KPD. What is the plan? Is there a plan?

[WCE777]

I heard along the grapevine that Young toured west coast last week… Apparently Baker was showing him around. Could be codswallop but would be a total moneyball pick

No intel, but seems we are linked to Young.
Looks like a cheaper short term option for a few years to strengthen our stocks.
Seems to have some talent and was progressing very well before he did an ACL in 2024.
At worst a better KPD than Bazzo, and at 27 he is a short term option while we draft and develop our next KPD stocks.

 

[Bluke]

No intel, but seems we are linked to Young.
Looks like a cheaper short term option for a few years to strengthen our stocks.
Seems to have some talent and was progressing very well before he did an ACL in 2024.
At worst a better KPD than Bazzo, and at 27 he is a short term option while we draft and develop our next KPD stocks.

I think our medium term goal has to be win enough games to retain Harley long term (beyond 2028). Seems like this guy is perfect for that. Frees up Ginbeast to play a more attacking role too.

HED, Tyler, Ginbey, Hough, Cole, Duggan, Bakes is a solid mix along with Brock, Grego, Allan putting pressure on spots.

 

[Kegs15]

Young will be a good get and think will be first choice alongside HEdwards (who was a shining light this season IMO). Definitely needed to add someone like him to the list.

That being said think there's a bit of sleeping being done on Sandy Brock. Had an underrated season IMO, was obviously getting murdered with delivery coming in but acquitted himself pretty well.

198cm and super mobile, probably a good fit on balance to take the more mobile Hipwood types and let HEdwards wrestle the gorillas. Still only 22 as well - super young for a KPP. Will naturally bulk up a bit as he gets older, reckon by 24-25 he could be legitimately quite good.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Young will be a good get and think will be first choice alongside HEdwards (who was a shining light this season IMO). Definitely needed to add someone like him to the list.

That being said think there's a bit of sleeping being done on Sandy Brock. Had an underrated season IMO, was obviously getting murdered with delivery coming in but acquitted himself pretty well.

198cm and super mobile, probably a good fit on balance to take the more mobile Hipwood types and let HEdwards wrestle the gorillas. Still only 22 as well - super young for a KPP. Will naturally bulk up a bit as he gets older, reckon by 24-25 he could be legitimately quite good.

With you on that view with Young and it pushes Brock as good depth. That would give us Harry, Young, Brock and Bazzo who are all ready to go, albeit a little underwhelming.

So with an eye to the future, I am keen to get Schubert. We split with Dons and give up Duursma to get Sharp at 2 then Cumming and Schubert at 5 and 6 (something going back to Don on this one). Schubert's reading of the play is first class and his marking is up there. I would play him at CHB until Waterman is done then partner him up with Shanahan. Hoping that David Shanahan continues his progression as he looks a nature intercepting CHB.

The other slightly left field is to move Archer to KPD. I actually think he can become the key ruck for us although it will take at least another 2 years. If the ruck rule changes and Archer's projection change halt him from being our next ruck/KPF, then he will make a good KPD.

 

[RustyShacklefordFalcon]

Young will be a good get and think will be first choice alongside HEdwards (who was a shining light this season IMO). Definitely needed to add someone like him to the list.

That being said think there's a bit of sleeping being done on Sandy Brock. Had an underrated season IMO, was obviously getting murdered with delivery coming in but acquitted himself pretty well.

198cm and super mobile, probably a good fit on balance to take the more mobile Hipwood types and let HEdwards wrestle the gorillas. Still only 22 as well - super young for a KPP. Will naturally bulk up a bit as he gets older, reckon by 24-25 he could be legitimately quite good.

Agree, some people talk about Brock like he's a stop-gap but I see what you're seeing.

 

[WCE777]

Young will be a good get and think will be first choice alongside HEdwards (who was a shining light this season IMO). Definitely needed to add someone like him to the list.

