Test The Ashes First Test November 21-25 1300hrs @ Perth Stadium

[Bareth Garry]

Barrington intrigues me. Averaged 58 in Tests, 69 overseas and barely rates a mention anywhere assumedly because he was so dull to watch but that average suggest he must have been a bastard to get out.

I've heard him be described as the original Jaques Kallis in the sense he was capable of batting faster and more aggressive but chose not to do it more often that not. He wasn't like a Boycott or Chris Tavare who didn't have those shots in his game and had to compensate it for sheer concentration and minimal risks. Barrington did play some aggressive innings but like Kallis he held that back for for a higher weight of runs.

 

[Mr Meow]

A bowling average of 43 is worse than a mid 30s batting average.

Root's had a lot more matches/chances to bring that average up covering a 13 year period. Twice as many opportunities by the time the MCG Test is done. And those Tests in Australia will have taken twice as heavy a proportion of his career. In reality Warne just had 2 underwhelming series covering 6 matches in India in '98 and '01. So we're not talking about a long time or many Tests. '04 he sorted himself out.

Warne of course did end up with a big contribution in a series win in India: 14 wickets from 3 matches @30 average in 2004; unluckily he didn't get to play on the 4th Test minefield where both sides struggled to score (series was already won, however).

If Root does similar, including a memorable match winning 150 I'm sure the blemish won't be focussed on as much.

 

[sr36]

Root's had a lot more matches/chances to bring that average up covering a 13 year period. Twice as many opportunities by the time the MCG Test is done. And those Tests in Australia will have taken twice as heavy a proportion of his career. In reality Warne just had 2 underwhelming series covering 6 matches in India in '98 and '01. So we're not talking about a long time or many Tests. '04 he sorted himself out.

Warne of course did end up with a big contribution in a series win in India: 14 wickets from 3 matches @30 average in 2004; unluckily he didn't get to play on the 4th Test minefield where both sides struggled to score (series was already won, however).

If Root does similar, including a memorable match winning 150 I'm sure the blemish won't be focussed on as much.

It's more than just the averages and results for me. I think Root's batted really well and been in control multiple innings in Australia - just made an error and didn't go in with it. I was in India for that your in 1998. First test Warne got a few in the first innings. Second innings Tendulkar just said this guys not that dangerous and took him to the cleaners and he didn't trouble them for the rest of the series. Unlike Root, I don't think he adjusted to the conditions. He was too slow and it didn't matter what it was doing off the pitch, they were adjusting with ease. Meanwhile Kumble had us in all sorts.

Nonetheless they're both greats of the game.

 

[Big Bryza]

id be pretty stunned if we named Kawaja unless he is 100% good to go.

Seems like a dumb risk to take at this point, when Renshaw is all but good to replace him.

Rest him and give his his farewell at the SCG, once we have the series wrapped up!

Ussie should be dropped and definitely no farwell. This is test cricket ffs.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Wouldn't have thought there'd be many if any test matches where 3/4 innings had the first wicket go down with the score on 0.

 

[AJ_2000]

Wouldn't have thought there'd be many if any test matches where 3/4 innings had the first wicket go down with the score on 0.

First time i believe that the first 3 innings started 1/0

 

[PhatBoy]

In a series where multiple players averaged over 100.

Same as the 2004 BG Trophy saw multiple players average 25 or less, and in Jason Gillespie’s case he took 20 wickets at 16, as opposed to 14 wickets at 30. We can do this all day and it’s just going to look the same way, only difference being that Australia won a series.

 

[Pistol Night]

Ussie should be dropped and definitely no farwell. This is test cricket ffs.

Just give him a lap of honour at the SCG

 

[AJ_2000]

The selectors were brutal when it was time to move on from Ian Healy. I hope they still have the same ruthless streak

Adam Gilchrist replaced Ian Healy as Australia's wicketkeeper in late 1999, with the selectors choosing the emerging gloveman for the first Test against Pakistan at the Gabba. Healy, who had hoped for a farewell match in Brisbane, was dropped after a recent poor run of form

 

[Cleavy]

Just give him a lap of honour at the SCG

if he wants to keep his spot, give him a bunch of hard trivia questions, and then he has to sink the putt like the Price is Right golf game.

