Opinion Will Brisbane’s win finally spell the end of the Academies?

[ibd77]

Meh instead of crying over spilt milk, just beat those teams!! Brisbane lost many times this season, they're premiers but not undefeated.....

You're right, it's a defeatest attitude but it's hard to ignore the talent being stacked up in the northern states at very little cost to their draft prospects.

Meanwhile our future FS and NGA players are in doubt for eligibility under any revision in rules.

 

[JasRulz63]

Why does QLD even have an academy?

They have more juniors playing footy than SA, WA and Geelong do.

The difference on Grand Final day was that the late picks draftees Geelong made fine AFL players cannot contend with early first round level talents that Brisbane had access for free.

Early first round talents from our academy like pick 25, 42 and 61? Right now our academy has produced as many top 20 picks as Port's NGA academy.

 

[Elixuh]

Why does QLD even have an academy?

They have more juniors playing footy than SA, WA and Geelong do.

The difference on Grand Final day was that the late picks draftees Geelong made fine AFL players cannot contend with early first round level talents that Brisbane had access for free.

We didn’t have any early access academy talent in the grand final. We had 19 year old Sam Marshall who was pick 25 and who got subbed at halftime.

I don’t expect much down Alberton way - I mean you won’t be splitting the atom - but at least put out something that makes sense.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Has there been an overreaction to the “go home 5” - Yeo, Polec, Docherty, Longer, Karnesis?

Polec, the guy who polecksed Shuey in the 2017 EF? That's all I remember of him tbh.

 

[Sheepey]

Putting the academies aside, Father-Son is a disaster. In the past few years:

Levi Ashcroft
Pick 5
Brisbane paid: 40, 42, 43, 46

Jordan Croft
Pick 15
Dogs paid: 44, 46, 47

Will McCabe
Pick 19
Hawthorn paid: 42, 44

Will Ashcroft
Pick 2
Brisbane paid: 34, 35, 38, 40

Jaspa Fletcher
Pick 12
Brisbane paid: 42, 47, 49

Max Michalanney
Pick 17
Adelaide paid: 41, 54, 57

Sam Darcy
Pick 2
Dogs paid: 34, 42, 43, 44, 45

Nick Daicos
Pick 4
Collingwood paid: 38, 40, 42, 44

It’s completely absurd. Back in the early days you could get any F/S with a Round 3 pick. They changed it because it was unfair. Now, we are basically back to that.

Don’t know how they allow this continue and also have a “draft system”.

Compare those bids with what was actually paid. There is not a club on earth who would do those trades. So the system is clearly broken.

That really is a disgrace. It should have been changed at the very latest after the Daicos/Darcy draft of 2021.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

That really is a disgrace. It should have been changed at the very latest after the Daicos/Darcy draft of 2021.

And they simply take the first round picks they do have and trade them into a future year so the have the capital then. It’s a complete and obvious rort (a legal rort) yet the AFL just stand there and watch it.

Not only did Brisbane get W Ashcroft and Fletcher, they also traded for Dunkley that year. It’s completely absurd.

 

[brutus76]

Swans have done the best out of their academy but because they've lost their last few GF's no one brings it up.

Heeney
Mills
Blakey
Campbell
Gulden
Cleary

 

[Chronz]

Swans have done the best out of their academy but because they've lost their last few GF's no one brings it up.

Heeney
Mills
Blakey
Campbell
Gulden
Cleary

All the interstate fans scream 'Vicbias' when it's actually NSWxQLDBias. This is exactly what the AFL want to grow the game in these regions. Tis no coincidence.

 

[Angus Young]

Academies are good for footy.

 

[mchal4]

There's another set of Aschroft twins coming...
This is getting ridiculous

 

[RegionalLion]

I agree that the cost for the Ashcroft boys and Fletcher was too low but as identified so has it been for all father sons.