That being said think there's a bit of sleeping being done on Sandy Brock. Had an underrated season IMO, was obviously getting murdered with delivery coming in but acquitted himself pretty well.

198cm and super mobile, probably a good fit on balance to take the more mobile Hipwood types and let HEdwards wrestle the gorillas. Still only 22 as well - super young for a KPP. Will naturally bulk up a bit as he gets older, reckon by 24-25 he could be legitimately quite good.

I like it with Young, seems to have come back from his ACL a better player so shows he has upside and willing to evolve.
Agree on Brock, while I don't think Brock will ever be a big bodied KPD, he did have a very good year and will have learned heaps, plenty of upside in his game also.
Looking forward to watching the AFL Indigenous Academy v Multicultural Academy where D Shanahan WC NGA KPD is playing to see where our stocks are looking forward.

 

[WCE777]

With you on that view with Young and it pushes Brock as good depth. That would give us Harry, Young, Brock and Bazzo who are all ready to go, albeit a little underwhelming.

So with an eye to the future, I am keen to get Schubert. We split with Dons and give up Duursma to get Sharp at 2 then Cumming and Schubert at 5 and 6 (something going back to Don on this one). Schubert's reading of the play is first class and his marking is up there. I would play him at CHB until Waterman is done then partner him up with Shanahan. Hoping that David Shanahan continues his progression as he looks a nature intercepting CHB.

The other slightly left field is to move Archer to KPD. I actually think he can become the key ruck for us although it will take at least another 2 years. If the ruck rule changes and Archer's projection change halt him from being our next ruck/KPF, then he will make a good KPD.

All of this!! Great summary!!

 

[bzparkes]

So, looks like we had a plan after all and for those whinging over a big-bodied inside mid, Dev also just nominated us.

Perhaps the club does know what's wrong with it and is attempting to fix?

 

[eaglevision]

So, looks like we had a plan after all and for those whinging over a big-bodied inside mid, Dev also just nominated us.

Perhaps the club does know what's wrong with it and is attempting to fix?

Jesus we barely beat out North and Richmond for a C- 27yo KPD who’s coming off an ACL and played 7 games in another nepotistic appointment.

We’re picking low lying fruit. Gov going a year early was not something you could plan for but we’ve gone from the best KPD pairing in the league to the worst in two years.

Edwards’ season has been promising but his ceiling is an honest toiler and he needs a very specific athletic partner to cover his lack of pace and agility.

If we’re going to the draft for a KPD it need to be this year or Dougie next year who can play anywhere. Otherwise I hope we’ve got an actual plan that will allow us to compete for a flag in 4-5 years.

 

[bzparkes]

Jesus we barely beat out North and Richmond for a C- 27yo KPD who’s coming off an ACL and played 7 games in another nepotistic appointment.

Yep and not many other options out there but at least this bloke is actually very good defensively and turned down a similar offer to stay in Melbourne to move to the other side of the country.

We’re picking low lying fruit. Gov going a year early was not something you could plan for but we’ve gone from the best KPD pairing in the league to the worst in two years.

Who else are we supposed to bring in exactly? No premier key backs are going to want to move to a one-win team on the opposite side of the country.

Edwards’ season has been promising but his ceiling is an honest toiler and he needs a very specific athletic partner to cover his lack of pace and agility.

Also our only player in the AFL top 100 for the season, which means we had more players in the top 100 than Port Adelaide, who had zero.

If we’re going to the draft for a KPD it need to be this year or Dougie next year who can play anywhere. Otherwise I hope we’ve got an actual plan that will allow us to compete for a flag in 4-5 years.

Well, I daresay we'll be looking at who's available in this draft, although the best(Dean) is of course FS tied. Schubert has merit, if we go down that avenue.

Shanahan in next year's NGA looks promising also, so there's another one on the horizon.

The fact is, we're a very unattractive proposition at the moment but at the very least we were able to recruit a couple of stop gaps, with actual AFL experience, who raise the floor somewhat.