 

[Gough]

The selectors were brutal when it was time to move on from Ian Healy. I hope they still have the same ruthless streak

Adam Gilchrist replaced Ian Healy as Australia's wicketkeeper in late 1999, with the selectors choosing the emerging gloveman for the first Test against Pakistan at the Gabba. Healy, who had hoped for a farewell match in Brisbane, was dropped after a recent poor run of form

The idea of being owed a farewell tour is just another shit precedent set by Steve Waugh.

 

[Cleavy]

The selectors were brutal when it was time to move on from Ian Healy. I hope they still have the same ruthless streak

Adam Gilchrist replaced Ian Healy as Australia's wicketkeeper in late 1999, with the selectors choosing the emerging gloveman for the first Test against Pakistan at the Gabba. Healy, who had hoped for a farewell match in Brisbane, was dropped after a recent poor run of form

the selectors were right and Healy is still bitter about it (regardless of what he says).

 

[the_interloper]

Some people have tried to undervalue Bradman over the years saying the bowling wasn't as good, etc, but I just say that doesn't account for the fact he doubled the average of every other batsman in that era.

Yeah it's tough to compare eras of course, you can do so a lot more accurately with players in the same era. Bradman is way further ahead of number 2 in his era than anyone has ever been. You could argue he's the greatest sportsman of all, I can't think of another sport where the GOAT is absolutely never in question.

 

[western royboy]

The selectors were brutal when it was time to move on from Ian Healy. I hope they still have the same ruthless streak

Adam Gilchrist replaced Ian Healy as Australia's wicketkeeper in late 1999, with the selectors choosing the emerging gloveman for the first Test against Pakistan at the Gabba. Healy, who had hoped for a farewell match in Brisbane, was dropped after a recent poor run of form

Emerging? You could argue that Healy held back Gilchrist far longer than he should have. He was 28 when he debuted in Test Cricket. Healy was trying to hang on for as long as possible and when he refused to read the room, the Selectors said enough.

Far from brutal.

 

[PhatBoy]

Yeah it's tough to compare eras of course, you can do so a lot more accurately with players in the same era. Bradman is way further ahead of number 2 in his era than anyone has ever been. You could argue he's the greatest sportsman of all, I can't think of another sport where the GOAT is absolutely never in question.

Ice hockey.

 

[Pistol Night]

Yeah it's tough to compare eras of course, you can do so a lot more accurately with players in the same era. Bradman is way further ahead of number 2 in his era than anyone has ever been. You could argue he's the greatest sportsman of all, I can't think of another sport where the GOAT is absolutely never in question.

MJ

 

[Southerntakeover]

Same as the 2004 BG Trophy saw multiple players average 25 or less, and in Jason Gillespie’s case he took 20 wickets at 16, as opposed to 14 wickets at 30. We can do this all day and it’s just going to look the same way, only difference being that Australia won a series.

I said Warne found a way to contribute in India. To a series win. In the last cricket he played there. Including a five wicket haul. None of that has been rebutted. He of course missed the best bowling conditions of the tour by breaking his thumb.

You said he was "pathetic".

Root made no meaningful contribution in a whitewash against on a series played on roads, with no centuries, and has continued to fail since.

I don't think you actually think they're equivalent, I think you hadn't known much about Warne on the 2004 tour had only looked at the overall average, and are now clutching trying to pretend you didn't make massive prat out of yourself again.

I mean, trying to pretend 25 is to 30 what 47 is to 100. Shameless.

 

[Gough]

Yeah it's tough to compare eras of course, you can do so a lot more accurately with players in the same era. Bradman is way further ahead of number 2 in his era than anyone has ever been. You could argue he's the greatest sportsman of all, I can't think of another sport where the GOAT is absolutely never in question.

Women's squash is a niche sport but Heather McKay not losing a game between 1962 and 1981 is pretty impressive.

 

[Hojuman]

If it hasn't been posted:

 

[PhatBoy]

Emerging? You could argue that Healy held back Gilchrist far longer than he should have. He was 28 when he debuted in Test Cricket. Healy was trying to hang on for as long as possible and when he refused to read the room, the Selectors said enough.

Far from brutal.

It’s interesting.
Gilchrist undoubtedly earned his spot, no question.

But a look at his Shield efforts makes it a bit less clear cut.

He had been good - above average - but not absolutely demanding selection.
He had hit 2444 runs at 37 in the six seasons before that and he had a good deal of help from some not-outs.

6 centuries across 6 seasons, one season with more than 500 runs; for context, the top 5 run scorers were all hitting 900+ each year generally, his best was 757 in 1995-96.