Without Annable this year the academy issue would be far lower - as identified the highest drafted academy prospect from Brisbane is Marshal at 25 - he may not have even played this year bar injuries. Andrews has developed beyond all expectation - he was only pick 61 because other clubs in 2014 had Liam Dawson

Liam Dawson

Age

29

Ht

189cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.2

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.1

3star

MG

144.9

2star

No current season stats available

D

9.0

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.6

3star

MG

147.4

3star

above him. Gallop was never meant to play this year let alone in a grand final and I doubt other teams had his name in the 40s on their boards before the draft so not really an academy rort but a later draft player punching above his weight. Bruce - wasn't even drafted by another team so the academy priority hasn't prevented many clubs access to our players up to this point.

All clubs were also in the same boat with the points system and during this "getting players for free" concept identified by a lot of posters many teams benefited - why did so many other clubs give Brisbane these players for free? They didn't all the picks the Lions traded for meant each time other teams felt they were getting an advantage by moving up the draft board in some capacity - if trades don't happen Brisbane can't do what they did in 2022.

2022 was ridiculously good for Brisbane but was also a lot of work in pick trading both before and during the draft to make it happen it wasn't 'free' and many other teams also benefited. The Dunkley trade was great for Brisbane and has been even greater as time has gone on. Brisbane gave up 21 and a future first which was essentially pick 16 (but only because Brisbane made the GF and achieved above expectation) for Dunkley with some swaps of picks to dilute this slightly - he was a really good player for WB but he couldn't constantly make their midfield so this trade is not unlike many that happen each year. For example this seems more fair for the dogs than what they got from Bailey Smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

24

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

who was an amazing trade in for Geelong for just pick 17 (according to pretty much all media during this year) or Barrass for future 1st, 2nd, 3rd slightly diluted for Hawthorn.

There needs to be change to the academy system if there are continued top end talent being produced and it has achieved a major goal by getting pathways in Queensland and NSW and increasing participation. However, I do also think the participant numbers may be quite misleading across states as there is huge participation in Auskick programs but not the depth or numbers at teenage level where draft talent comes from as far as I have seen. How many Queensland players are in the AFL right now? Getting first crack at Queensland talent is an advantage but that advantage has been quite minimal up to this point and if the Lions had not had the genetic lottery come up trumps the academies would not be in the spotlight from a Lions perspective at least IMO.

 

[Philhawk]

I agree that the cost for the Ashcroft boys and Fletcher was too low but as identified so has it been for all father sons.

Without Annable this year the academy issue would be far lower - as identified the highest drafted academy prospect from Brisbane is Marshal at 25 - he may not have even played this year bar injuries. Andrews has developed beyond all expectation - he was only pick 61 because other clubs in 2014 had Liam Dawson above him. Gallop was never meant to play this year let alone in a grand final and I doubt other teams had his name in the 40s on their boards before the draft so not really an academy rort but a later draft player punching above his weight. Bruce - wasn't even drafted by another team so the academy priority hasn't prevented many clubs access to our players up to this point.

All clubs were also in the same boat with the points system and during this "getting players for free" concept identified by a lot of posters many teams benefited - why did so many other clubs give Brisbane these players for free? They didn't all the picks the Lions traded for meant each time other teams felt they were getting an advantage by moving up the draft board in some capacity - if trades don't happen Brisbane can't do what they did in 2022.

2022 was ridiculously good for Brisbane but was also a lot of work in pick trading both before and during the draft to make it happen it wasn't 'free' and many other teams also benefited. The Dunkley trade was great for Brisbane and has been even greater as time has gone on. Brisbane gave up 21 and a future first which was essentially pick 16 (but only because Brisbane made the GF and achieved above expectation) for Dunkley with some swaps of picks to dilute this slightly - he was a really good player for WB but he couldn't constantly make their midfield so this trade is not unlike many that happen each year. For example this seems more fair for the dogs than what they got from Bailey Smith who was an amazing trade in for Geelong for just pick 17 (according to pretty much all media during this year) or Barrass for future 1st, 2nd, 3rd slightly diluted for Hawthorn.

