot to work with), at the expense of developing youth. Sure he's blooded a few, but only those that are plugging holes through injuries to his regular 22 are getting a longer run than one or 2 games.

This one's a little silly.

Of all the coaches we've had since ****ing Dennis Pagan, Voss is the most likely to trust a younger player with a major role whilst trying to win the game. It's simply bonkers to me that a criticism leveled at him is an unwillingness to play the kids.

Williams has been playing forward due to our poor smalls, but we recruited him with the intention of playing him as a midfielder, yet all he has done is plug holes at either end.

This is openly contradictory to the idea that Voss doesn't try anything.

Williams has been trialled as the HBF, as a mid, as a wing, as a HFF and as a forward pocket. Gov has been tried as a KPD, an intercepting defender and a third tall. Is Voss inflexible or not?

Jesus. He's in a spot of bother if he both has to try things but if they don't work - or even if they do - he's just plugging holes.

We need someone who knows how to get the best out of our players, understands their capabilities, and who lets them play to their strengths. This is not Voss.

This is opinion, and it's a reasonable enough opinion to have.

 

[Gethelred]

Yep. Not like things don't change over 6 or 7 months is it?

Some people just have personal agendas. It's that simple

'Some people' also prefer it if you tag them when referring to them, and if I have a personal agenda here I'd be open to debating it.

 

[LastGanginTown]

100%. Pre season they were all good. Sadly, by even after Richmond game cracks emegered and quickly.

As I said some just have personal agendas and I am not interested

To yourself and any others willing to share information, no matter how it’s interpreted please keep it coming. Generates great discussion generally and for someone like myself who has completely shutout all forms of footy media for my own sanity, the Baggers Bigfooty forum is my only source of info/entertainment outside of the games themselves!