 

[WCE777]

Jesus we barely beat out North and Richmond for a C- 27yo KPD who’s coming off an ACL and played 7 games in another nepotistic appointment.

We’re picking low lying fruit. Gov going a year early was not something you could plan for but we’ve gone from the best KPD pairing in the league to the worst in two years.

Edwards’ season has been promising but his ceiling is an honest toiler and he needs a very specific athletic partner to cover his lack of pace and agility.

If we’re going to the draft for a KPD it need to be this year or Dougie next year who can play anywhere. Otherwise I hope we’ve got an actual plan that will allow us to compete for a flag in 4-5 years.

Were picking low hanging fruit in areas of need because that's all that's willing to come to the club in our worst time.
Its not like we haven't had a crack at everyone and anyone who remotely might come.

2025 Warner/D Cameron/L Neale/Ah Chee/McVee/Starcevich that we know of.
Most likely had a crack at Steele/Flanders/Davies without knowing as we seem to have had multiple chats with players.
Yes we need a KPD now to develop and 2 by the end of 2026.

Our KPD group is B graders an that's what we have.
We also don't know where our draft favourites are.
If we are taking a KP this year it is most likely Schubert to turn into a KPD.

With our rookie extra spots I would expect we have a player in mind like Stumpf who we had some link to earlier.
Otherwise Ainsworth or Thredgold look to be available around 3rd round as other options.

 

[WCE777]

Yep and not many other options out there but at least this bloke is actually very good defensively and turned down a similar offer to stay in Melbourne to move to the other side of the country.



Who else are we supposed to bring in exactly? No premier key backs are going to want to move to a one-win team on the opposite side of the country.



Also our only player in the AFL top 100 for the season, which means we had more players in the top 100 than Port Adelaide, who had zero.



Well, I daresay we'll be looking at who's available in this draft, although the best(Dean) is of course FS tied. Schubert has merit, if we go down that avenue.

Shanahan in next year's NGA looks promising also, so there's another one on the horizon.

The fact is, we're a very unattractive proposition at the moment but at the very least we were able to recruit a couple of stop gaps, with actual AFL experience, who raise the floor somewhat.

Agree with this 100%

 

[Andyy]

Young is a good player. He was good before his ACL (think 2023) and 2024 was ordinary then ACL but back to his best since return.

Has played football for 4 years and shown huge ability with that in mind.

I'm not happy to lose him but I hope he does great over there.

 

[Kegs15]

With you on that view with Young and it pushes Brock as good depth. That would give us Harry, Young, Brock and Bazzo who are all ready to go, albeit a little underwhelming.

So with an eye to the future, I am keen to get Schubert. We split with Dons and give up Duursma to get Sharp at 2 then Cumming and Schubert at 5 and 6 (something going back to Don on this one). Schubert's reading of the play is first class and his marking is up there. I would play him at CHB until Waterman is done then partner him up with Shanahan. Hoping that David Shanahan continues his progression as he looks a nature intercepting CHB.

The other slightly left field is to move Archer to KPD. I actually think he can become the key ruck for us although it will take at least another 2 years. If the ruck rule changes and Archer's projection change halt him from being our next ruck/KPF, then he will make a good KPD.

Absolutely with you on Archer.

Also generally I don't really know why Ruck/KPD is almost never done. I get that you generally want to pick your defence based on who the oppo forward threats are, so maybe across a season it's less versatile, I dunno. But feel like there's so many decent rucks who are just not natural forwards but get put down there and look lost/get in the way of the leading patterns of the established key forwards. Always thought Lycett kind of hampered Kennedy/Darling somewhat when he was fwd while NN was rucking for instance.

You'd also, given how every other team does it, likely be matching up on the opposition's 2nd ruck who's playing forward, and then can just follow them into the ruck when they go in there, so backline keeps the same size ratio?

