Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVIII

[Aphrodite]

#BUMP from February


Re: 'Alleged' rumours resurfacing ...

Folks, this is the way things are here.

Posters are responsible for what they post. Moderators can not attest to the accuracy or otherwise of any rumour posted.

Moderators will intervene for a couple of reasons.

1. If a thread is threatening to be derailed because of a post.

2. If invested parties request the removal of material.

None of this draws a conclusion as to the accuracy or otherwise of the original post.

There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.

Also, you need to remember that this thread like all parts of this forum is bound by the rules of poster conduct. If you want to express skepticism towards a rumour that's fine, but having a crack at posters who are contributors to this forum is simply not on and will be acted upon.

Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[DangerousD]

Sorry guys, I want coaches from successful teams and innovators. That excludes anyone from Port. Thanks

Who are you referring to? Hinkley? If its for an assistant coach, sure but if its the footy boss, then define success? Port pivoted years back and traded off some players to hit the draft and then had a period of continued success, backroom staff can only do so much.

 

[DangerousD]

Jon Ralph out there mentioning Florent/Campbell types in a Charlie Curnow trade

Brother those are steak knives players that come along with Gulden and possibly a first round pick as well

Teams will need to do better than that.

 

[DangerousD]

I guess it depends on how far you go back, Swuzzle. That said, I think Surrey’s post was pointed more at Chris Davies.

Sure, so what makes him not an innovator? What makes him unsuccessful?

 

[Sam The Doc]

Teams will need to do better than that.

yeah nothing happens. no need for a firesale either for the curnow type contracts

 

[Ford Fairlane]

The funny thing is, some on the Port board think I’m CD

He’s a sharp operator who’d inject some accountability into our setup. Unlike our lot, he doesn’t bow to sacred cows - he was the driver who pushed Chad Cornes out of the club and called Wingard’s bluff to walk.

Only the true messiah denies his divinity ok, leaving now

 

[tarczonandjane]

Sure, so what makes him not an innovator? What makes him unsuccessful?

I guess I made that point in my original post. I don’t see Port Adelaide as a successful club. Or they are not in that echelon of Brisbane, Geelong, Hawthorn, etc.

 

[JJBagger]

I guess I made that point in my original post. I don’t see Port Adelaide as a successful club. Or they are not in that echelon of Brisbane, Geelong, Hawthorn, etc.

So making 3 prelims in 5 years isn’t successful? They’ve consistently been up the top for half a decade

 

[Benaly28]

Teams will need to do better than that.

The deal would start with Gulden,first rounder and then whatever players would suit us.

 

[DangerousD]

I guess I made that point in my original post. I don’t see Port Adelaide as a successful club. Or they are not in that echelon of Brisbane, Geelong, Hawthorn, etc.

If you’re basing your decision on winning premierships, but the head of football doesnt draft the players or develop them do they? Do they have any say whether the coach goes or stays? Port have been up the top for quite a while and i agree with a few in saying, i dont think they had the list to win a flag.

 

[DangerousD]

The deal would start with Gulden,first rounder and then whatever players would suit us.

Well I disagree with you there, Gulden for me would be a straight swap, no need for anything else. Ill take the hard running, smooth moving, elite tank, top shelf disposal, ball winning young mid who can kick a goal for the next 9 years over Charlie.

 

[tarczonandjane]

So making 3 prelims in 5 years isn’t successful? They’ve consistently been up the top for half a decade

Not a success in my eyes. And sure… I regularly hear that it’s all luck and all you can do is make a prelim and go from there. I accept there is that view. My view is different.

Turning a losing culture around is historically the hardest trick in football. I think we need premiership experience on board. I realise that is not a view everyone holds. But I still don’t have Port Adelaide ant a level of esteem that I would hold other clubs in terms of success.

You are more than welcome to have prelims as your measure of success, JJ. But I’m not there.

 

[tarczonandjane]

If you’re basing your decision on winning premierships, but the head of football doesnt draft the players or develop them do they? Do they have any say whether the coach goes or stays? Port have been up the top for quite a while and i agree with a few in saying, i dont think they had the list to win a flag.

For where we are at, I just don’t think anything beats the experience of someone who has won a flag. They know what it takes. Of course it is a team effort. But for mine, someone who doesn’t have that experience will have question marks over them. There are five clubs in the league who have proved consistent in mastering success this century. That gives us a substantial potential recruiting pool.

 

[CrippaTheGoat9]

 

[DangerousD]

For where we are at, I just don’t think anything beats the experience of someone who has won a flag. They know what it takes. Of course it is a team effort. But for mine, someone who doesn’t have that experience will have question marks over them. There are five clubs in the league who have proved consistent in mastering success this century. That gives us a substantial potential recruiting pool.

Our coaching group is full of premiership winners, we now have a CEO who’s a premiership winner, i like the idea of getting in players who’ve won a flag and recruiting coaches from premiership winning sides, but admin roles? They are managers.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Teams will need to do better than that.

Will they? A very talented, but injury prone 29 yo Chuck ain’t netting us a Gulden

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

For where we are at, I just don’t think anything beats the experience of someone who has won a flag. They know what it takes. Of course it is a team effort. But for mine, someone who doesn’t have that experience will have question marks over them. There are five clubs in the league who have proved consistent in mastering success this century. That gives us a substantial potential recruiting pool.

They know what it takes with the talent/personalities they had on that particular team. While it’s obviously helpful, not sure it’s as transferable as many seem to assume.

