The war against renewable energy

[SaintsSeptember]

They will eventually… and people will be able to charge their cars for free, and bring that power home and use it in their house.

Three hours of free power for everyone from July – but there’s a catch

Electricity companies will be forced to offer a new type of bill plan that supplies all households – with and without solar panels – with free power in the middle of the day.

www.theage.com.au

I'll be keen to see if that policy rolls out to businesses.

The underlying reason they are doing it is because the gov has finally worked out how hideously expensive storage is.

In an ideal world, the surplus solar electricity would be stored, then used when needed.
Rather than that, the government seems to want to move the solar ( possibly into home based storage like you said ), which means they will continue using coal at night.

You keep saying employers will provide free electricity to employees. Maybe a few , but i don't believe for a moment they will be investing in the sort of infrastructure, that would allow the majority of employees in Australia to charge for free. Absolutely no evidence that they will.

Also...if we are telling solar farmers they have to give away their electricity for free, how will you get the additional solar investment we need. Stuff you give away for free tends to be not worth much .

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

FFS that’s for grid tied battery installations.
You are one special unit.
Your consistency in getting things wrong is outstanding.

The batteries you think are going to change the work plug into the grid, They ARE grid tied .

There is ZERO chance of these being approved in Australia....EVER.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The batteries you think are going to change the work plug into the grid, They ARE grid tied .

There is ZERO chance of these being approved in Australia....EVER.

Did you happen to post this from a laptop, ipad or mobile phone?

They run off batteries. You plug them into the grid, to charge them.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Did you happen to post this from a laptop, ipad or mobile phone?

They run off batteries. You plug them into the grid, to charge them.

Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.

These batteries are bidirectional, like a home battery and the Australian Standards are very specific about where you can and can't have them for safety purposes.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.

These batteries are bidirectional, like a home battery and the Australian Standards are very specific about where you can and can't have them for safety purposes.

Are power banks not bidirectional?

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Are power banks not bidirectional?

It's the bidirectional charging that's the issue. These batteries are a home solar battery on wheels.

It's fantastic tech, but limited to 800W so it really gives you about 5kWH of free power a day. We seem to have gone down the free 3 hour window.

 

[Seeds]

I'll be keen to see if that policy rolls out to businesses.

The underlying reason they are doing it is because the gov has finally worked out how hideously expensive storage is.

In an ideal world, the surplus solar electricity would be stored, then used when needed.
Rather than that, the government seems to want to move the solar ( possibly into home based storage like you said ), which means they will continue using coal at night.

You keep saying employers will provide free electricity to employees. Maybe a few , but i don't believe for a moment they will be investing in the sort of infrastructure, that would allow the majority of employees in Australia to charge for free. Absolutely no evidence that they will.

Also...if we are telling solar farmers they have to give away their electricity for free, how will you get the additional solar investment we need. Stuff you give away for free tends to be not worth much .

Storage is used at night. Why would you run coal plants at night if you now can use storage?

Im on a free 3 hr plan already. I never use the grid at night. Just my battery.

 

[Seeds]

The politics of this move is a thing of beauty. Labor is massively incentivising voters to buy batteries which is snookering the libs nuclear and coal agenda.

Good luck trying to tell wealthy voters you are spending massive amounts of tax money on new grid generation capapcity when many of these voters become off grid with home batteries and solar. They will be utterly livid.

 

[Seeds]

It's the bidirectional charging that's the issue. These batteries are a home solar battery on wheels.

Bidirectional ev batteries are a game changer again. Everyone will want them given how much they reduce power bills with smart planning.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Storage is used at night. Why would you run coal plants at night if you now can use storage?

Im on a free 3 hr plan already. I never use the grid at night. Just my battery.

Huh? If there was enough storage, they'd be buying the solar to store, instead of giving it away for free.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Bidirectional ev batteries are a game changer again. Everyone will want them given how much they reduce power bills with smart planning.

This plan relies on everyone being able to charge their car during the day for free.
Why would a commercial car park ( for example ) spend the money to provide free charging. ( Money being the infrastructure , not the ...free electricity. ).

 

[nut]

I'll be keen to see if that policy rolls out to businesses.

The underlying reason they are doing it is because the gov has finally worked out how hideously expensive storage is.

In an ideal world, the surplus solar electricity would be stored, then used when needed.
Rather than that, the government seems to want to move the solar ( possibly into home based storage like you said ), which means they will continue using coal at night.

