List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Twomey wrote a good article on the topic a few months ago actually. I didnt see much discussion but it's nice to hear about how clubs are adapting how they run to accommodate players needs. In the past, some very talented players might have been lost to the game because of how rigid different football programs were run.

How AFL clubs are adapting to neurodivergent players

Anxiety, ADHD, learning disorders, mental ill-health and more. Cal Twomey looks at how clubs and the AFL are adapting to an era where neurodivergence is commonplace

www.afl.com.au

This was the situation that caused the confusion between Ross & Darcy Wilson re: being dropped to the VFL.

 

[gringo2011]

Anyone find it hilarious how much opposition supporters seem to rate our existing list after calling us trash throughout the year. "why would they piss their players off"

By all accounts, every club around the league seems to think that Romar was a combination of Dean Cox and Max Gawn this year and that Windhager is going to finish top 5 in the brownlow. (Love them both obvs)

I mean, I've been on the North trade board recently and you could be forgiven for thinking that it was the saints one

We do look a lot better on paper than actual output these days.

A grade or above Wilkie, Sinclair, Nas, Hall, Marshall. Maybe TDK and Higgins. King if he ever plays.

B grade- Ryan, Jack Silvagni, Steele, Hill, Wood, Owens, Windhager, Wilson, Phillipou, Sharman, Caminiti, Garcia. Potentially B grade Hastie, Tauru, Keeler, Travaglia, Dodson, LOC, Collard, Dow, Howard, Stocker, Butler.

 

[nikkig98]

If we could only have 1 of CMac or Flanders, who would everyone prefer?

CMac is only 21, and been developed through that Box Hill System which i rate highly. Also, the obvious saints ties through the NGA that we were meant to have as well.

Anyone who wants an idea of his upside, I would recommend watching his game against GWS in round 3. BOG for them IMO and was unbelievable against a strong GWS midfield.

 

[stavro#4]

The Saints’ path to poaching Jack Silvagni

1

Jack Silvagni

Age

27

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

MG

176.9

3star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

MG

91.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

MG

131.4

3star

from the Blues has been revealed, and the mastermind was not Stephen Silvagni, as Christian Petracca

5

Christian Petracca

Age

29

Ht

187cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.4

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

2.5

4star

D

24.4

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.5

3star

T

3.6

4star

CL

3.4

4star

D

19.0

5star

K

7.8

3star

HB

11.2

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.0

4star

opens up about his future at the Demons.
Fresh details have emerged of the club’s determination to keep Stephen at arms length from the process given the conflict of interest with his son Jack.

It is sure to be one of the storylines of the trade period given Stephen’s disdain for the Blues and Jack’s hefty new deal.

It is understood head of talent and acquisition Graeme Allan drove the signing in concert with coach Ross Lyon, with Allan even contacting Jack directly instead of pursuing the interest through his management firm.

The Pies and Dogs initially thought they held the whip hand but Allan had been in contact with Jack about the club’s potential interest in the background.

 

[gringo2011]

If you want an objective view of our list, look at all the opposition teams chasing our players.

Under Richo we barely had a player we wanted let alone players anyone else might want.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Imagine--just for a second--if Wilson makes that GWS performance the norm going forward

 

[thekizzler]

I think Cooper will be fine playing forward if we start playing consistently better footy as a team.

While I have no doubt Sharman will benefit from a better team and getting a lesser defender, I've always wondered why he is given more slack from supporters regarding his performances than other players.

I'm a fan - but want to see way more consistently.

While some fans seem to believe it's bad delivery and structure as to why he isn't consistent, for me, I see it as his work-rate, application, intent to defend when the ball turns over - his general engagement in the game.

If he improves those three factors, he could be an absolute bonafide gun - that's what I want.

 

[tommo7]

I think Camma can be a valuable asset if played forward. He would have learnt a lot playing on some of the best forwards, and if Roma goes he has the ability be a handy second ruck while TDK rests.

 

[bergholt]

Phil Davis on Saints list build SEN 10/9

WTF is Phil Davis doing? Assessing the situation clearly, taking into account constraints, and in the context of a longer term strategy? He'll never have a career in the footy media doing that.

