Roast The Brownlow has no credibility left

[RCAB]

Name one award (league wide or club) that includes finals....

The only one I can think of... Is the Golden Fist on Bounce

Three of the most prestigious awards/medals include finals, then you have the Gary Ayres award that only includes finals.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Three of the most prestigious awards/medals include finals, then you have the Gary Ayres award that only includes finals.

AFLPA Award has already been awarded

Coaches Association Award has already been awarded

Which awards (outside the Brownlow) are more prestigious than that?

Gary Ayres award is comparing apples and oranges

 

[RCAB]

AFLPA Award has already been awarded

Coaches Association Award has already been awarded

Which awards (outside the Brownlow) are more prestigious than that?

Gary Ayres award is comparing apples and oranges

Awards/medals more prestigious or sought after..

Norm Smith
Premiership Medal
Best and Fairest of your club

Notice how these are awarded after the season is over.

Individual awards like the Ballon d'Or in soccer are just as sought after as team success. When plays receive this award they're actually proud to receive it, and it's voted by all the top journalists.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Geez they are actually talking about giving out 2nd and 3rd place awards now.

The power of Daicos.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Awards/medals more prestigious or sought after..

Norm Smith
Premiership Medal
Best and Fairest of your club

Notice how these are awarded after the season is over.

Individual awards like the Ballon d'Or in soccer are just as sought after as team success. When plays receive this award they're actually proud to receive it, and it's voted by all the top journalists.

The first 2 have no bearing on why the Brownlow may or may not lack credibility (which was your original point). One is an award for one single game, that only 46 players in the entire competition have a chance of winning. The second is actually a team "award"

It may be different now, but some teams used to not include finals in their best and fairest (they would have a separate best finals player).

Anyone who thinks an individual award like the Ballon d'Or is as important as winning a championship with their team has their priorities wrong...

None of what you have said does anything to support the original point you thought you were making

 

[RCAB]

The first 2 have no bearing on why the Brownlow may or may not lack credibility (which was your original point). One is an award for one single game, that only 46 players in the entire competition have a chance of winning. The second is actually a team "award"

It may be different now, but some teams used to not include finals in their best and fairest (they would have a separate best finals player).

Anyone who thinks an individual award like the Ballon d'Or is as important as winning a championship with their team has their priorities wrong...

None of what you have said does anything to support the original point you thought you were making

You’re twisting what I said.

I never claimed the Norm Smith or a Premiership are “like the Brownlow.” The point is prestige. Players care about those medals more than a Brownlow because they actually mean something.

Same with the Ballon d’Or comparison... not saying it’s bigger than a World Cup, but it’s not some throwaway trinket either. Players celebrate it and it sits alongside their team honours as part of their legacy.

The Brownlow’s credibility is shaky because the awards AFL players truly value are the ones tied to finals, clubs, or genuine recognition, not 3-2-1 votes from umps who didn’t even see half the game.

 

[Carn The Berries]

It never had any credibility to begin with:

• Doesn't include the most important part of the season, the finals
• Uses an arbitrary and rigid 321 voting system
• Umpires have enough on their plate without having to worry about who are the best players in the game (NWM not getting BOG is just a long line of numerous mistakes they've made over the years)
• Umpires aren't watching every player or every part of the game, in fact... they're umpiring. A random fan in the stands probably has a better view of what's happening.

Requoting what you said... Which was that the Brownlow lacks credibility because it ignores finals.

Nothing has been twisted.

 

[RCAB]

Hawks beat the Dees by 36 points, you can argue whether Gawn deserve the 3, but how did Petracca get 2 votes

Gunston 7 goals
Moore 32 possies 2 goals 9 marks

Petracca was 14th for SC pts and 12th for DT pts

Top 3 SuperCoach points for the game

Gunston 157
Gawn 145
Moore 140

Petracca 85

Clearances more important than goals. (Despite this year the team that wins the clearance loss more often than not.) Losing is more important = more Dumblow votes.

