Test The Ashes First Test November 21-25 1300hrs @ Perth Stadium

[Cleavy]

They’re just creating a new rating of “perfect, the greatest pitch ever maybe? Definitely top ten, maybe top 2, who knows, they say it’s the best they’ve ever seen, these guys are smart guys, they’ve seen a lot of pitches”

moral pitch victory

 

[240volt]

Are you suggesting there may some corruption around cricket when India are involved? Blasphemy

It was a lot more honest when they had Indian umpires for home test matches

 

[jannissary]

what's the deal with indian media sooking it up over grovel being used?

 

[Kappa]

what's the deal with indian media sooking it up over grovel being used?

It was once used in 1970 which means its racist or something

 

[grumbleguts]

I wonder how Mitchell Starc feels watching this?

 

[Gough]

It was once used in 1970 which means its racist or something

I think he could have used a better word.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

moral pitch victory

“They tell me it’s a ‘moral pitch’, India says that, smart guys. I heard they had a bad pitch in Perth, terrible pitch - you know I’ve seen some bad pitches like in … and they were bad, but this is a bad pitch, maybe the worst. But the pitch in India is great, I know the guys, great guys

 

[MarcMaverick]

It was once used in 1970 which means its racist or something

Didn't Tony Greig said that when the Poms were touring the WIndies in the 80s?

 

[Kappa]

I think he could have used a better word.

Its certainly a rude word, but saying its racist is just moronic.

 

[JackOutback]

Its certainly a rude word, but saying its racist is just moronic.

This is one of those situations where, if you are white like me, you don’t get to decide that because you never would have heard it in that context. I agree that I haven’t but grovel is certainly adjacent to subservient and black people throughout history have been treated as subservient and expected to beg or ‘grovel’ for the bare minimum. If it’s been used in that context before, it certainly can be racist. And if you’ve heard that it caused controversy previously, it would seem stupid to repeat it.

The thing is, grovel doesn’t even work in the context he used it. The closest you could get would be ‘I want them to beg for mercy’, which wouldn’t have had the same response, I imagine.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Its certainly a rude word, but saying its racist is just moronic.

Tony Grieg said it about the West Indies in the 1970s.

He may not have meant it in a racist manner. But a white man with a South African accent during the apartheid era using a term implying a black team should be subservient was always going to be ugly and controversial.

It just carries too much baggage to say it without causing a mess....

 

[PhatBoy]

Not sure how anyone with any understanding of cricket history can’t see how Conrad’s choice of word isn’t at least a little bit silly: and I’m a fairly strong supporter of the SA side.

Even when Greig himself said it he acknowledged shortly afterwards that it was a bad thing to say, and at one point during the series that followed when his side was being utterly humiliated he got on his knees in the outfield in front of a group of Caribbean expats and bowed to them as if to ‘grovel’ himself.

 

[010203]

Anyone actually surprised by this ranking - surely this was common sense

ICC hands down verdict on Perth pitch after rapid Ashes Test | cricket.com.au

The quickest Ashes Test in 137 years saw Australia take a 1-0 series lead inside two days, with 19...

www.cricket.com.au

Some Indians will be I'm sure but anybody who watched the game would attribute 19 wickets falling on day 1 to the poor batting and quality bowling by both sides.

 

[Borisdog]

don't quite follow how they haven't given a rating to the Indian pitch, but rated this one first. seems suspicious

The Second Test in India finished after the First Test in Australia.

Have they not even rated the First Test pitch in India yet?

The second Test pitch in India was fine - nothing wrong with it.

The first one was not great, but far from the worst I've seen there.

 

[PhatBoy]

The Second Test in India finished after the First Test in Australia.

Have they not even rated the First Test pitch in India yet?

The second Test pitch in India was fine - nothing wrong with it.

The first one was not great, but far from the worst I've seen there.

Wicket every 30.9 balls.
Perth was one every 26.4 balls.

But batsmen were trying to survive in Kolkata. They were trying to get out in Perth.

I agree there’s been worse pitches in India and the fact is that across the two sides there isn’t a single ‘notable’ player of spin bowling left anymore which doesn’t help. But they need to be conscious that a poor ‘low and spinning’ track, while some purists might actually enjoy watching it (I do) most people won’t. For starters it’s hard to score runs; Perth at least offset the apparent difficulty of staying at the crease by also making it easy to score if you were willing to attack. Unfortunately when it’s hard to survive on a spinning pitch it’s also very hard to score: the ball doesn’t fly around and give you pace or bounce to work with and give you SOMETHING back like some helpful fast bowling pitches might.

Worth noting that the fastest, and equal sixth fastest test centuries in history have come when a side was in all sorts of trouble at 4-nothing (McCullum’s) and in a game where 3 innings had been completed for 172 or less (Head’s) on pitches that were seemingly helping out anyone who was bowling at any sort of velocity

 

[Groucho]

Tony Grieg said it about the West Indies in the 1970s.

He may not have meant it in a racist manner. But a white man with a South African accent during the apartheid era using a term implying a black team should be subservient was always going to be ugly and controversial.

