Test The Ashes First Test November 21-25 1300hrs @ Perth Stadium

[Scotland]

Imagine being bowled out twice within 70 overs in 2 days, then having 12 days between tests, and turning down the only opportunity of the tour for a pink ball warm up.

Everything about McCullum as a coach reminds me of the 2015 WC final. Tried to attack Starc, failed, tried to attack Starc, failed, tried to attack Starc and bowled 3rd ball.

 

[DangerSloane]

It's closer than many think but going to say no, Root's best is still fractionally above but it's a lot closer than a lot realise. Think people have to remember how bad Root's England sides have been. Cooks side in 2013 would have beaten a lot of sides that was the best side to tour here for a long time

Its mighty close.
I don't know what the quality of his side has to do with it though. Cook opened so its not like he was protected from the new ball by gun opening bats.

Both avg around 40 against Australia.

 

[western royboy]

Imagine being bowled out twice within 70 overs in 2 days, then having 12 days between tests, and turning down the only opportunity of the tour for a pink ball warm up.

Everything about McCullum as a coach reminds me of the 2015 WC final. Tried to attack Starc, failed, tried to attack Starc, failed, tried to attack Starc and bowled 3rd ball.

Starc haunts Baz

I’ve listened to a number of his and Stokes press conferences…if this continues to head the way it looks they’ll both be gone and it will be an awful long way back

 

[DangerSloane]

Well it’s probably unpopular because it’s untrue.

Averaging 29.2 across 30 innings in New Zealand and South Africa isn’t making runs everywhere, is it. Unless those places don’t exist.

Root averages 33 in Australia which has much more favourable batting conditions than either NZ or SA.

 

[DangerSloane]

Yes so they’ve lost two series, one on openly doctored wickets in Pakistan.

Again, how is this a plan that’s gone ‘badly.’

Do you think Australia would have won their series in Pakistan playing on the two pitches they served up in tests 2/3? I’m guessing you didn’t watch either of those games. The West Indies won a test over there on a pitch prepared exactly the same way after being 7-37 in the first hour. That’s how much of a lottery they were.

Duckett, Root, Pope, even Crawley actually made runs in India. They actually gave themselves a chance in most of the matches there. It was primarily their inability to take wickets that ensured they couldn’t win, not their batting; the second test was determined by Jaiswal’s 200, the rest of the innings scores were virtually identical. They made 320 batting second at Rajkot - unfortunately for them India made 400 twice so the result became a moot point and they folded in the last innings.

They led the first innings by 50 runs in the fourth test, and scored at just 3 an over - 2.5 in the second innings (oh yeah it was Bazball that failed them there ) before losing by 5 wickets.
Again in the final test India piled on 400. Duckett, Pope, Root, Stokes: none of them scored at over 50 strike rate but they simply got out and they trailed by 200 and that’s where the game was lost. Bairstow was the only player guilty of playing in overdrive.

A little deeper analysis than ‘it’s their gameplan that’s costing them’ might help.

Acting like other teams dont play on doctored wickets, or that England dont doctor wickets is strange.

As I said theyve been competitive, but they lost 4-1 in that India series. Only so many moral victories you can claim

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Its mighty close.
I don't know what the quality of his side has to do with it though. Cook opened so its not like he was protected from the new ball by gun opening bats.

Both avg around 40 against Australia.

Cook benefited from the side from 2012-2014 being elite. Just look at that side, it beat up on a lot of sides in that area. Root has done in in more areas, Cook was poor against more than Root even he'd admit his record vs sa is average and NZ isn't any better.

 

[katana]

Well it’s probably unpopular because it’s untrue.

Averaging 29.2 across 30 innings in New Zealand and South Africa isn’t making runs everywhere, is it. Unless those places don’t exist.

on bigfooty everywhere is australia and england and sometimes india.

 

[PhatBoy]

Root averages 33 in Australia which has much more favourable batting conditions than either NZ or SA.

Favourable for who? Australians?
He averages 50 in NZ and SA across 20 tests combined (50 in each, 12 tests in NZ and 8 in SA).

So your argument is Cook has a better average where it’s easier, Root averages 20 more where it’s harder?

 

[Black Diamond]

Starc haunts Baz

I’ve listened to a number of his and Stokes press conferences…if this continues to head the way it looks they’ll both be gone and it will be an awful long way back

Crazy back-and-forth between Stokes and Agnew after day 2. Agnew has been hammering the point that the travelling supporters have made a huge commitment. Stokes needs to be more respectful of them.

Yes, in my weaker moments I do feel bad for the England supporters. Our own tourists have not suffered like them for a very long time. Even in 2013.

 

[Pistol Night]

 

[Borisdog]

Three piss poor takes in four posts has to be some kind of BF record

Go have a look in the SRP pages. There's 4, 5 PAGES sometimes before something faintly sensible is written.

 

[Pistol Night]

Crazy back-and-forth between Stokes and Agnew after day 2. Agnew has been hammering the point that the travelling supporters have made a huge commitment. Stokes needs to be more respectful of them.

Yes, in my weaker moments I do feel bad for the England supporters. Our own tourists have not suffered like them for a very long time. Even in 2013.