His best year average wise was 1997-98 and that came courtesy of 421 runs at 60; largely boosted by 3 not outs from his 10 innings, and half of those runs came in one innings.

Undoubtedly his freak one day batting, and the fact that he was showing he could produce the occasional exceptional knock in long format cricket meant he was a logical successor to Healy but he wasn’t absolutely belting the door down. He’d only averaged more than 40 twice in his career for a season and one of those occasions came almost half a decade before he eventually got his chance (95-96)

 

[PhatBoy]

I said Warne found a way to contribute in India. To a series win. In the last cricket he played there. Including a five wicket haul. None of that has been rebutted. He of course missed the best bowling conditions of the tour by breaking his thumb.

You said he was "pathetic".

Root made no meaningful contribution in a whitewash against on a series played on roads, with no centuries, and has continued to fail since.

I don't think you actually think they're equivalent, I think you hadn't known much about Warne on the 2004 tour had only looked at the overall average, and are now clutching trying to pretend you didn't make massive prat out of yourself again.

I mean, trying to pretend 25 is to 30 what 47 is to 100. Shameless.

Relatively speaking it is.

Sorry mate but if you’ve read anything I’ve written about cricket I’m pretty sure you know I’m fully aware of Warne’s contributions to virtually every series he ever played and any regular poster in this forum, the ones who like me and the ones who don’t, will back me up on that. Whether you agree with my opinion on his quality over there or not is irrelevant.

 

[Bareth Garry]

Root's go-to shot to get to the non strikers end and quietly keep the scoreboard moving is the little nudge to third man. If there's no fielder there he can get a boundary. After 2 or 3 of those, one slip fielder is taken out to keep that shot down to a single. Root plays with soft hands on the backfoot and everywhere in the world that shot is successful ... except in Australia where the bounce of the ball is higher up and he can't keep the ball down because he typically comes in against a new ball as no opening pair have succeeded in any of his tours. He needs to stop playing the shot until the ball gets older and focus on scoring in front of the wicket. He's going to take Tendulkar's record but Tendulkar famously resisted playing his best shot the cover drive to get a double century in Australia while out of form.

 

[the_interloper]

Ice hockey.

Yeah I did think of that, I thought I'd heard other answers than Gretzky though, not the case in cricket.

MJ

Nope, people say Lebron, I think you could make a strong case for Chamberlain actually given how dominant he was. Again, not as clear cut as cricket. Cricket is very statistically driven though so we have good concrete evidence of the gap between Bradman and the rest, NBA tends to rely a lot on championships which is why I think Bill Russell is overrated.

Women's squash is a niche sport but Heather McKay not losing a game between 1962 and 1981 is pretty impressive.

Yeah fair enough. Actually I'd always heard about Jansher Khan in that sport, think he did something similar.

 

[PhatBoy]

Yeah I did think of that, I thought I'd heard other answers than Gretzky though, not the case in cricket.



Nope, people say Lebron, I think you could make a strong case for Chamberlain actually given how dominant he was. Again, not as clear cut as cricket. Cricket is very statistically driven though so we have good concrete evidence of the gap between Bradman and the rest, NBA tends to rely a lot on championships which is why I think Bill Russell is overrated.



Yeah fair enough. Actually I'd always heard about Jansher Khan in that sport, think he did something similar.

Not that I agree with this necessarily but I’ve heard arguments put forward for Sobers in cricket. I don’t see that it stacks up because, quite simply, it doesn’t. And the couple of names I’ve heard in hockey - I think from memory Gordie Howe was one of them - he doesn’t either.

On an unrelated note I just saw a horse not unlike Shadowfax from Lord of the Rings simply running down my street while I have a smoke on my morning break

 

[the_interloper]

Not that I agree with this necessarily but I’ve heard arguments put forward for Sobers in cricket. I don’t see that it stacks up because, quite simply, it doesn’t. And the couple of names I’ve heard in hockey - I think from memory Gordie Howe was one of them - he doesn’t either.

On an unrelated note I just saw a horse not unlike Shadowfax from Lord of the Rings simply running down my street while I have a smoke on my morning break

Yeah I had heard Howe mentioned as well, I know nothing about that sport so not prepared to argue that one.

If you're talking all round cricketers Sobers is a good choice, great bat obviously, bowled quick and spin and a great fielder too. I'd argue Kallis is at least his peer though, but if you're picking a greatest team ever Bradman first, put him at 3 and then worry about the rest.