 

[akaifu]

If we could only have 1 of CMac or Flanders, who would everyone prefer?

Cmac over Flanders for mine

One is more a classy impact player who can contribute in a wider range of ways, while the other is an accumulator at contest. Flanders probably a bit more proven given his patch of form last year but Cmack showed early this year that he is capable of very top-quality AFL performances

With us already having Garcia and Boxshall as those inside clearance winners, and probably Travaglia, I think Cmac complements them more alongside Nas and Pou as the guys who can change the game with their disposals

 

[hayes]

While I have no doubt Sharman will benefit from a better team and getting a lesser defender, I've always wondered why he is given more slack from supporters regarding his performances than other players.

I'm a fan - but want to see way more consistently.

While some fans seem to believe it's bad delivery and structure as to why he isn't consistent, for me, I see it as his work-rate, application, intent to defend when the ball turns over - his general engagement in the game.

If he improves those three factors, he could be an absolute bonafide gun - that's what I want.

I think what he did this year was very good considering he was getting the best defender every week. He basically carried the forward line with the odd cameo from a struggling Mason Wood and an inexperienced Keeler. If he ever gets to play as the number 2 he’ll flourish IMO.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

With the Merret news, maybe something along the lines of the following could work:

Hawks out: CMac, 8, 26
Hawks in: Merrett

Essendon out: Merrett,
Essendon in: 7, 8

Stk in: CMac, 26
Stk out: 7

We could then potentially flip 26 to West Coast for Ryan, or if we trade Marshall, package it with that pick for Flanders?

 

[jwikked]

WTF is Phil Davis doing? Assessing the situation clearly, taking into account constraints, and in the context of a longer term strategy? He'll never have a career in the footy media doing that.

He will, he has glasses and presumably a pony tail

 

[SainterinSydney]

With the Merret news, maybe something along the lines of the following could work:

Hawks out: CMac, 8, 26
Hawks in: Merrett

Essendon out: Merrett,
Essendon in: 7, 8

Stk in: CMac, 26
Stk out: 7

We could then potentially flip 26 to West Coast for Ryan, or if we trade Marshall, package it with that pick for Flanders?

Turning 7 into Cmac and Ryan would be great.

 

[thekizzler]

Lyon actively scouted Jack at multiple games with the club using its new analytics formula to consider his worth on a deal of five years at up to $850,000.

It would be especially bloody-minded and St Kilda’s own recruiter Simon Dalrymple has already made an exceptional start to his time picking the eyes out of the draft for the Saints without having to keep the bastards honest.

These two parts interested me the most.

So we are using a possibly using a Moneyball style strategy to get better, with the drafts being so compromised in coming years.

And the second thing, surely that's a typo from Ralph? Lol. Wtf?

 

[phantom13]

While I have no doubt Sharman will benefit from a better team and getting a lesser defender, I've always wondered why he is given more slack from supporters regarding his performances than other players.

I'm a fan - but want to see way more consistently.

While some fans seem to believe it's bad delivery and structure as to why he isn't consistent, for me, I see it as his work-rate, application, intent to defend when the ball turns over - his general engagement in the game.

If he improves those three factors, he could be an absolute bonafide gun - that's what I want.

I probably cut him a massive amount of slack cause hes a genuine third tall playing as a first.

 

[stavro#4]

These two parts interested me the most.

So we are using a possibly using a Moneyball style strategy to get better, with the drafts being so compromised in coming years.

And the second thing, surely that's a typo from Ralph? Lol. Wtf?

All legit

 

[AFaiL]

The Saints’ path to poaching Jack Silvagni from the Blues has been revealed, and the mastermind was not Stephen Silvagni, as Christian Petracca opens up about his future at the Demons.
Fresh details have emerged of the club’s determination to keep Stephen at arms length from the process given the conflict of interest with his son Jack.

It is sure to be one of the storylines of the trade period given Stephen’s disdain for the Blues and Jack’s hefty new deal.