Wouldn't work with a lump ruck (like I think Flynn would be terrible) but with someone mobile and smart + underrated around the ground foot skills like Archer I reckon it could work. Gawn looks great when he does it but Blicavs is the main example I'm thinking of, feel like it makes Geelong so versatile especially when they (like us hopefully) have good KPF representation otherwise.

 

[Mop]

Absolutely with you on Archer.

Also generally I don't really know why Ruck/KPD is almost never done. I get that you generally want to pick your defence based on who the oppo forward threats are, so maybe across a season it's less versatile, I dunno. But feel like there's so many decent rucks who are just not natural forwards but get put down there and look lost/get in the way of the leading patterns of the established key forwards. Always thought Lycett kind of hampered Kennedy/Darling somewhat when he was fwd while NN was rucking for instance.

You'd also, given how every other team does it, likely be matching up on the opposition's 2nd ruck who's playing forward, and then can just follow them into the ruck when they go in there, so backline keeps the same size ratio?

Wouldn't work with a lump ruck (like I think Flynn would be terrible) but with someone mobile and smart + underrated around the ground foot skills like Archer I reckon it could work. Gawn looks great when he does it but Blicavs is the main example I'm thinking of, feel like it makes Geelong so versatile especially when they (like us hopefully) have good KPF representation otherwise.

I love your post, it made me think.

I would propose the way a resting defender ruck would function would best be as a third tall interceptor type, floating back. Covering rotations, but largely as a spare, roving.

 

[Keys]

I love your post, it made me think.

I would propose the way a resting defender ruck would function would best be as a third tall interceptor type, floating back. Covering rotations, but largely as a spare, roving.

Pretty much describes what Blivacs does who’s something of a unicorn in that there’s nobody else really like him

Defensive structures rely on continuity of personnel and as such aren’t particularly conducive to having someone consistently rotating in/out of the set up. It’s not easy to pull off

 

[Kegs15]

Pretty much describes what Blivacs does who’s something of a unicorn in that there’s nobody else really like him

Defensive structures rely on continuity of personnel and as such aren’t particularly conducive to having someone consistently rotating in/out of the set up. It’s not easy to pull off

That's true in that he's a unicorn (I actually reckon he's had one of the most underrated careers out there, big reason why Geelong can keep adapting their setup and contending IMO).

But with the new ruck rules/interchange it feels likelier that teams will play 2 players who are at least partly rucks - and aside from Blicavs would say 90% of the backups would be spending lots of the game fwd.

So in that case, assuming our two designated KPDs are matched up on two designated KPFs (not always the way admittedly) - if their resting/2nd ruck goes down there they'll either be chopping and changing based on their presence or we play a 3rd KPD. And I'm not sure any of our KPDs including Young are super suited to doing the McGovern role and being hyper offensive, possibly handicapping us if we play 3 KPD who don't have other roles.

But if our 2nd ruck was a KPD too and just followed around their ruck (took them when they went forward, followed them into the bounce) it would mean our KPDs theoretically had the same opponents all game, giving that continuity?

Definitely admit it's probably not often done for a reason haha. It's partly in consideration of our own personnel also. We've got some good KPFs who are more natural than Archer down there and should be getting a game. But also Archer kind of deserves a game too - though I don't think he's up to #1 ruck for a few years as AsterixTheGaul said earlier. So maybe just me trying to shoehorn him in without playing a land of the giants forward line.

However he is athletic, smart, versatile, tougher in the contest than he appears and better on the deck than most talls. I actually think he's not a huge leap away from the attributes of Blicavs - really rate him outside his forward craft. Might be a way to utilise our list (or just a bad idea haha)

 

[Donkers]

Absolutely with you on Archer.

Also generally I don't really know why Ruck/KPD is almost never done. I get that you generally want to pick your defence based on who the oppo forward threats are, so maybe across a season it's less versatile, I dunno. But feel like there's so many decent rucks who are just not natural forwards but get put down there and look lost/get in the way of the leading patterns of the established key forwards. Always thought Lycett kind of hampered Kennedy/Darling somewhat when he was fwd while NN was rucking for instance.

