Have Richmond passed North and west coast

[ShereKhan]

lol we're comparing North and Richmond. We don't need to be close to these teams prior to 2027/2028.

We still have time to develop and improve.

All we have to worry about is Goater, George, Wardlaw, Comben, Dawson, Whitlock, Goad etc getting through the year unscathed and keep improving. In Goater and George's case, they need to get out there so we can finally stop playing our imported salary cap thieves.

Team 15 hasn't got as good a defence as Teams 1-5, call CNN. JFC. I'm sure that sounded like a "gotcha" when you came up with it, but no, no, no.

Which defenders are confirmed to be quality on North’s list 7-years into the build?

I’m not talking about ‘promising’ or ‘coming back from injury’ or ‘just needs a chance ‘ ….

I see names like Goater (12 games in 4 years). Dawson (6 games in 2 years). Whitlock (2 games). Hardeman (22). Pink is a battler. Logue is a battler. Corr and McDonald nearly cooked. Daniel is poor. FOS wasn’t picked at #2 to play half back.

Your build has produced quality mids, quality flankers, quality forwards … and no quality defenders other than Comben, and even he’s not yet a really high class defenders.

7-years into the build and you should have 4 x bonafide high quality defenders aged 22-27yo. You’ve got 1.

If Goater, Whitlock, Dawson and friends develop quickly and turn into quality then it may be ok. It’s a big if though.

The Roos defence over the last 6-years has been 17th, 18th, 18th, 17th, 18th, 17th. So whoever has been there hasn’t been defending well.

 

[the big lebowski]

Which defenders are confirmed to be quality on North’s list 7-years into the build?

I’m not talking about ‘promising’ or ‘coming back from injury’ or ‘just needs a chance ‘ ….

I see names like Goater (12 games in 4 years). Dawson (6 games in 2 years). Whitlock (2 games). Hardeman (22). Pink is a battler. Logue is a battler. Corr and McDonald nearly cooked. Daniel is poor. FOS wasn’t picked at #2 to play half back.

Your build has produced quality mids, quality flankers, quality forwards … and no quality defenders other than Comben, and even he’s not yet a really high class defenders.

7-years into the build and you should have 4 x bonafide high quality defenders aged 22-27yo. You’ve got 1.

If Goater, Whitlock, Dawson and friends develop quickly and turn into quality then it may be ok. It’s a big if though.

The Roos defence over the last 6-years has been 17th, 18th, 18th, 17th, 18th, 17th. So whoever has been there hasn’t been defending well.

Couple of points

1: Dawson is no good. Still has time as he’s only 20, and he’s had the size, but ill be surprised if he makes it

2: Whitlock is being played forward. Kicked 5 in the two match sims but is still a ways off it physically

3: we also drafted thredgold, but he’s out for the year. Not that is really matters as he wouldn’t be playing this year

4: Trembath has played back but seems to be settling into a forward ruck spot

5: north have been trying hard to pinch butts (hehe) from the crows

6: im not yet ready to write off Logue and pink and want to see how they go playing on a man and not guarding space

 

[Makeshift Park]

Which defenders are confirmed to be quality on North’s list 7-years into the build?

I’m not talking about ‘promising’ or ‘coming back from injury’ or ‘just needs a chance ‘ ….

I see names like Goater (12 games in 4 years). Dawson (6 games in 2 years). Whitlock (2 games). Hardeman (22). Pink is a battler. Logue is a battler. Corr and McDonald nearly cooked. Daniel is poor. FOS wasn’t picked at #2 to play half back.

Your build has produced quality mids, quality flankers, quality forwards … and no quality defenders other than Comben, and even he’s not yet a really high class defenders.

7-years into the build and you should have 4 x bonafide high quality defenders aged 22-27yo. You’ve got 1.

If Goater, Whitlock, Dawson and friends develop quickly and turn into quality then it may be ok. It’s a big if though.