Don’t feel any empathy for England supporters. These are the campaigners that chant “Same old Aussies, always cheating” after the hypocritical dickheads tried the same thing multiple times

 

[Pistol Night]

Go have a look in the SRP pages. There's 4, 5 PAGES sometimes before something faintly sensible is written.

That’d be a short streak

 

[Scotland]

David Warner averaged 63 in SA and 26 in England. No one gives him props for the former.

Root's into his 8th Ashes series now. Hasn't won a test in Australia and the last two home series when he was in his prime were drawn.

Cook may have benefited from playing in a good team but he also averaged 127 for an Ashes tour. Like Steve Smith came back in 2019 after his ban and rattled off 200s.

2021/22 Hazelwood played one test, Cummins played 4.
2023 Lyon played two tests, Starc and Hazlewood 4 each.
2025/26 Cummins and Hazlewood missed the first test. And this current side is the worst since 2011 according to Stuart Broad. It's not like Root faced McGrath and Warne every test.

I find it weird that people make excuses for Root like being OK in/vs Australia isn't a big deal. There's a reason that half of England are here and a tour to India or NZ or wherever attracts a fraction of the interest.

 

[Black Diamond]

Don’t feel any empathy for England supporters. These are the campaigners that chant “Same old Aussies, always cheating” after the hypocritical dickheads tried the same thing multiple times

Yes well all supporter groups are like that.

Our own have been very poor at different stages. 2013-14 at the Gabba sticks out.

 

[PhatBoy]

David Warner averaged 63 in SA and 26 in England. No one gives him props for the former.

Root's into his 8th Ashes series now. Hasn't won a test in Australia and the last two home series when he was in his prime were drawn.

Cook may have benefited from playing in a good team but he also averaged 127 for an Ashes tour. Like Steve Smith came back in 2019 after his ban and rattled off 200s.

2021/22 Hazelwood played one test, Cummins played 4.
2023 Lyon played two tests, Starc and Hazlewood 4 each.
2025/26 Cummins and Hazlewood missed the first test. And this current side is the worst since 2011 according to Stuart Broad. It's not like Root faced McGrath and Warne every test.

I find it weird that people make excuses for Root like being OK in/vs Australia isn't a big deal. There's a reason that half of England are here and a tour to India or NZ or wherever attracts a fraction of the interest.

I do. I think he played some of the most underrated knocks in the last 15 years in SA. He took on some brutal attacks and absolutely belted them. His problem was they were a complete aberration for him when it came to overseas batting. Ie. they were basically his only ticks, until he hit two really underrated centuries in a largely forgotten series in Bangladesh.

The reason people say it’s not a big deal is because few - very few - players over the course of their entire careers have had flawless records everywhere.

Why is Shane Warne allowed to be pathetic in India and largely ineffective in the West Indies and still be the greatest spinner (and greatest bowler full stop) to many people, but Joe Root is not allowed to have one gap in his record and no one is even close to saying he’s the best ever or whatever.

Ricky Ponting is universally regarded as at worst, in the top 3 batsmen Australia has produced since Bradman - what, because he once hit 3 figures but otherwise couldn’t get the ball off the popping crease in India everyone just writes that off but Root doesn’t get the same grace? Why? Because of the 11 extra runs that separate Root’s highest score in Australia from a century?

 

[Sonny Hayes]

I do. I think he played some of the most underrated knocks in the last 15 years in SA. He took on some brutal attacks and absolutely belted them. His problem was they were a complete aberration for him when it came to overseas batting. Ie. they were basically his only ticks, until he hit two really underrated centuries in a largely forgotten series in Bangladesh.

The reason people say it’s not a big deal is because few - very few - players over the course of their entire careers have had flawless records everywhere.

Why is Shane Warne allowed to be pathetic in India and largely ineffective in the West Indies and still be the greatest spinner (and greatest bowler full stop) to many people, but Joe Root is not allowed to have one gap in his record and no one is even close to saying he’s the best ever or whatever.

Ricky Ponting is universally regarded as at worst, in the top 3 batsmen Australia has produced since Bradman - what, because he once hit 3 figures but otherwise couldn’t get the ball off the popping crease in India everyone just writes that off but Root doesn’t get the same grace? Why? Because of the 11 extra runs that separate Root’s highest score in Australia from a century?

The only part I disagree with is plenty of people have him very close to the best ever (excluding Bradman).

I think some definitely go too far with discrediting him purely off his one hole in his resume, I do think it’s a big hole when talking about this level of player though.

 

[the_interloper]

Go have a look in the SRP pages. There's 4, 5 PAGES sometimes before something faintly sensible is written.

Funnily enough I reckon I post every 4/5 pages!

 

[western royboy]

The only part I disagree with is plenty of people have him very close to the best ever (excluding Bradman).

I think some definitely go too far with discrediting him purely off his one hole in his resume, I do think it’s a big hole when talking about this level of player though.

All of the considered “Greats” have had some anomaly in their records.

Very few against the considered best side of their era as usually that’s what makes them a great.

 

[PhatBoy]

The only part I disagree with is plenty of people have him very close to the best ever (excluding Bradman).