It is understood head of talent and acquisition Graeme Allan drove the signing in concert with coach Ross Lyon, with Allan even contacting Jack directly instead of pursuing the interest through his management firm.

The Pies and Dogs initially thought they held the whip hand but Allan had been in contact with Jack about the club’s potential interest in the background.

It meant Stephen didn’t have to get involved through his son’s management or become conflicted by holding back any information to TGI while discussing other players from that stable.

Lyon actively scouted Jack at multiple games with the club using its new analytics formula to consider his worth on a deal of five years at up to $850,000.

Club sources say that the fixed term will also mean that Jack does not have to get involved in contracting his son or offering him bonuses, which will lessen the difficulty in dealing with Jack.

At the final 30 minute meeting to consider Jack’s suitability, Stephen again left the room and was not involved in the discussion.

Said one insider: “People are going to speculate but we couldn’t have been more genuine with him not being involved. I have never seen anyone dismiss themselves from a meeting more quickly. He is a heck of a player if we can keep him fit.”

But it will still be a tricky deal to navigate given list boss Stephen is also responsible for retaining the club’s stars.

Callum Wilkie is not interested in the Dogs’ million dollar a year offer but would like a new contract which reflects his worth.

The Herald Sun revealed his bemusement at some of the deals being bandied around, but if his management approaches Stephen for an increased deal the huge deal offered to his son has to be a complicating factor in any dealings.

St Kilda is totally unfussed by the potential conflict and believes it has to be aggressive in the market place and bruise rival egos to secure star talent.

While Stephen might not have been involved in his son’s recruitment he and Allan are the most tight-knit team in footy so there are no secrets between them about trade targets.

Rival list bosses remain convinced that Stephen is happy to raid Carlton to weaken the Blues list given the club legend refuses to return to the club in any official capacity.

It was reported this week the Saints, which have a draft pick before Carlton, might try to bid on Blues father-son Harry Dean before Carlton to force them to pay a higher price.

But it is hard to see how St Kilda could justify that given St Kilda has so many key backs _ Wilkie, Silvagni, Dougal Howard, Leek Aleer and Anthony Caminiti.

It would be especially bloody-minded and St Kilda’s own recruiter Simon Dalrymple has already made an exceptional start to his time picking the eyes out of the draft for the Saints without having to keep the bastards honest.

Absolutely love it

 

[Sully111]

While I have no doubt Sharman will benefit from a better team and getting a lesser defender, I've always wondered why he is given more slack from supporters regarding his performances than other players.

I'm a fan - but want to see way more consistently.

While some fans seem to believe it's bad delivery and structure as to why he isn't consistent, for me, I see it as his work-rate, application, intent to defend when the ball turns over - his general engagement in the game.

If he improves those three factors, he could be an absolute bonafide gun - that's what I want.

I think our ball use has been a shambles for large parts of games. I think that has affected Sharman's performances more than anything.

I just want to see him left in the forward line... hopefully with a fit King next to him.

 

[nikkig98]

We do look a lot better on paper than actual output these days.

A grade or above Wilkie, Sinclair, Nas, Hall, Marshall. Maybe TDK and Higgins. King if he ever plays.

B grade- Ryan, Jack Silvagni, Steele, Hill, Wood, Owens, Windhager, Wilson, Phillipou, Sharman, Caminiti, Garcia. Potentially B grade Hastie, Tauru, Keeler, Travaglia, Dodson, LOC, Collard, Dow, Howard, Stocker, Butler.

Few players from B that might be A soon, but have to agree with this assessment.
Another thing is that when you list them like this and I visualise the player as I read them, so many of them are so undersize and skinny compared to some other teams such as Crows and Giants.

Think you can make up for some skill shortcomings in the contest with some muscle so i hope theres a heavy focus on that this offseason.

 

[Joffaboy]

Given Caminti does have a sibling who has autism and extra developmental challenges associated with it, it's probably best to stay away from joking about it with regards to him. Even if no harm was intended in the topic.