 

[RCAB]

Requoting what you said... Which was that the Brownlow lacks credibility because it ignores finals.

Nothing has been twisted.

You’re narrowing it down to one line.

I didn’t say “finals is the only reason.” I said it’s one reason, and a pretty big one, but not the whole point. The credibility problem is the whole thing is flawed to begin with. No finals, rigid 3-2-1, umps with the worst vantage point, constant howlers.

Take any one of those flaws in isolation and maybe you can shrug but as soon as you put them together then the award was always flawed do begin with.

 

[SSSSSS]

No they dont.

Tom mitchell, priddis, cotchin, wines. Not incredible players. Add in cooney and woewodin from the decade before.

Irony with ablett at geelong is that he won it in probably his worst season from 2007-11.

Tom Mitchell was bloody good before his broken leg.

I think his form after that horrific injury has tainted his legacy.

He was a fantastic ball pig, clearance beast who could burst out of stoppage and a two way running midfielder before his injury. After his leg break he really became a one paced plodder, didn't have the pace or power to get on the outside and relied on hack kicking the ball.

 

[GWT6]

I've heard that the AFL is going to drop the "Welcome to Country" before all games, and replace it with the traditional "Congratulations to Nick Daicos"

 

[RCAB]

I've heard that the AFL is going to drop the "Welcome to Country" before all games, and replace it with the traditional "Congratulations to Nick Daicos"

Do both offend you?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I think a good move that would improve the award, but also preserve the history, would be to include an off-field advisor in the voting process.

The umpires still do it, but one league-appointed advisor is at the game and has the advantage of being able to concentrate on the individual performances, look at stats, etc etc from the sidelines.

Then they sit in with the umpires on the voting process and can raise opinions, good performers, advice and things they think the umpires might be missing.

It's simply acknowledging that the game is way faster and more complicated than it used to be, so it gives the umpires a hand.

The umpires do miss things but I don't think it's intentional, they just have heaps on their plate.

Ultimately it's still the umpires' call, but they get a chop-out and it might avoid some of the shockers and help them give a wider perspective than just a few midfielders under their nose.

We help them out with decision reviews, surely they can have a helping hand with this too.

It's a one-day a week job for nine people so wouldn't be that expensive - you'd just rotate them around which clubs they do to avoid too much bias. Ex coaches might be a good option.

 

[RCAB]

I think a good move that would improve the award, but also preserve the history, would be to include an off-field advisor in the voting process.

The umpires still do it, but one league-appointed advisor is at the game and has the advantage of being able to concentrate on the individual performances, look at stats, etc etc from the sidelines.

Then they sit in with the umpires on the voting process and can raise opinions, good performers, advice and things they think the umpires might be missing.

It's simply acknowledging that the game is way faster and more complicated than it used to be, so it gives the umpires a hand.

The umpires do miss things but I don't think it's intentional, they just have heaps on their plate.

Ultimately it's still the umpires' call, but they get a chop-out and it might avoid some of the shockers and help them give a wider perspective than just a few midfielders under their nose.

We help them out with decision reviews, surely they can have a helping hand with this too.

It's a one-day a week job for nine people so wouldn't be that expensive - you'd just rotate them around which clubs they do to avoid too much bias. Ex coaches might be a good option.

It's called champion data. Based on that Max Gawn would've done this year.

 

[Mr Meow]

I don't have bits of media I can just pull for you over decades, but I just told you I've heard it numerous times from AFL umpires and local umpires, that it's not something they think about during the game and would rather not have to do it.

If you still think that I'm liying or misinterpreted it greatly than our conversation is done.

No proof then. You demand big reports when others make claims but of course would never provided that yourself.

 

[flamethrower]

The biggest issue with the Brownlow is not who votes on it...

It is the media and the way they have elevated it into the DeFacto "Player of the Year". This has put it on a pedestal above the AFLPA MVP, AFLCA Coaches Award and the various media outlet player of the year awards.