The Roos defence over the last 6-years has been 17th, 18th, 18th, 17th, 18th, 17th. So whoever has been there hasn’t been defending well.

Hardeman is a confirmed quality defender, and tho you can quibble about where he may end up ultimately, the fact is FOS is a confirmed quality defender.

And McKercher is an excellent half back linebreaker.

Comben has an elite intercept mark.

There's your four confirmed quality defenders.

Yes the backline has lacked organisation, its often looked like less the sum of its parts, and we haven't found our version of Sam Taylor, Tom Stewart or Harris Andrews to be the general.

But its got more good pieces accumulated than outside consensus often suggests.

 

[ReturningHawk]

Just let us know which one of these is your actual opinion, then you could perhaps apologise for wasting everyone’s time.

I wouldn't take Vlastuin over Hardeman either. Outrageous overrating of some, complete underrating of others.

Vlastuin was a ok player 5 years ago, now!? Not so much.

Vlastuin is an excellent footballer, I liked him a lot. He's no KB or Dusty but he's a damn fine footballer. Certainly better than Hardeman (at this stage).

 

[Chip Scab1]

Just let us know which one of these is your actual opinion, then you could perhaps apologise for wasting everyone’s time.

Both statements.

I am led to believe the discussion was about who you'd take today, umm the 32 year premiership player or the 2nd year North player - I couldn't believe people were wasting the bandwidth either.

I honestly thought it was who you'd take which (believe it or not) isn't a matter of who's better, it's a matter of what position your club is in. Ours it at the very start of whatever we become, Richmond (and Vlastuin) are at the very beginning after a great run lbh.

 

[ShereKhan]

lol we're comparing North and Richmond. We don't need to be close to these teams prior to 2027/2028.

We still have time to develop and improve.

All we have to worry about is Goater, George, Wardlaw, Comben, Dawson, Whitlock, Goad etc getting through the year unscathed and keep improving. In Goater and George's case, they need to get out there so we can finally stop playing our imported salary cap thieves.

Team 15 hasn't got as good a defence as Teams 1-5, call CNN. JFC. I'm sure that sounded like a "gotcha" when you came up with it, but no, no, no.

Which defenders are confirmed to be quality on North’s list 7-years into the build?

I’m not talking about ‘promising’ or ‘coming back from injury’ or ‘just needs a chance ‘ ….

I see names like Goater (12 games in 4 years). Dawson (6 games in 2 years). Whitlock (2 games). Hardeman (22). Pink is a battler. Logue is a battler. Corr and McDonald nearly cooked. Daniel is poor. FOS wasn’t picked at #2 to play half back.

Your build has produced quality mids, quality flankers, quality forwards … and no quality defenders other than Comben, and even he’s not yet a really high class defenders.

7-years into the build and you should have 4 x bonafide high quality defenders aged 22-27yo. You’ve got 1.

7-years into a build, Richmond for example had Rance, Grimes, Vlastuin, Houli, Astbury, Broad … then Short, Baker and Balta came through to play in flags.

If Goater, Whitlock, Dawson and friends develop quickly and turn into quality then it may be ok. It’s a big if though.

Who would Richmond take?

Nick Vlastuin and Riley Hardeman AFL Stats Comparison

Nick Vlastuin and Riley Hardeman AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

The 32 year old or the 19 year old? Absurd question and even more absurd response. Yeah for their next game, Vlastuin, sure, but who would you take indicated they'll be around for the next 10-15 years. I'm taking the WA junior skipper over your boy for 2026 and beyond, it's hardly a huge call.

Enjoy twice as many clangers and only 50% more possessions... we can't afford any more clangers. We're chock full.

I'd have him over Daniel, and I'd have him on McDonald clearly... but for where we are and where Vlastuin is, no chance I'd swap him for Riley.

Get it?

It’s such a silly discussion. Based in that I’d take Cumming over Dangerfield, Grlj over Zorko and Faull over Jezza.

