Bazball 2024

[kickazz]

The player that is of course not there who was the fulcrum of Bazzball when it started is Bairstow.

Shame he isn't playing

 

[western royboy]

It seems to be a way to mitigate the fact that England don't have many batsmen capable on knuckling down through tough periods (obviously a few like Stokes, Root ect can).

I might have less strong feelings towards it if the English didn't carry on like they've invented aggressive cricket.

The 2023 series really rubbed me the wrong way, the way they carried on after they lost the first test saying the "played all the cricket in the game". The cult that has been created around bazball is embarrassing

Don’t get sucked in. They’ve got other options but this regime is all in on the same type of player and only that type of player.

Sibley, Foakes amongst others have been jettisoned to bring in Bazballers. Bethell is a very good white ball prospect but he’s not anywhere near a Test No.3. He’s the only reserve batsman they’ve got.

 

[Bucking Beads]

The idea that aggressive cricket is called Bazball is part of the problem. They've patted themselves ont he back about being entertainers but at the end of the day the fans want winners!

 

[kickazz]

The idea that aggressive cricket is called Bazball is part of the problem. They've patted themselves ont he back about being entertainers but at the end of the day the fans want winners!

Yep winning comes first.

As a fan, if I can't get wins then the next best thing is a side that applies themselves and gives it a real go in the face of adversity.

It takes courage to be vulnerable enough to apply yourself to something knowing that failure may still come to pass. There is honour in that courage and you can grow from it. England's bubble won't let that vulnerability in.

 

[melanChronic]

Don’t get sucked in. They’ve got other options but this regime is all in on the same type of player and only that type of player.

Sibley, Foakes amongst others have been jettisoned to bring in Bazballers. Bethell is a very good white ball prospect but he’s not anywhere near a Test No.3. He’s the only reserve batsman they’ve got.

ECB should revive the Gentleman vs Players match concept but instead have Bazballers vs a best XI from the county system. I imagine there'd be a few players like Foakes who would love the opportunity to grind these charlatans that have robbed them of playing test cricket.

TBH it's bullshit that a national team is being run like a Premier League side where the coach and captain get to handpick the XI based on the style they want to play rather than working with the best eleven cricketers based on performance.

 

[Cotchin 9]

Bring back Ben Foakes

Just for Foakesy

 

[PhatBoy]

You’d swear blind that Ben Foakes is the first keeper in history to miss a spot to a superior batsman. The bloke has had more sympathy than Africa in the mid-1980s.

 

[Rabish Binney]

You’d swear blind that Ben Foakes is the first keeper in history to miss a spot to a superior batsman. The bloke has had more sympathy than Africa in the mid-1980s.

And there is the dilemma....

Do you play a keeper who is excellent with the gloves but perhaps not as good as a keeper who isn't that good with the gloves but can bat better?

If it is the latter, then you have to accept that chances will be botched ....but then how long do you persist with that player, especially if the botched chances cause a lot of scoreboard damage?

 

[Permission Capable]

And there is the dilemma....

Do you play a keeper who is excellent with the gloves but perhaps not as good as a keeper who isn't that good with the gloves but can bat better?

If it is the latter, then you have to accept that chances will be botched ....but then how long do you persist with that player, especially if the botched chances cause a lot of scoreboard damage?

Part of their general attitude towards basics though isn't it? You just will not get away with a low standard keeper in test cricket. Or not against decent sides. Oh but they might be a chance to score more runs? What does it help what they might do when over the course of a series they WILL give everything they make and more back behind the stumps. They're style puts enough pressure on bowlers with short turnarounds, having a sh!t keeper is the last thing they need.

 

[evolved2]

Basically it boils down to this:

• Duckett plays his cricket very fast but generally isn’t just absolutely stupid. He bats not unlike David Warner, he’s just a naturally fast scorer at the crease and his technique while not especially orthodox, is reasonably reliable.
• Crawley doesn’t score as quick but scores fast, but is also less reliable.
• Brook scores at breakneck speed and seemingly always plays that way.
• Root, Stokes and Pope will play fast if they can, but will play slow if they need to
• smith since he has come in has always played fast but he’s been exposed a bit here

The player that is of course not there who was the fulcrum of Bazzball when it started is Bairstow.

He was uninhibited and just went to town a few times in those big chases against NZ and his fast-and-loose approach was what it was all about.

I'm sure someone smarter than me can compare Bazball vs pre-Bazball stats on the test batting average and strike rate of Joe Root, and it would be a fun exercise to see the change in Ben Stokes' batting and bowling averages too.

I suspect all have improved.

 

[PhatBoy]

I'm sure someone smarter than me can compare Bazball vs pre-Bazball stats on the test batting average and strike rate of Joe Root, and it would be a fun exercise to see the change in Ben Stokes' batting and bowling averages too.

I suspect all have improved.

All you have to do for Stokes is basically go to StatsGuru and put the ‘as captain’ filter on

 

[evolved2]

And there is the dilemma....

Do you play a keeper who is excellent with the gloves but perhaps not as good as a keeper who isn't that good with the gloves but can bat better?