There needs to be change to the academy system if there are continued top end talent being produced and it has achieved a major goal by getting pathways in Queensland and NSW and increasing participation. However, I do also think the participant numbers may be quite misleading across states as there is huge participation in Auskick programs but not the depth or numbers at teenage level where draft talent comes from as far as I have seen. How many Queensland players are in the AFL right now? Getting first crack at Queensland talent is an advantage but that advantage has been quite minimal up to this point and if the Lions had not had the genetic lottery come up trumps the academies would not be in the spotlight from a Lions perspective at least IMO.

Good post.

I should add, the Brisbane in the title doesn’t mean this problem is limited to Brisbane. Gold Coast will also receive Uwland should go number 1. Annabel top 5 - and there’s plenty more to come in the next couple years.

 

[brutus76]

If the Swans had of matched the Bulldogs bid on Dunkley they might have actually won one of those GF's

Horrible decision in hindsight

 

[Roobs321]

I feel like we should regift our PP to the Lions for the melts

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

People do ignore the financial advantages Brisbane get also

They received 3.7 mill more then North last year despite having 70 mill+ more in assets then North do. Eagles/Collingwood aside Brisbane are 3rd in net worth but then receive 17 mill more then a club like the Eagles each year.

The AFL should be lowering the distribution they receive by atleast 5 mill per year but this year they will yet again get more distribution money then North...

 

[Roobs321]

Lions were apparently underdogs in the grand final, which should be taken into consideration. They deliberately play within themselves so as not to unduly startle the vicxperts, until it’s too late to campaign.

 

[Philhawk]

People do ignore the financial advantages Brisbane get also

They received 3.7 mill more then North last year despite having 70 mill+ more in assets then North do. Eagles/Collingwood aside Brisbane are 3rd in net worth but then receive 17 mill more then a club like the Eagles each year.

The AFL should be lowering the distribution they receive by atleast 5 mill per year but this year they will yet again get more distribution money then North...

Why do they receive more than North?

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Why do they receive more than North?

Its literally based on nothing but AFL feelings. Distribution was previously tied to revenue only but once Gold Coast/GWS came in it just got tied to grants instead mostly. North/Eagles for example report on the grant income. Brisbane/Gold Coast hold it one line item called AFL distribution funds

For example North got 54 mill in revenue in 2024, Brisbane got 94 mill in revenue. Brisbane have 17 mill of cash in the bank. North have 2.5 mill. Brisbane has 99 million dollars in non-currnet assets, North has 25 mill in non-current assets.... Brisbane got 29 .6mill in AFL funding, North got 25.3 mill. Brisbane received interest free loans from AFL when they had 60 mill in assets too btw. St Kilda took out a loan from the AFL at a similar time but are paying 3% interest also... St Kilda has 54mill in assets compared to Brisbanes 99 mill. Brisbane got 29.6 mill and St Kilda got 23.7 mill in 2024 AFL distribution funding also

Funding is all on grants. Grants are

Base distribution
Funding (based on revenue this one)
Signage
AFLW
Property and Equipment
Academy grants
Grassroots
State Body grants
AFL Country
Training Ground funding

North only get the first 4 but dont qualify for the rest. They used to get academy grants but now dont because of Tasmania. Brisbane is a case of we dont know what they do get but I imagine they qualify for every single one which is why its 29 mill. They will claim they spend it on "growing the game" but reality is in 2023 they made a profit and simply put that cash into its bank to earn interest so it doesnt pass the pub test. In 2024 Brisbane made 4.4 mill in profit. 4.2 mill which was just extra funding from the AFL that Brisbane got but North didnt. Brisbane also managed to sell land which was gifted by the AFL in its AFLW training ground and put that as cash in the bank. In the last 10 years they have a extra 11 mill in cash all of a sudden.

