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Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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Opposition supporters coming to troll , you have been warned
 
dogwatch said:
We're clearly not going to agree but at least we've both had our say. I'm going to stop there.
(Believe it or not I only came here for a quick look today 🤣)

You seem to be implying that we've done pretty much as well as we should in managing our KPD stocks over the distance.

Is that correct? If so, we'll just have to disagree.
If not, where did we fail in your view?

My one line summary is we took our eyes off the ball, hoping to get by with a succession of late career stop gaps.
Click to expand...
Yes I am saying we have tried to address them they've either requested a trade (Hamling/Adams/Young) Been shit (Collins/Cordy) or become what should've been an AA KPF

We had the right age bracket coming through then in 2020 Young (21) Trengrove (29) Cordy (23) Wood (30) Khamis (20) Keath (28) Gards (22) just all the ones under 28 are shite now minus 2025 VFL TOTY FB Gards
 
MrChristo said:
Sorry for jumping in. I'm not dismissing your premise, but even with the aid of hindsight, what are we doing differently to solve this?

2018. If you don't see Quaynor as a KPD there's no-one.
(Seeing Butters @12 hurts tho. 🥺)

2019. De Koning (who Geelong didn't take with their first pick it should be noted), Rivers.
Riccardi went just prior to our 2nd pick.
But, I think it's fair to say we were screaming out for a small forward even then.
Even in hindsight, 50/50?

2020. Obviously JUH. Was never going to be anything else.
Again worth noting the best rated KPD were then Grainger-Barrass, and Zac Reid (who might go ok, but can't stay on the park).
Did we dodge a bullet or 2 anyway?

2021. Darcy. Was never going to be anyone else.
Arty Jones over Serong? Sure. But plenty here saying that he's VFL quality only.
("Played" 10 AFL games, but 1 was as an unused sub).

The one thing that stands out is how few of these type of players actually get drafted.

So, I get your point, but even with a Mission salsa powered Time Machine, I'm not convinced that we are any better off right now.
Click to expand...
Like I posted before the Captain Hindsight one to change is don't get Schache draft Sam Taylor and Charlie Ballard and we would've won the last 4 flags
 
MrChristo said:
Sorry for jumping in. I'm not dismissing your premise, but even with the aid of hindsight, what are we doing differently to solve this?

2018. If you don't see Quaynor as a KPD there's no-one.
(Seeing Butters @12 hurts tho. 🥺)

2019. De Koning (who Geelong didn't take with their first pick it should be noted), Rivers.
Riccardi went just prior to our 2nd pick.
But, I think it's fair to say we were screaming out for a small forward even then.
Even in hindsight, 50/50?

2020. Obviously JUH. Was never going to be anything else.
Again worth noting the best rated KPD were then Grainger-Barrass, and Zac Reid (who might go ok, but can't stay on the park).
Did we dodge a bullet or 2 anyway?

2021. Darcy. Was never going to be anyone else.
Arty Jones over Serong? Sure. But plenty here saying that he's VFL quality only.
("Played" 10 AFL games, but 1 was as an unused sub).

The one thing that stands out is how few of these type of players actually get drafted.

So, I get your point, but even with a Mission salsa powered Time Machine, I'm not convinced that we are any better off right now.
Click to expand...
It’s not about having a Time Machine or looking back at who is good and who is not. You’re never going to nail every selection.
But there’s been a continual makeshift approach to this part of the ground. In Round 1 2023 we played Josh Bruce coming back from an ACL at CHB. That’s the furthest thing possible from a long term list strategy.
 
I honestly don’t get the frustration with the club by some on here demanding that we recruit Harris Andrews or Sam Taylor.

We had a crack at Wilkie and caused some panic in the Saints camp.

Saints are having a massive crack and good on them, but I’m not sure they will be any better when all is said and done.

Budarick is a position of need and a good pick up for us.
Move JUH out for a bag of chips just has to happen.
I like Buku, but probably best for him to move on.

If we can target a quick mid with good skills with our first pick in the draft, the best available key back from the state league with the right size, playing style and age bracket, plus Will Darcy, I will be more than happy.

Our list is in a good place and we are already planning for Butters next year.
 

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A little info about the club

www.afl.com.au

Crows to retain Sanders interest, Lions eye Bailey talks, axed Swan joins Tassie

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

JAMARRA MOVE ONE STEP CLOSER​

JAMARRA Ugle-Hagan is one step closer to joining Gold Coast after passing a medical at the Suns on Thursday.

Gold Coast will continue to complete its due diligence on the 2020 pick No.1 across the weekend and still require board approval, but a deal is expected to be finalised by the trade deadline.