You'd also, given how every other team does it, likely be matching up on the opposition's 2nd ruck who's playing forward, and then can just follow them into the ruck when they go in there, so backline keeps the same size ratio?

Wouldn't work with a lump ruck (like I think Flynn would be terrible) but with someone mobile and smart + underrated around the ground foot skills like Archer I reckon it could work. Gawn looks great when he does it but Blicavs is the main example I'm thinking of, feel like it makes Geelong so versatile especially when they (like us hopefully) have good KPF representation otherwise.

Most rucks in the past haven't been hugely athletic and good at the ground ball with great footy IQ.

So it's either been rest the big dumb brute at FF or on the bench.

Now someone like Archer Reid is an exception to the rule. He is a good field kick, great off the ground, hugely athletic, the right height and reads the play very well. He is just a horrendous shot for goal and his marking is average, not great. So KPD/Ruck actually suits.

If we can move on from Harry Edwards to someone more athletic at FB then it allows Ginbey to play as both an offensive and defensive weapon from defence and then when say Reid is in the Ruck Ginbey can always lock down on the opposition Gorilla / Contested marking player. He can't play on players like Georgiades who read the play so much better than him and he can't play on someone like Sam Darcy because the height difference is just too much. Any more nominal mid tier KPF and he can go both way as he will beat them athletically and he isn't going to get outmuscled.

This setup allows someone like Hutch to go to his primary position which is as a lead up HF whilst still keeping Waterman and Shanahan in the side while also drafting someone like Schubert to fill that Waterman role once he retires.

It also allows for an extra small / mid sized bench rotation / utility. A high half forward who can impact the middle, a more offensive defensive option from the back half whilst Archer is in the ruck etc.

It could also mean having a mid tier ruck with high endurance against teams with super tall forward lines etc.

It gives the coach so many other options and different ways to place the magnets and change up the plan whilst maintaining balance.

It has barely been done because in the past most genuine ruckmen have been a combination of not athletic enough, not good enough at reading the play or just terrible field kicks which leaves you trapped in defence. Archer Reid is not that guy, which is why it can work.

You see a lot more ruck forwards because the kids were very good forwards at lower levels and are tall but aren't quite up to standard to be a genuine KPF at the top level due to missing a key piece and that is normally either athleticism, leading patterns, one touch marking or goal kicking. So they make a serviceable role player. They can play 40% game time in the ruck, 30% up forward and 30% on the bench.

Archer Reid could be one of the most important players to the future of this football club with his versatility. He can match up on a Darcy or one of the King brothers etc or against lead up forwards who are smaller as he has amazing reach and reads the play nigh on as well.

 

[WCE777]

Most rucks in the past haven't been hugely athletic and good at the ground ball with great footy IQ.

So it's either been rest the big dumb brute at FF or on the bench.

Now someone like Archer Reid is an exception to the rule. He is a good field kick, great off the ground, hugely athletic, the right height and reads the play very well. He is just a horrendous shot for goal and his marking is average, not great. So KPD/Ruck actually suits.

If we can move on from Harry Edwards to someone more athletic at FB then it allows Ginbey to play as both an offensive and defensive weapon from defence and then when say Reid is in the Ruck Ginbey can always lock down on the opposition Gorilla / Contested marking player. He can't play on players like Georgiades who read the play so much better than him and he can't play on someone like Sam Darcy because the height difference is just too much. Any more nominal mid tier KPF and he can go both way as he will beat them athletically and he isn't going to get outmuscled.

This setup allows someone like Hutch to go to his primary position which is as a lead up HF whilst still keeping Waterman and Shanahan in the side while also drafting someone like Schubert to fill that Waterman role once he retires.