 

[ShereKhan]

Hardeman is a confirmed quality defender, and tho you can quibble about where he may end up ultimately, the fact is FOS is a confirmed quality defender.

And McKercher is an excellent half back linebreaker.

Comben has an elite intercept mark.

There's your four confirmed quality defenders.

Yes the backline has lacked organisation, its often looked like less the sum of its parts, and we haven't found our version of Sam Taylor, Tom Stewart or Harris Andrews to be the general.

But its got more good pieces accumulated than outside consensus often suggests.

FOS and Hardeman have played 20 odd games each, so really early to be declaring both as quality defenders. Also, Hardeman is 184cm whilst FOS and McKercher are 182cm.

So you’re sort of proving my point in relation to defensive quality, with Comben the only confirmed quality defender over 184cm tall.

IMO that’s a concern if Dawson is not much chop, Goater can’t get fit and Whitlock is earmarked as a forward.

 

[Chip Scab1]

Which defenders are confirmed to be quality on North’s list 7-years into the build?

I’m not talking about ‘promising’ or ‘coming back from injury’ or ‘just needs a chance ‘ ….

I see names like Goater (12 games in 4 years). Dawson (6 games in 2 years). Whitlock (2 games). Hardeman (22). Pink is a battler. Logue is a battler. Corr and McDonald nearly cooked. Daniel is poor. FOS wasn’t picked at #2 to play half back.

Your build has produced quality mids, quality flankers, quality forwards … and no quality defenders other than Comben, and even he’s not yet a really high class defenders.

7-years into the build and you should have 4 x bonafide high quality defenders aged 22-27yo. You’ve got 1.

7-years into a build, Richmond for example had Rance, Grimes, Vlastuin, Houli, Astbury, Broad … then Short, Baker and Balta came through to play in flags.

If Goater, Whitlock, Dawson and friends develop quickly and turn into quality then it may be ok. It’s a big if though.

It’s such a silly discussion. Based in that I’d take Cumming over Dangerfield, Grlj over Zorko and Faull over Jezza.

Well Archer would be, but he's an ACL victim.

I agree with you, it's a shambles.

Comben, Archer, Hardeman are hopefully the locks.
Logue hopefully gets back to his Freo form.

Then I dunno.

There won't be much need if our Midfield continues to grow.
The defence will be there for aesthetic purposes only!

And to plan the pissups.

 

[Makeshift Park]

FOS and Hardeman have played 20 odd games each, so really early to be declaring both as quality defenders. Also, Hardeman is 184cm whilst FOS and McKercher are 182cm.

Cool analysis bro.

This year, the back-to-back reigning premiers will be playing Wilmot (183cm), Coleman (182cm), Zorko (175cm) and Fletcher (184cm) in their backline. Better scurry off to the Lions forum to express your metrical concerns so they don't miss such perspacity.

Maybe come back here after the preseason games to enlighten us with any defensive mistakes you notice FOS and Hardeman make. It'll be a very short list, I can assure you.

 

[Chip Scab1]

Cool analysis bro.

This year, the back-to-back reigning premiers will be playing Wilmot (183cm), Coleman (182cm), Zorko (175cm) and Fletcher (184cm) in their backline. Better scurry off to the Lions forum to express your metrical concerns so they don't miss such perspacity.

Maybe come back here after the preseason games to enlighten us with any defensive mistakes you notice FOS and Hardeman make. It'll be a very short list, I can assure you.

Go easy on Imi's Sister Sheree, she's a very good poster when not trying to analyse North. Very good.

I treat everything she says about us as trying to portray us in a bad light (I get it) - I did attack one of their favourite cubs. It was I.

Not Sheree's fault this one.

 

[ReturningHawk]

Both statements.

You’re standing by both statements? On one hand Vlastuin is an “ok footballer” who is “outrageously” overrated. Two posts and several wtf reactions later you add that he’s also an “excellent”, “damn fine” footballer.