I think some definitely go too far with discrediting him purely off his one hole in his resume, I do think it’s a big hole when talking about this level of player though.

I think it is ‘a’ hole but is exaggerated somewhat because of this mythical status that the Ashes holds within cricket: for a lot of Root’s career it’s been South Africa and India who have been the best team in the world, and as Ashes goes, he still has 4 hundreds.

right now against the nominal best team in the world (I think SA are quietly emerging as a real contender, pending what happens when they host Australia next year) I don’t doubt that 1-2 big scores would really round things off nicely away from home but he’s done basically everything else he can possibly do

 

[TasSixer]

Isn't it a bit disrespectful to not do the PMs XI game? Not really in the spirit of cricket. Have other teams done it before? I wouldn't have expected their big quicks to play but a few batters at least. Makes too much sense to give them time in the middle against the pink ball.

 

[DangerSloane]

Isn't it a bit disrespectful to not do the PMs XI game? Not really in the spirit of cricket. Have other teams done it before? I wouldn't have expected their big quicks to play but a few batters at least. Makes too much sense to give them time in the middle against the pink ball.

Especially after a 2 day test.
If they'd played a 5 dayer in the heat in Perth then you might understand a break but yeh this is just typical of the Bazball lack of care

 

[Mr Meow]

I do. I think he played some of the most underrated knocks in the last 15 years in SA. He took on some brutal attacks and absolutely belted them. His problem was they were a complete aberration for him when it came to overseas batting. Ie. they were basically his only ticks, until he hit two really underrated centuries in a largely forgotten series in Bangladesh.

The reason people say it’s not a big deal is because few - very few - players over the course of their entire careers have had flawless records everywhere.

Why is Shane Warne allowed to be pathetic in India and largely ineffective in the West Indies and still be the greatest spinner (and greatest bowler full stop) to many people, but Joe Root is not allowed to have one gap in his record and no one is even close to saying he’s the best ever or whatever.

Ricky Ponting is universally regarded as at worst, in the top 3 batsmen Australia has produced since Bradman - what, because he once hit 3 figures but otherwise couldn’t get the ball off the popping crease in India everyone just writes that off but Root doesn’t get the same grace? Why? Because of the 11 extra runs that separate Root’s highest score in Australia from a century?

34 wickets @ 43 average from 9 matches against prime Dravid, Tendulkar, VVS etc in India is hardly "pathetic". There's a way to make points without being guilty of more hyperbole than that of others you accuse around Root.

 

[PhatBoy]

34 wickets @ 43 average from 9 matches against prime Dravid, Tendulkar, VVS etc in India is hardly "pathetic". There's a way to make points without being guilty of more hyperbole than that of others you accuse around Root.

It’s 18 higher than his normal average, and 19 higher than his average combined in all other countries. And that 43 average only dropped to 43 courtesy of 10 wickets in his last 3 innings; and most of them were ordinary players.

Root prior to Perth was averaging 37 against prime Hazlewood, Starc, Cummins, Lyon, Johnson, Harris, Siddle.

I rated Warne as much as the next person: the man was a freak. But what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Apply the standard across the board or not at all

 

[Scotland]

I do. I think he played some of the most underrated knocks in the last 15 years in SA. He took on some brutal attacks and absolutely belted them. His problem was they were a complete aberration for him when it came to overseas batting. Ie. they were basically his only ticks, until he hit two really underrated centuries in a largely forgotten series in Bangladesh.

The reason people say it’s not a big deal is because few - very few - players over the course of their entire careers have had flawless records everywhere.

Why is Shane Warne allowed to be pathetic in India and largely ineffective in the West Indies and still be the greatest spinner (and greatest bowler full stop) to many people, but Joe Root is not allowed to have one gap in his record and no one is even close to saying he’s the best ever or whatever.

Ricky Ponting is universally regarded as at worst, in the top 3 batsmen Australia has produced since Bradman - what, because he once hit 3 figures but otherwise couldn’t get the ball off the popping crease in India everyone just writes that off but Root doesn’t get the same grace? Why? Because of the 11 extra runs that separate Root’s highest score in Australia from a century?

No one is perfect. Warne did nothing in India but dominated in Australia and England which are typically pace friendly conditions. It's a quirk of history that his worst record is in spin friendly conditions, albeit against excellent batsmen familiar with said conditions.

If Root had 7-8,000 runs @ 45-50 no one would really care that he has a poor record in Australia. Even his record vs Australia in England isn't that good. It's fine but not an outlier. But he has 13,500 runs and may end up the top run scorer of all time. He's been scoring for fun the last few years. I mean he's got 8 100s in his last 18 tests prior to the Ashes. That's 1800 runs @ 65. Not a good run of form, a dominant run of form. He's been a level above almost everyone else for a few years now. When Steve Smith was at the peak of his powers who was bowling and where wasn't a major consideration. You just expected he would keep making runs and were surprised when he didn't. With Root you sort of expect that he might average 30 or 40 for the series then go back to scoring bulk runs against whoever they play next.

It could be worse, he could be in a different tier of conversation altogether. Small margins at the top.