All awards have weaknesses - coaches are biased towards their own players (one coach in particular only gave his own players votes towards the end of the season when they were a chance to win - do your own research if you want to know who), the player's award is a popularity vote that can be manipulated against players from other teams if they are a threat to win the award instead of a player of their own, and the media all have team and individual favorites.

Solution - stop the Brownlow telecast and just announce the winner on Tic Toc.

Besides we play to win premierships - not individual awards.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Rowell is a great player contested beast who wouldn't want him at a stoppage, look at the results since 2013 after Ablett Jr and inside mids have won it, gone from being a midfielders award to an inside mids award. It is not perfect but maybe in 10 years it will change and it could be a rucks award who knows. I think we have to realise it is not best player in comp necessarily, if it was surely Bont would have had to have won it once not to mention Buddy at his peak.

yeah, that's the problem

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Which umpires have said they don't care about giving votes?

I used to be with the AFL umpiring program at the junior level, and spoke with AFL level umpires.

They don't want it and it is after thought to them.

The AFL should have changed the system decades ago.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

The Brownlow has always been a bit dodgy, that's part of the fun

It's the umpire's award, change that and it dies

Leave it as it is

 

[carndapies]

I can see the AFL making significant changes to the Brownlow Medal in the coming years. Adjustments to the rules and voting process seem inevitable as the game evolves and with that will come a rebranding of the award itself. If current trends continue, don’t be surprised if the Brownlow eventually gives way to the Daicos Medal.

 

[Toump Ass]

Dickhead Dillon smoking some of SNOOP DOGG's marijuanas?!!?

AFL should just make a whole new award called "How ****in' good is Nick Daicos, really?" and award it to the player that's most like Nick Daicos at the end of every round.

 

[Seeds]

Who says Nick Daicos was the most worthy winner of the Brownlow? Certainly not the umpires.
Was it the other awards?
The other voting systems?

Seriously - every approach to selecting the best player will have different outcomes.

For different reasons there could be 5-10 players who could be deemed the best player of 2025, because being the best means so many things.

I personally thought Noah Anderson was the best player of the year in terms of consistency. But if he doesn't get enoguh BOGs according to the umpires he's not going to win it. And that's ok. I'm fine with my opinion being different to the umpires.

Its not the 3-2-1 approach thats wrong (Although there are better systems in this day and age). Its whose voting for it that makes it wrong. A bunch of people who arent paying attention to who is playing well. They clearly gave the wrong votes in many games cos they simply arent paying sufficient attention. And justifiably so.

 

[Seeds]

Dickhead Dillon smoking some of SNOOP DOGG's marijuanas?!!?

AFL should just make a whole new award called "How ****in' good is Nick Daicos, really?" and award it to the player that's most like Nick Daicos at the end of every round.

How does that fix the problem after daicos retires or if daicos has non elite seasons?


This is not a new problem. Its always been there. Ablett and carey not only never won the award they never even got close. Lockett won it once. In probably his 6th best season.

I could name about ten times since when the winner was clearly wrong. I.e. not even in the handful of possible likely winners.

 

[RCAB]

How does that fix the problem after daicos retires or if daicos has non elite seasons?


This is not a new problem. Its always been there. Ablett and carey not only never won the award they never even got close. Lockett won it once. In probably his 6th best season.

I could name about ten times since when the winner was clearly wrong. I.e. not even in the handful of possible likely winners.

The problem is people have short memories. Almost half the Brownlow winners were never the best player that year. But because it’s been around for 100+ years, people just assume it’s prestigious with a few quirks. It’s not quirks, it’s the whole thing.

 

[Seeds]

Tom Mitchell was bloody good before his broken leg.

I think his form after that horrific injury has tainted his legacy.

He was a fantastic ball pig, clearance beast who could burst out of stoppage and a two way running midfielder before his injury. After his leg break he really became a one paced plodder, didn't have the pace or power to get on the outside and relied on hack kicking the ball.

Yeah he was an excellent player. But he wasnt best player in the season category. Unless ofcourse you only look at ball pig clearances players. And thats the effing problem.