I’m not bothered by your crappy opinion, or the fact that you backflipped when challenged. But don’t try to deny it.

 

[Tandy]

For some reason I just don’t rate Richmond. Their list just doesn’t seem promising at all. I think North will be the best of the 3 this year. With WCE jumping them in a few years.

 

[Tandy]

Hot take

 

[Grrr]

For some reason I just don’t rate Richmond. Their list just doesn’t seem promising at all. I think North will be the best of the 3 this year. With WCE jumping them in a few years.

How do you rate promising when our list just in the last two years has drafted pick 1, 7, 7 ,8, 12, 14, 21, 23 and 28.

Surely Campbell is rated, Gibcus (9) speculative due to injury not talent, full preseason. McAuliffe but for injury. A few others that are impressive that you would not know about, but that's a lot of early draft picks that most clubs would take years to collect.

 

[Chip Scab1]

You’re standing by both statements? On one hand Vlastuin is an “ok footballer” who is “outrageously” overrated. Two posts and several wtf reactions later you add that he’s also an “excellent”, “damn fine” footballer.

I’m not bothered by your crappy opinion, or the fact that you backflipped when challenged. But don’t try to deny it.

If that's how it came across I stand by it. I'm not back tracking from my original statement which erroneously assumed it was a debate about their future prospects, one being ancient and one being young. Sure, happy to walk it back ONLY because it's about 2026 not both of their future prospects, of which Old Mate Tiger really only has 1-2 years at most, at a higher standard of what Hardeman brings NOW. The overarching issue was a lack of respect for a young state Captain's leadership qualities, which I didn't agree with - so I went "two-footed" and I stand by that response, even though it was possibly uncalled for.

Reasoning... Caleb "claiming 12" receives all the soft stats in our ramshackle defence, once that expands to Hardeman - we'll see an uptick in his possessions. Now I don't expect you to know this, however it would be nice if it were taken into consideration.

As I have repeatedly said, yes you'd take Old Mate over McDonald and Daniel as they are shit, but Hardeman (for where we're at) it's a no. I couldn't have been clearer.

...Enjoy your wonderful dead-cat bounce, one of the best I've seen. It's marvellous that the AFL world are saying Hawks rebuilt in breakneck speed, I don't, it's more a top up and blowing of your load on B+ Free Agents (on big money) to remain in the mix, but not to really threaten.

 

[Pomsta]

Which defenders are confirmed to be quality on North’s list 7-years into the build?

I’m not talking about ‘promising’ or ‘coming back from injury’ or ‘just needs a chance ‘ ….

I see names like Goater (12 games in 4 years). Dawson (6 games in 2 years). Whitlock (2 games). Hardeman (22). Pink is a battler. Logue is a battler. Corr and McDonald nearly cooked. Daniel is poor. FOS wasn’t picked at #2 to play half back.

Your build has produced quality mids, quality flankers, quality forwards … and no quality defenders other than Comben, and even he’s not yet a really high class defenders.

7-years into the build and you should have 4 x bonafide high quality defenders aged 22-27yo. You’ve got 1.

7-years into a build, Richmond for example had Rance, Grimes, Vlastuin, Houli, Astbury, Broad … then Short, Baker and Balta came through to play in flags.

If Goater, Whitlock, Dawson and friends develop quickly and turn into quality then it may be ok. It’s a big if though.

It’s such a silly discussion. Based in that I’d take Cumming over Dangerfield, Grlj over Zorko and Faull over Jezza.

Honestly, right now I would take the Richmond kids. For once I can actually agree with Chip Scabs rationale. Getting the older players now increases our floor but doesn't raise the ceiling enough to make it worthwhile long term.

 

[ShereKhan]

Cool analysis bro.

This year, the back-to-back reigning premiers will be playing Wilmot (183cm), Coleman (182cm), Zorko (175cm) and Fletcher (184cm) in their backline. Better scurry off to the Lions forum to express your metrical concerns so they don't miss such perspacity.