It just carries too much baggage to say it without causing a mess....

Whispering Death soon sorted him out

 

[Borisdog]

Wicket every 30.9 balls.
Perth was one every 26.4 balls.

But batsmen were trying to survive in Kolkata. They were trying to get out in Perth.

I agree there’s been worse pitches in India and the fact is that across the two sides there isn’t a single ‘notable’ player of spin bowling left anymore which doesn’t help. But they need to be conscious that a poor ‘low and spinning’ track, while some purists might actually enjoy watching it (I do) most people won’t. For starters it’s hard to score runs; Perth at least offset the apparent difficulty of staying at the crease by also making it easy to score if you were willing to attack. Unfortunately when it’s hard to survive on a spinning pitch it’s also very hard to score: the ball doesn’t fly around and give you pace or bounce to work with and give you SOMETHING back like some helpful fast bowling pitches might.

Worth noting that the fastest, and equal sixth fastest test centuries in history have come when a side was in all sorts of trouble at 4-nothing (McCullum’s) and in a game where 3 innings had been completed for 172 or less (Head’s) on pitches that were seemingly helping out anyone who was bowling at any sort of velocity

I like watching a turner. Day 1 with one ball shin high, 2 balls later sailing over the head isn't, however, a good look.

The main difference between something that's turning considerably on Day 1 and a green-top on Day 1 is the green-top will get better IF you last long enough.

I don't have the inclination to look but I wonder what the "Win the toss, win the match" stats look like at Indian grounds vs other nations' grounds since, say, 1990. It's likely not be "proving" anything statistically but my gut feeling is you have a better chance winning a game outside of India if you lose the toss compared to if you lose the toss in India.

 

[the_interloper]

Whispering Death soon sorted him out

Well yeah I wouldn't want to face a pissed off Holding (or any of their other guys for that matter)

 

[240volt]

Wicket in the last India test match couldn’t have been that bad as South Africa made 489.
India are just total pants at the moment.

 

[240volt]

Whispering Death soon sorted him out

I remember seeing Holding bowl at Adelaide oval.
As a kid I found it amazing just how far back the wicket keeper was standing.
Watching him bowl from side on it was like now you see it now you don’t.
Such a relaxed rhythmical action, never seen anything like him since.

 

[Borisdog]

Wicket in the last India test match couldn’t have been that bad as South Africa made 489.
India are just total pants at the moment.

It was good. We're talking about the first test. And yes, India weren't good.

 

[PhatBoy]

I like watching a turner. Day 1 with one ball shin high, 2 balls later sailing over the head isn't, however, a good look.

The main difference between something that's turning considerably on Day 1 and a green-top on Day 1 is the green-top will get better IF you last long enough.

I don't have the inclination to look but I wonder what the "Win the toss, win the match" stats look like at Indian grounds vs other nations' grounds since, say, 1990. It's likely not be "proving" anything statistically but my gut feeling is you have a better chance winning a game outside of India if you lose the toss compared to if you lose the toss in India.

Pretty much agree with all of that. I love watching cricket in Asia and watching the genuine masters of spin bowling, whether it is the grinding ones like Dravid or Pujara or going back a bit, a Salim Malik who for all his reputational flaws was a fantastic cricketer who could really grind an opposition into the ground on a Pakistani deck, or the in-between ones like Azharuddin or Inzamam or Mahela who used the crease and their hands brilliantly but could also defend, or the attackers like Ganguly, Sachin and Sanga and Clarke and Lara, Laxman, who were always trying to get forward either from the crease or with their feet but could go right back and turn a ball that wasn’t very short into a long hop. Or Sehwag who would just run at them and pop them over the top. There’s few if any left. I’m hoping Kamindu Mendis fills that breach. Sharma was a fine player of spin. He’s gone now.

You’re right, New Zealand and England are perfect examples of the ethos that it gets easier if you can last the distance - the toss becomes a debate because you know that if you can survive you can cash in later. If you have to bowl first you can make the most of it then have your turn with the bat. In Asia as you say on some of those wickets it’s just a no brainer: bat because it’s only gonna get worse

 

[dumb]

The selectors were brutal when it was time to move on from Ian Healy. I hope they still have the same ruthless streak

Adam Gilchrist replaced Ian Healy as Australia's wicketkeeper in late 1999, with the selectors choosing the emerging gloveman for the first Test against Pakistan at the Gabba. Healy, who had hoped for a farewell match in Brisbane, was dropped after a recent poor run of form

there was that very unusual odi series in '97 in south africa where healy and gilchrist both played a few games in the same 11.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Whispering Death soon sorted him out

Well yeah I wouldn't want to face a pissed off Holding (or any of their other guys for that matter)

Yep, Big Bird and Marshall with Walsh and Ambrose. Bruises aplenty.

 

[240volt]

Yep, Big Bird and Marshall with Walsh and Ambrose. Bruises aplenty.

A lot of batsman said they found Garner the hardest to face.
Biggest problem with him was being so tall it was very difficult to actually pick up the length when he bowled.