It also allows for an extra small / mid sized bench rotation / utility. A high half forward who can impact the middle, a more offensive defensive option from the back half whilst Archer is in the ruck etc.

It could also mean having a mid tier ruck with high endurance against teams with super tall forward lines etc.

It gives the coach so many other options and different ways to place the magnets and change up the plan whilst maintaining balance.

It has barely been done because in the past most genuine ruckmen have been a combination of not athletic enough, not good enough at reading the play or just terrible field kicks which leaves you trapped in defence. Archer Reid is not that guy, which is why it can work.

You see a lot more ruck forwards because the kids were very good forwards at lower levels and are tall but aren't quite up to standard to be a genuine KPF at the top level due to missing a key piece and that is normally either athleticism, leading patterns, one touch marking or goal kicking. So they make a serviceable role player. They can play 40% game time in the ruck, 30% up forward and 30% on the bench.

Archer Reid could be one of the most important players to the future of this football club with his versatility. He can match up on a Darcy or one of the King brothers etc or against lead up forwards who are smaller as he has amazing reach and reads the play nigh on as well.

agree with this.
So this raises so many questions.
If Archer was to be a KPD then who is the number 1 ruck going forward?

 

[Obeanie1]

Yep and not many other options out there but at least this bloke is actually very good defensively and turned down a similar offer to stay in Melbourne to move to the other side of the country.



Who else are we supposed to bring in exactly? No premier key backs are going to want to move to a one-win team on the opposite side of the country.



Also our only player in the AFL top 100 for the season, which means we had more players in the top 100 than Port Adelaide, who had zero.



Well, I daresay we'll be looking at who's available in this draft, although the best(Dean) is of course FS tied. Schubert has merit, if we go down that avenue.

Shanahan in next year's NGA looks promising also, so there's another one on the horizon.

The fact is, we're a very unattractive proposition at the moment but at the very least we were able to recruit a couple of stop gaps, with actual AFL experience, who raise the floor somewhat.

We nab Curtin late and between him and Archer Reid we can work out who's CHB and who's CHF.

Both can pinch hit in the ruck.

They can be our future 200+cm beasts. Everyone else can be the shorter and more agile 2nd and 3rd talls.

Job done.

 

[The_Reaper]

We nab Curtin late and between him and Archer Reid we can work out who's CHB and who's CHF.

Both can pinch hit in the ruck.

They can be our future 200+cm beasts. Everyone else can be the shorter and more agile 2nd and 3rd talls.

Job done.

Based on colts, Curtin can kick straight so surely he is the forward

 

[eaglevision]

Would love it if Thredgold slipped through to 34, or we take Curtin or Ainsworth at 41 or rookie. Schubert at 13 would be fine.

Happy to go on record to say Tylar Young is unlikely to move the needle.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Would love it if Thredgold slipped through to 34, or we take Curtin or Ainsworth at 41 or rookie. Schubert at 13 would be fine.

Happy to go on record to say Tylar Young is unlikely to move the needle.

Agree - Young feels more depth than starting CHB.

If Schubert is there at 13, pull the trigger and take him. The problem with Thredgold is that it would be a massive reach at 13 and I suspect he will be gone if Norf keep 25 or 26.

Ainsworth or Curtin at 41 feels about right.

 

[eaglevision]

Agree - Young feels more depth than starting CHB.

If Schubert is there at 13, pull the trigger and take him. The problem with Thredgold is that it would be a massive reach at 13 and I suspect he will be gone if Norf keep 25 or 26.

Ainsworth or Curtin at 41 feels about right.

Assuming picked I’d like to see CDT start as a tall defender with Ginbey next to him. Has the tank and Edwards can take the Thilthorpe types.

North I think will take Emmett and Ludowyke, but you could well be right

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Happy to go on record to say Tylar Young is unlikely to move the needle.

Agree - Young feels more depth than starting CHB.

Think you're both really underrating him. I think he'll prove one of the best recruits in the league next year.