You keep saying employers will provide free electricity to employees. Maybe a few , but i don't believe for a moment they will be investing in the sort of infrastructure, that would allow the majority of employees in Australia to charge for free. Absolutely no evidence that they will.

Also...if we are telling solar farmers they have to give away their electricity for free, how will you get the additional solar investment we need. Stuff you give away for free tends to be not worth much .

Solar farms normally have a contract.

My solar system has been curtailed for the majority of the last 3 months during the day…. As early as 8am. We have too much renewables in the grid and the wholesale feed in tariff is negative the majority of the time.
Wind turbines sit idle a lot of the time too….
It’s all about storage…. Storage is cheap, we Need to catch more renewables and transfer that to nighttime use.

As of July next year all retailers will have to offer a free power period everyday. Ovo and Globird offer that already.
This will boost renewable production massively.

Over 110,000 batteries online since July 1st.
Vehicle to grid uptake is going to create another massive power shift from daytime to night time.

Of course businesses and employers are going to offer staff charging, why wouldn’t they when it’ll be free from 1st of July for three hours a day.

When snowy 2 comes online it will be able to absorb massive amounts of renewables too… to release at night.

 

[nut]

Huh? If there was enough storage, they'd be buying the solar to store, instead of giving it away for free.

The whole concept of renewables is to have way more than you need. I have 15kw of solar on my roof… I’ll never need that much solar unless conditions are poor… cloudy and the production drops.
Yesterday it rained and my battery still fully charged.

More Storage increases the amount of renewables being used with out increasing the amount being produced.

 

[nut]

It's the bidirectional charging that's the issue. These batteries are a home solar battery on wheels.

It's fantastic tech, but limited to 800W so it really gives you about 5kWH of free power a day. We seem to have gone down the free 3 hour window.

So you have one in the kitchen and one in the laundry etc……. It’s hard for you to imagine I know.

 

[nut]

This plan relies on everyone being able to charge their car during the day for free.
Why would a commercial car park ( for example ) spend the money to provide free charging. ( Money being the infrastructure , not the ...free electricity. ).

Ask Bunnings….. ask my local RSL… and countless other businesses who offer free charging.

 

[Seeds]

Huh? If there was enough storage, they'd be buying the solar to store, instead of giving it away for free.

They are giving it away for free to encourage people to buy batteries, charge them up with the free solar power and then discharge them at night. I.e. the way its supposed to happen. Not that they really need to make this policy. Multiple companies are doing it already. Ovo, globird etc. But this gives it a push along before the next election.

 

[nut]

It's the bidirectional charging that's the issue. These batteries are a home solar battery on wheels.

It's fantastic tech, but limited to 800W so it really gives you about 5kWH of free power a day. We seem to have gone down the free 3 hour window.

Peak prices varies in Australia from 30c to 60cents a KW…
5 x 40cents is $2 a day… $700 saving a year…

 

[nut]

They are giving it away for free to encourage people to buy batteries, charge them up with the free solar power and then discharge them at night. I.e. the way its supposed to happen. Not that they really need to make this policy. Multiple companies are doing it already. Ovo, globird etc. But this gives it a push along before the next election.

Decentralising the grid is reducing the cost of transmission too…

Vehicle to grid will be the game changer…. I’ve said that here years ago.

Charge the car for free…. Bring it home… connect it… rinse and repeat.

I’d say by 2030 we will have at least 2 million EVs and home batteries connected to the grid.
Considering most forecasts a few years ago didn’t have them in calculations…I’d say our omission targets are going to be easily met.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The whole concept of renewables is to have way more than you need. I have 15kw of solar on my roof… I’ll never need that much solar unless conditions are poor… cloudy and the production drops.
Yesterday it rained and my battery still fully charged.

More Storage increases the amount of renewables being used with out increasing the amount being produced.

Absolutely, but the thing is, you can't just dump excess power. In W.A. they are restricting rooftop solar, because the grid there can't handle it. We absolutely need the storage, but they don't have it.

If you generate more electricity than you can absorb, you end up increasing the voltage in the grid.

Its going to be tricky to manage.
Yes pumped hydro is important.
They SHOULD have designed facilities like desalination plants to run at times of surplus electricity. But apparently, they can't. ( They pay to claim their green electricity credentials , in Victoria ).