Ugle-Hagan has travelled to Queensland twice over the past week, meeting with Damien Hardwick, Craig Cameron and the Suns' leaders in Carrara. The 23-year-old hasn't played an AFL game since the 2024 elimination final due to well documented personal issues, but featured in the Victorian Aboriginal Community Services Association Carnival in Cranbourne last weekend, where Gold Coast watched him play his first game at any level this year. The Suns haven't started negotiating a contract just yet, but a heavily incentivised two-year deal is set to be offered to Ugle-Hagan once everything else is ticked off by the club and the AFL. – Josh Gabelich

BUKU TALKS TO DRAG OUT​

A TRADE for contracted defender Buku Khamis is likely to drag deep into next week, after Carlton used a series of assets to complete a speedy double-swoop for Ben Ainsworth and Campbell Chesser on Friday.

The Blues parted with pick No.41, a future second-round selection and lost small forward Corey Durdin in order to amass Ainsworth and Chesser, as talks with the Bulldogs over a deal for Khamis continue to be locked at a standstill.

The two sides have held discussions over Khamis throughout the week, though very little progress has been made in negotiations, after the defender requested a trade to Ikon Park despite being contracted through to 2026 at the Dogs.
Carlton now has picks No.10, 22, 54, 67 and 72 to play with in a trade for Khamis, with the club also mindful of retaining enough points to match bids on father-son defender Harry Dean and Academy prospect Jack Isonduring this year's draft.

"We've had initial talks with Carlton, but it's not something there's much value in commenting on publicly," Western Bulldogs list manager Michael Regan told AFL.com.au's Gettable on Continental Tyres AFL Trade Radio on Friday.

"Buku is a contracted player, who provides us depth in an area of the ground where we clearly need it. We want to preserve our depth. For Buku to leave, it's going to have to be a pick that reflects his value. Not only in the marketplace, as a contracted player, but to us specifically as a club that has ambitions next year and values his services.

"He's also a product of our Next Generation Academy and a much-loved member of our football club, who we tried to re-sign pretty aggressively in the middle of the year." – Riley Beveridge
 
I don't think anyone wants Power to turn into the Dodo and win trade week.

We haven't won a final since 2021 despite having the best player in the comp for the last 4 years. Twice in that span we haven't even made the top 8.

The teams we couldn't beat in 2025 have been aggressively using this time to improve with known quantity talent. Some of them are equally as good at drafting as we are, or have gifted young talents coming through like we usually do.

Our horrifically bad defensive group looks even thinner. Ryan Gardner is not AFL viable depth.

We've lost Dunkley, Smith and next Jamarra (might flame out, might take them over the top) to stronger teams while we've, so far, gotten very little back in return in terms of short term production.

If the club genuinely, truly believes that Buss (huge question mark, subbed out in half his games) - JoD (progress stalled) - Lobb (getting older!), Gardner (lol), Walker and Will Darcy (not going to be factors in 2026) is enough, I mean...Maybe we do have a few ostriches at WO. I hope those comments were just spin meant to placate the masses about our quite dicey defensive stocks.

Yes, Budarick helps. But it goes a long way further. If our flat track press originated from a lack of faith in our back 6, would seem pretty stupid to then not address it. And no, doesn't have to be Wilkie. Minor upgrades would go a long way. Yes there are players who weren't the VFL defender of the year who are going to be better at AFL level than the guy who was.
 
Bulldogs85 said:
A little info about the club

www.afl.com.au

Crows to retain Sanders interest, Lions eye Bailey talks, axed Swan joins Tassie

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

JAMARRA MOVE ONE STEP CLOSER​

JAMARRA Ugle-Hagan is one step closer to joining Gold Coast after passing a medical at the Suns on Thursday.

Gold Coast will continue to complete its due diligence on the 2020 pick No.1 across the weekend and still require board approval, but a deal is expected to be finalised by the trade deadline.

Ugle-Hagan has travelled to Queensland twice over the past week, meeting with Damien Hardwick, Craig Cameron and the Suns' leaders in Carrara. The 23-year-old hasn't played an AFL game since the 2024 elimination final due to well documented personal issues, but featured in the Victorian Aboriginal Community Services Association Carnival in Cranbourne last weekend, where Gold Coast watched him play his first game at any level this year. The Suns haven't started negotiating a contract just yet, but a heavily incentivised two-year deal is set to be offered to Ugle-Hagan once everything else is ticked off by the club and the AFL. – Josh Gabelich

BUKU TALKS TO DRAG OUT​

A TRADE for contracted defender Buku Khamis is likely to drag deep into next week, after Carlton used a series of assets to complete a speedy double-swoop for Ben Ainsworth and Campbell Chesser on Friday.

The Blues parted with pick No.41, a future second-round selection and lost small forward Corey Durdin in order to amass Ainsworth and Chesser, as talks with the Bulldogs over a deal for Khamis continue to be locked at a standstill.

The two sides have held discussions over Khamis throughout the week, though very little progress has been made in negotiations, after the defender requested a trade to Ikon Park despite being contracted through to 2026 at the Dogs.
Carlton now has picks No.10, 22, 54, 67 and 72 to play with in a trade for Khamis, with the club also mindful of retaining enough points to match bids on father-son defender Harry Dean and Academy prospect Jack Isonduring this year's draft.