If it is the latter, then you have to accept that chances will be botched ....but then how long do you persist with that player, especially if the botched chances cause a lot of scoreboard damage?

There's no space for a keeper who can't bat in a modern test team. They need to be an all rounder.

You're competing on both facets for a place in the side.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Comparing Foakes to Smith is too early to tell.
Smith has had one great series at home vs India but other than that played the dregs of test cricket.
Pak, SL, WI. Not much stock to be put into doing well against them.

Let's see what his average is after a couple series against each of Ind, Aus, SA.

As for Bazball, surely there's no defenders of it left on here. Surely.

 

[evolved2]

All you have to do for Stokes is basically go to StatsGuru and put the ‘as captain’ filter on

Bowling


Batting

 

[Pistol Night]

There's no space for a keeper who can't bat in a modern test team. They need to be an all rounder.

You're competing on both facets for a place in the side.

Gilly ****ed that good and proper for all those keepers averaging in the teens

 

[Pistol Night]

Bring back Ben Foakes

Just for Foakesy

And Woakes. Time to unleash Foakes, Stokes and Woakes to confuse us as a last resort

 

[t_94]

Bazball to me seems like a reaction to the mass appeal of t20 cricket an appealing to a new age of cricketers without attention spans or any sort of grit.

If it catches on and we start seeing 2 day tests regularly it will be bad for the format IMO.

Don't get me wrong I like t20s, just like I like ODIs and I like attacking cricket.

But attacking just for the sake of it to me is not what a test cricket is about.

It was a reaction to the cycle of timidity and failure that England had found themselves in. Seems to have run its course now.

 

[melanChronic]

With Foakes it's not even that he's an inferior batsman. He's got a fine record with the bat, 2 test tons and 17 in FC cricket, given a fair run in the test team he would average low to mid 30s which is great for a keeper-batsman.

It's more that he doesn't bat with the right attacking intent, and apparently openly questioned the wisdom of Bazball so was then exiled. Remember the keeper position holds a special importance in upholding McCullum's image.

 

[Permission Capable]

There's no space for a keeper who can't bat in a modern test team. They need to be an all rounder.

You're competing on both facets for a place in the side.

Even less space for a keeper that can't keep.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Gilly ****ed that good and proper for all those keepers averaging in the teens

And Dujon and Marsh before him

 

[PhatBoy]

Comparing Foakes to Smith is too early to tell.
Smith has had one great series at home vs India but other than that played the dregs of test cricket.
Pak, SL, WI. Not much stock to be put into doing well against them.

Let's see what his average is after a couple series against each of Ind, Aus, SA.

As for Bazball, surely there's no defenders of it left on here. Surely.

The dregs of test cricket who won a test in that series (Sri Lanka) - and actually have a good test attack and are the dregs for the reason that they can’t bat, not because they can’t bowl (West Indies). Smith is very much a player who until these last two tests who had pretty much done everything asked of him and even in one of those innings was actually batting pretty well and left on a hiding to nothing and had to just hoist the bat at everything.

Why do you have such an obsessive hatred of it and anyone’s opinion that gives it a modicum of backing?

It’s a game plan. It isn’t a religion or a political regime

This is it. This is the most fundamental breakdown anyone can give of what ‘Bazzball’ - a word coined not by the team but by Cricinfo writer Andrew McGlashan - actually is:

“A cricket team that was really shit and had 1 top 6 batsman averaging over 40 in the post-Cook era and scoring very slowly won 1 test in 17 and made some changes, won some tests that were highlighted by three huge run chases that came at one-day speed and they followed this by winning an away series in Pakistan where they broke a record for scoring rates in a series. In the time since they have encouraged their batsmen to play positively and use aggressive tactics to score their runs and it has led to a better sequence of results than what preceded it, however as they still don’t boast a great bowling attack and the tactic, like most, is not foolproof, and has been applied with low flexibility, it is still fallible and has led to some poor and at times embarrassing results also.’

 

[MisterMarcus]

You’d swear blind that Ben Foakes is the first keeper in history to miss a spot to a superior batsman. The bloke has had more sympathy than Africa in the mid-1980s.

The 'superior batsman' still has to be a very good keeper, though.

Has picking a "batsman who can keep" ever really worked in Test cricket?

 

[Permission Capable]

Gilly ****ed that good and proper for all those keepers averaging in the teens

He did. But just because he, Sanga, De Kock, ABD and whoever else were extreme talents doesn't mean you try to create that situation for yourself with someone not up to it with the gloves. Having a better standard keeper that's ordinary with the bat sucks. But it's better than going with the opposite. The top 6 are there to make the runs, and they aren't.

 

[PhatBoy]

The 'superior batsman' still has to be a very good keeper, though.

Has picking a "batsman who can keep" ever really worked in Test cricket?

AB de Villiers averaged 60 as a batsman who could keep and didn’t really impact on the quality of their output as a side.

 

[evolved2]

AB de Villiers averaged 60 as a batsman who could keep and didn’t really impact on the quality of their output as a side.

Gilly was brought into the Aus XI as a batsman who could keep, displacing a keeper who could bat.