 

[nut]

Absolutely, but the thing is, you can't just dump excess power. In W.A. they are restricting rooftop solar, because the grid there can't handle it. We absolutely need the storage, but they don't have it.

If you generate more electricity than you can absorb, you end up increasing the voltage in the grid.

Its going to be tricky to manage.
Yes pumped hydro is important.
They SHOULD have designed facilities like desalination plants to run at times of surplus electricity. But apparently, they can't. ( They pay to claim their green electricity credentials , in Victoria ).

All new inverters can be curtailed and stopped from adding more solar to the grid…. It’s mandatory for new solar installs in vic…

Amber electric controls my inverter and stops my exports when the price is negative…
Just my system alone could power another 3-4 homes comfortably… but it goes to waste… 1000,s of system are being curtailed… wind mills are being curtailed….
This is why it’s important to offer feee power… to encourage people absorbing this unused power and displacing fossil fuels at night. It should be everyone’s responsibility… including work places … to help absorb more renewables to be used later.

 

[Festerz]

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Decentralising the grid is reducing the cost of transmission too…

Vehicle to grid will be the game changer…. I’ve said that here years ago.

Charge the car for free…. Bring it home… connect it… rinse and repeat.

I’d say by 2030 we will have at least 2 million EVs and home batteries connected to the grid.
Considering most forecasts a few years ago didn’t have them in calculations…I’d say our omission targets are going to be easily met.

That's higher than the government road map. But...if you say so.

Ask Bunnings….. ask my local RSL… and countless other businesses who offer free charging.

I asked AI, feel free to refer me to something more reliable...AI said.
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Bunnings does not offer free car charging at its public EV stations; however, it has installed public fast chargers at 14 selected stores in Australia and New Zealand that customers can pay to use. The cost and availability of the chargers vary by location, and some older, free Level 2 chargers may still exist at certain stores like the Doncaster and Preston locations
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Not sure but i think Bunnings have installed 18 chargers total. This is what people call......good publicity.

Bunnings has 1600 employees at their head office. They do not offer free charging to their employees.
That is what i said. There is no evidence that employers will be rolling out charging facilities to their employees. If you work at Bunnings head office, and you want to charge your car during the "free " period. Stiff shit.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

All new inverters can be curtailed and stopped from adding more solar to the grid…. It’s mandatory for new solar installs in vic…

Amber electric controls my inverter and stops my exports when the price is negative…
Just my system alone could power another 3-4 homes comfortably… but it goes to waste… 1000,s of system are being curtailed… wind mills are being curtailed….
This is why it’s important to offer feee power… to encourage people absorbing this unused power and displacing fossil fuels at night. It should be everyone’s responsibility… including work places … to help absorb more renewables to be used later.

There will be always electricity going to waste under a renewable system.

If you have enough renewables to power you through a period in winter with limited sunlight and light wind, then you are going to have a massive glut on a sunny windy day in summer.

This is where on-demand industry would be good. As i suggested earlier, stuff like desalination plants could operate cheaply in times of gluts. Hydrogen production by electrolysis is a possibility though i don't know if the intermitted operation , only producing when the sun shines, is technically feasible.
Also most industrial processes are costed in a manner where you pay for it , then run it as hard as you can until you get your money back. Would be a different economic model if using it intermittently.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

There will be always electricity going to waste under a renewable system.

If you have enough renewables to power you through a period in winter with limited sunlight and light wind, then you are going to have a massive glut on a sunny windy day in summer.

This is where on-demand industry would be good. As i suggested earlier, stuff like desalination plants could operate cheaply in times of gluts. Hydrogen production by electrolysis is a possibility though i don't know if the intermitted operation , only producing when the sun shines, is technically feasible.
Also most industrial processes are costed in a manner where you pay for it , then run it as hard as you can until you get your money back. Would be a different economic model if using it intermittently.

The bolded bit is important. Renewables viability should be assessed on the worst case scenario, not best case scenario. No point having a glut but then living through blackouts in winter / fog conditions when conditions are suboptimal.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The bolded bit is important. Renewables viability should be assessed on the worst case scenario, not best case scenario. No point having a glut but then living through blackouts in winter / fog conditions when conditions are suboptimal.

Its where people fall down in cost calculations, they compare 100kw of gas generation to 100kw of Solar potential best case generation.