"We've had initial talks with Carlton, but it's not something there's much value in commenting on publicly," Western Bulldogs list manager Michael Regan told AFL.com.au's Gettable on Continental Tyres AFL Trade Radio on Friday.

"Buku is a contracted player, who provides us depth in an area of the ground where we clearly need it. We want to preserve our depth. For Buku to leave, it's going to have to be a pick that reflects his value. Not only in the marketplace, as a contracted player, but to us specifically as a club that has ambitions next year and values his services.

"He's also a product of our Next Generation Academy and a much-loved member of our football club, who we tried to re-sign pretty aggressively in the middle of the year." – Riley Beveridge
Click to expand...
Cool, so GC watched JUH play in that game recently but the dogs had no idea he was playing.

This is going to be a bad trade period
 
Unorth said:
I don't think anyone wants Power to turn into the Dodo and win trade week.

We haven't won a final since 2021 despite having the best player in the comp for the last 4 years. Twice in that span we haven't even made the top 8.

The teams we couldn't beat in 2025 have been aggressively using this time to improve with known quantity talent. Some of them are equally as good at drafting as we are, or have gifted young talents coming through like we usually do.

Our horrifically bad defensive group looks even thinner. Ryan Gardner is not AFL viable depth.

We've lost Dunkley, Smith and next Jamarra (might flame out, might take them over the top) to stronger teams while we've, so far, gotten very little back in return in terms of short term production.

If the club genuinely, truly believes that Buss (huge question mark, subbed out in half his games) - JoD (progress stalled) - Lobb (getting older!), Gardner (lol), Walker and Will Darcy (not going to be factors in 2026) is enough, I mean...Maybe we do have a few ostriches at WO. I hope those comments were just spin meant to placate the masses about our quite dicey defensive stocks.

Yes, Budarick helps. But it goes a long way further. If our flat track press originated from a lack of faith in our back 6, would seem pretty stupid to then not address it. And no, doesn't have to be Wilkie. Minor upgrades would go a long way. Yes there are players who weren't the VFL defender of the year who are going to be better at AFL level than the guy who was.
Click to expand...
Perfect summary. I'd rather us do something like get in May or Frost then just do nothing and back in the group that couldn't get it done last year and has even worse depth. That makes no sense.
 
I'm not overly critical of our drafting strategy. We've prioritised a best available view. Drafting for needs can end badly, like the Saints drafting McCartin over Petracca. There does have to be a balance and maybe we haven't had a perfect mix but overall I think we've done fine.

I do think we've been overly cautious with free agency. We've picked up some DFAs but I can't recall many RFA or FAs. Trengove, Suckling, anyone else? Obviously we tried Silvagni this year.

It's a very competitive market where you have to offer salaries that are usually larger than the player is actually worth. The flipside of not having to loose any draft picks is a big bonus I'm not sure we've made the most of. I'm not expecting us to be in the Dangerfield or Jeremy Cameron running, but there have been some B grade talent that would have been worth an attempt.
 
Saints trade strategy only makes sense if they get to a GF or actually win one. Loading up to make the finals, make a prelim, what does it matter?

Hands up if you think St Kilda will win the GF in the next three years?

The Fools Gold strategy. I'm happy to build.
 
So if we work with the Blues on Buku and 33 for 22, is 12 & 22 enough to move up to pick 8 from the Suns as reported? Gives them another 400 points. Assuming they may be able to get better offers though.
 

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The Inbetweener said:
So if we work with the Blues on Buku and 33 for 22, is 12 & 22 enough to move up to pick 8 from the Suns as reported? Gives them another 400 points. Assuming they may be able to get better offers though.
Click to expand...

I'd rather take the two picks to the draft than trade up a few spots. It won't be high enough for Xavier Taylor, and Dovaston or Oskar Taylor will be there at 12.
 
lachy said:
Given I said posters who do understand the basic concept, your actually the one saying this board is full of posters who can't understand, never said at all by me. Also, are you saying generalisations saying posters who do not by into the hyperventilation that the club is doing nothing are clearly accepting mediocrity as Bulldog Muscle posted?
Click to expand...
How about you make your point without disparaging others. That would be a good thing to do.
 
Foxman98 said:
Yes I am saying we have tried to address them they've either requested a trade (Hamling/Adams/Young) Been shit (Collins/Cordy) or become what should've been an AA KPF

We had the right age bracket coming through then in 2020 Young (21) Trengrove (29) Cordy (23) Wood (30) Khamis (20) Keath (28) Gards (22) just all the ones under 28 are shite now minus 2025 VFL TOTY FB Gards
Click to expand...
RE: “or become what should’ve been an AA KPF” - we shouldn’t forget that when Darcy was drafted and for most of his first year we didn’t know whether he’d be a KPF or KPD, so that comment really applies to both him and Naughts.
 
It is very hard to win a flag basically relying on the draft and bargain buy trades. If I believe the bulldogs posters and we are certain to get Butters in the next trade, we are putting all our eggs in the one basket and ignoring other needs. It is frustrating as a few trades of the right players to top up our obvious strengths, and we are in the flag window.
 

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Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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