Been pushing this for a while saying it should be discussed but no one in the AFL media has the courage. People who think its only the academy that gives them a advantage are talking shit. Its much grander then that

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I did breakdowns before in another thread

Brisbane Lions total current assets - 17 million
Brisbanes total non-current assets - 99.87 million
Cash - 14.1 million
AFL funding - 29.6 million

St Kildas total current assets - 2.3 million
St Kildas total non-current assets - 54.1 mill
Cash - 650,000
AFL funding - 23.7 mill

North Melbourne current assets - 11.7 million
North Melbourne non-current assets - 25 million
Cash - 2.5 million
AFL funding - 25.4 million

 

[Viceregal]

Putting the academies aside, Father-Son is a disaster. In the past few years:

Levi Ashcroft
Pick 5
Brisbane paid: 40, 42, 43, 46

Jordan Croft
Pick 15
Dogs paid: 44, 46, 47

Will McCabe
Pick 19
Hawthorn paid: 42, 44

Will Ashcroft
Pick 2
Brisbane paid: 34, 35, 38, 40

Jaspa Fletcher
Pick 12
Brisbane paid: 42, 47, 49

Max Michalanney
Pick 17
Adelaide paid: 41, 54, 57

Sam Darcy
Pick 2
Dogs paid: 34, 42, 43, 44, 45

Nick Daicos
Pick 4
Collingwood paid: 38, 40, 42, 44

It’s completely absurd. Back in the early days you could get any F/S with a Round 3 pick. They changed it because it was unfair. Now, we are basically back to that.

Don’t know how they allow this continue and also have a “draft system”.

Compare those bids with what was actually paid. There is not a club on earth who would do those trades. So the system is clearly broken.

I believe you forgot to include all of the clubs who benefited from getting better picks than they would otherwise have had at their disposal by swapping their later picks for other team's earlier picks ... on the years you have a F/s to pay for the points were worth more than the picks and for the other club without F/s that year they reap the reward.

So there are clubs who do those trades and they do them for their own self interest ... kind of a win-win really.

 

[Hydatina Physis]

I believe you forgot to include all of the clubs who benefited from getting better picks than they would otherwise have had at their disposal by swapping their later picks for other team's earlier picks ... on the years you have a F/s to pay for the points were worth more than the picks and for the other club without F/s that year they reap the reward.

So there are clubs who do those trades and they do them for their own self interest ... kind of a win-win really.

That's a great point.

 

[Hydatina Physis]

I don't think anyone would give a shit if the recent father sons were all average players. A bit of luck and timing has come into play.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

No, well not until the same coin is invested in the grassroots that the traditional states get. The GF gets shared around.
Maybe we could have a media that isn’t all about VFL.
That’s before we get to the 3rd party aponsorships

But yeah once all the advantages Victorians receive are looked at we can look at academies in the northern states.

The AFL could just fund academies so players are open to all. Clubs have self interest at heart and will run the academies to best suit themselves not footy as a whole. They're a farce.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

The AFL could just fund academies so players are open to all. Clubs have self interest at heart and will run the academies to best suit themselves not footy as a whole. They're a farce.

Now now. Jaspa Fletcher could have went and played NRL if it wasnt for Brisbane Lions academy

 

[Pies No 1]

There are a lot of strange comments in this thread. All these supporters of non vic teams happy if Brisbane get every player in the draft and wins 10 in a row, not even caring about their own team sitting in the bottom 4 for those 10 years, as long as vic teams don't win - insanity. And Brisbane supporters so angry saying they will overtake vic, and wanting vic footy to die off - more insanity

I don't know if these people know how sporting competitions work. If only a few teams have advantages so strong that they continually win, it hurts the sport as 90% of the teams are never winning anything and their fans no longer care/they can't get new fans.

No matter where you are from or who you support there is 0 benefit in 2 teams taking all the top talent and continually winning premierships for decades on end. Unsure if you guys are trolling, but If you think this is a good system you need to stop following sports.