 

[tarczonandjane]

Our coaching group is full of premiership winners, we now have a CEO who’s a premiership winner, i like the idea of getting in players who’ve won a flag and recruiting coaches from premiership winning sides, but admin roles? They are managers.

For mine, the most important manager this century has been Neale Balm. The most important manager in our history was Wes Lofts. I think the premiership experience of both of those guys was essential to what they achieved.

Again, others such as yourself are absolutely entitled to hold different views on this one. But my opinion is we need premiership experience wherever we can.

 

[gbatman]

For mine, the most important manager this century has been Neale Balm. The most important manager in our history was Wes Lofts. I think the premiership experience of both of those guys was essential to what they achieved.

Again, others such as yourself are absolutely entitled to hold different views on this one. But my opinion is we need premiership experience wherever we can.

It's about having the vision of what a premiership winning football department, fitness base, playing list, player quality, recruiting quality, coaching group, player management etc looks like and setting those standards.

If you haven't seen this then you may or may not set these standards.

There are 17 other clubs in the game desperate to change and improve their standards and get ahead by doing this and with their training and gameplan.

We have been behind a lot of them for 30 years and have been chasing tail ever since.

Even as far back as 2000, our last genuinely good team. We weren't as fit as Essendon (Where Andrew Russell was setting new standards) and we weren't tactically quite as good. Since then we have fallen behind. Last team to employ a list manager for crying out loud. Always undre resourced in recruitement. Voss horribly undreresourced tactically, we have been going to drafts with horrible direction under him and recruited a lot of players with non-negotiable weaknesses like pace and kicking. Tactically behind in years. Our vision for the modern game being one of the worst in the game which has taken our list back at a great rate.

It would be nice for Carlton to be what it was at times in the 90's and 80's, to quote our slogan from that era, "The Best In the Business", and not "lost in the modern game".

If we want to be a front runner, we put the best people in position off the field and they will make it happen.

Going back to what I mentioned at the start. Do we have the people at the club who can recognise what the best people look like? I hope that is what Graeme Wright is, able to identify elite talent on and off the field. Someone who knows what premiership quality off field people look like.

Neale Balm has the midas touch. His ability to identify elite talent off fieald was excellent.

 

[BigFrizz36]

It's about having the vision of what a premiership winning football department, fitness base, playing list, player quality, recruiting quality, coaching group, player management etc looks like and setting those standards.

If you haven't seen this then you may or may not set these standards.

There are 17 other clubs in the game desperate to change and improve their standards and get ahead by doing this and with their training and gameplan.

We have been behind a lot of them for 30 years and have been chasing tail ever since.

Even as far back as 2000, our last genuinely good team. We weren't as fit as Essendon (Where Andrew Russell was setting new standards) and we weren't tactically quite as good. Since then we have fallen behind. Last team to employ a list manager for crying out loud. Always undre resourced in recruitement. Voss horribly undreresourced tactically, we have been going to drafts with horrible direction under him and recruited a lot of players with non-negotiable weaknesses like pace and kicking. Tactically behind in years. Our vision for the modern game being one of the worst in the game which has taken our list back at a great rate.

It would be nice for Carlton to be what it was at times in the 90's and 80's, to quote our slogan from that era, "The Best In the Business", and not "lost in the modern game".

If we want to be a front runner, we put the best people in position off the field and they will make it happen.

Going back to what I mentioned at the start. Do we have the people at the club who can recognise what the best people look like? I hope that is what Graeme Wright is, able to identify elite talent on and off the field. Someone who knows what premiership quality off field people look like.

Neale Balm has the midas touch. His ability to identify elite talent off fieald was excellent.

Neale Balme coached Melbourne for five years with no success and went at just over a 40% win rate. Hardly the Midas touch.
It's about finding the right people and putting them in the right roles. That's (eventually) what happened with Balme.

 

[yibbida]

There are five clubs in the league who have proved consistent in mastering success this century

which 5 clubs would they be?

How many people are still at the same club they were between 2000 and 2010? 2010 was 15 years ago!

 

[gbatman]

Neale Balme coached Melbourne for five years with no success and went at just over a 40% win rate. Hardly the Midas touch.
It's about finding the right people and putting them in the right roles. That's (eventually) what happened with Balme.

I think his expierence as a coach made him a really good footy manager. Probably had a good idea what he needed at Melbourne and could not get it.

Putting a football department together is not easy. Good people have 17 other clubs wanting them.

I think one thing Wright has done right is reappointing Voss. Carlton are a big club, wealthy club (again) and we have a list that is not too bad. We carry a burden of being a coaching grave yard and being unsupporting of coaches. We may have done a lot to repair that with this move.

It's a move that may make those people who have 18 clubs wanting their services consider us and take us seriously. Having Wright at the club may also support this.

It's about making people want to be here again. So hopefully we have moved up the ladder quite a lot in terms of being a club you want to be at. Like Collingwood, Richmond and Geelong have been.

Balme had a way of getting people and perhaps the clubs he ended up at greatly assisted in that.

 

[BlueLocke]

Always good to get people with proven experience in what it takes to achieve success/a premiership.

Just as important to have people who are yet to achieve it but leave no stone unturned in their approach.

Need a mix.

 

[xDQ82x]

Jack not going to dogs.

Staying is back in the realms of possibility.

 

[Schoonerman]

Jack not going to dogs.

Staying is back in the realms of possibility.

I thought the Pies were the frontrunners??

 

[xDQ82x]

I thought the Pies were the frontrunners??

They are, but I saw some talk about dogs on here somewhere, so I was having a convo and checked if they were a potential.