Not going to start an argument, but a few sandwiches short of a picnic, doesn't mean autism. Worst case it means they are not intellectually gifted. Autism has nothing to do with intellect.
Have a daughter who has autism and she is a lawyer, is good at her job, just lacks some social skills.
Anyway, it was about Hammers footy iq, nothing more.

 

[phantom13]

The Saints’ path to poaching Jack Silvagni from the Blues has been revealed, and the mastermind was not Stephen Silvagni, as Christian Petracca opens up about his future at the Demons.
Fresh details have emerged of the club’s determination to keep Stephen at arms length from the process given the conflict of interest with his son Jack.

It is sure to be one of the storylines of the trade period given Stephen’s disdain for the Blues and Jack’s hefty new deal.

It is understood head of talent and acquisition Graeme Allan drove the signing in concert with coach Ross Lyon, with Allan even contacting Jack directly instead of pursuing the interest through his management firm.

The Pies and Dogs initially thought they held the whip hand but Allan had been in contact with Jack about the club’s potential interest in the background.

It meant Stephen didn’t have to get involved through his son’s management or become conflicted by holding back any information to TGI while discussing other players from that stable.

Lyon actively scouted Jack at multiple games with the club using its new analytics formula to consider his worth on a deal of five years at up to $850,000.

Club sources say that the fixed term will also mean that Jack does not have to get involved in contracting his son or offering him bonuses, which will lessen the difficulty in dealing with Jack.

At the final 30 minute meeting to consider Jack’s suitability, Stephen again left the room and was not involved in the discussion.

Said one insider: “People are going to speculate but we couldn’t have been more genuine with him not being involved. I have never seen anyone dismiss themselves from a meeting more quickly. He is a heck of a player if we can keep him fit.”

But it will still be a tricky deal to navigate given list boss Stephen is also responsible for retaining the club’s stars.

Callum Wilkie is not interested in the Dogs’ million dollar a year offer but would like a new contract which reflects his worth.

The Herald Sun revealed his bemusement at some of the deals being bandied around, but if his management approaches Stephen for an increased deal the huge deal offered to his son has to be a complicating factor in any dealings.

St Kilda is totally unfussed by the potential conflict and believes it has to be aggressive in the market place and bruise rival egos to secure star talent.

While Stephen might not have been involved in his son’s recruitment he and Allan are the most tight-knit team in footy so there are no secrets between them about trade targets.

Rival list bosses remain convinced that Stephen is happy to raid Carlton to weaken the Blues list given the club legend refuses to return to the club in any official capacity.

It was reported this week the Saints, which have a draft pick before Carlton, might try to bid on Blues father-son Harry Dean before Carlton to force them to pay a higher price.

But it is hard to see how St Kilda could justify that given St Kilda has so many key backs _ Wilkie, Silvagni, Dougal Howard, Leek Aleer and Anthony Caminiti.

It would be especially bloody-minded and St Kilda’s own recruiter Simon Dalrymple has already made an exceptional start to his time picking the eyes out of the draft for the Saints without having to keep the bastards honest.

Like the overall sentiment of the artciel (although i dont love the ongoing "SOS wants to screw over the blues" thing) but i dont believe much of the seperation of Jack and SOS stuff.

Little bit of the "doth protest too much" for mine.

 

[thekizzler]

I think what he did this year was very good considering he was getting the best defender every week. He basically carried the forward line with the odd cameo from a struggling Mason Wood and an inexperienced Keeler. If he ever gets to play as the number 2 he’ll flourish IMO.

That's a fair assessment - he had some very good games - no doubt.

Also, some stinkers as well though. It would be nice to narrow the gap between his best and worst.

Could find he gets 3rd or 4th defender going forwards if Marshall and Caminiti are around.

Higgins also needs a quality defender too. As does Ryan, tbh.

 

[gringo2011]

agree sharman is either a bust or turning the game on its head. its so wildly inconsistent during the 4 qtrs.

maybe sharman for caminiti?

Playing as a the main forward target when you're a third tall isn't ideal. He should improve with King back. So should Owens.

 

[thekizzler]

All legit

Yeah I have a subscription and I read it myself haha.

Was shocked.