Maybe come back here after the preseason games to enlighten us with any defensive mistakes you notice FOS and Hardeman make. It'll be a very short list, I can assure you.

Andrews : 200cm
Payne: 196cm
Gardiner: 192cm
Lester: 190cm
Doedee: 190cm

3-4 of those play every week.

Your issue isn’t small/medium defenders. Never said it was.

 

[emuboy]

Most definitely, I would rate the Tigers as the most promising of the Bottom 4 teams for 2025 and the one with the brightest future. I can't see Richmond making the finals or even getting close in 2026, but I would be equally surprised if they slipped back to last this year.

Essendon looked about the worst I have seen them in the way they finished off 2025 and seem to have little hope for a bright future, either short or long term. The West Coast Eagles I think will improve this year (although they could hardly get much worse on their 1-win, last placed finish in 2025) but I think they have a few hard years of rebuilding ahead of them. North Melbourne did win more matches in 2025 than in previous years, but I am not convinced that this side will ever come together and be a world-beating team that some fans seem to believe it will. I think the 2025 Kangaroos were a 'false dawn' team at best and will slide back to battling it out with the Eagles and Bombers for the 2026 wooden spoon and then face more rebuilding in coming seasons.

 

[ShereKhan]

For some reason I just don’t rate Richmond. Their list just doesn’t seem promising at all. I think North will be the best of the 3 this year. With WCE jumping them in a few years.

Music to our ears Tandy....pretty sure you didn't rate us in the lead-up to the QF of 2017 either ;-)

 

[Grrr]

Most definitely, I would rate the Tigers as the most promising of the Bottom 4 teams for 2025 and the one with the brightest future. I can't see Richmond making the finals or even getting close in 2026, but I would be equally surprised if they slipped back to last this year.

Essendon looked about the worst I have seen them in the way they finished off 2025 and seem to have little hope for a bright future, either short or long term. The West Coast Eagles I think will improve this year (although they could hardly get much worse on their 1-win, last placed finish in 2025) but I think they have a few hard years of rebuilding ahead of them. North Melbourne did win more matches in 2025 than in previous years, but I am not convinced that this side will ever come together and be a world-beating team that some fans seem to believe it will. I think the 2025 Kangaroos were a 'false dawn' team at best and will slide back to battling it out with the Eagles and Bombers for the 2026 wooden spoon and then face more rebuilding in coming seasons.

Only thing holding North back is their backline. Mids and forwards are good. So if a few kids down back develop or get a break, one fly's from left field, or a senior tall improves a lot, hard to see them improving enough to push towards top 8.

But they ran good sides close last year and their mids and forwards will only get better because most are pretty young. Just need a proper tall back or two.

 

[THE_GUN]

North will improve in 2026 and im expecting them to get around 9/10 wins for the season depending on injuries as depth could be an issue and as Grrr mentioned are suspect in defence more than other area's.

Richmond most likely between 3-5 wins and anything more is a bonus and again injuries will be a major factor on how the season progresses but unlike the last 3 years the list appears healthy at this time of the season with only 5 players in rehab and only 2/3 looking like a delayed start Smillie round 6/7 Prestia 2/3 Clarke ACL last 5 games of the season possible

Eagles will most likely improve from their terrible 1 win season and should get to the same level as Richmond with 3/5 wins
But any injuries to their very very light midfield will see another stagnant year and treading water with little depth and not great leadership

 

[tiger_tough]

For some reason I just don’t rate Richmond. Their list just doesn’t seem promising at all. I think North will be the best of the 3 this year. With WCE jumping them in a few years.

I can think of a reason....

 

[garlic munchers]

Not sure how this thread got derailed into the Hough focus...... solid B grade player playing in a shite side.

How about we keep the WC focus on Shanahan, A Reid and CDT (this is a pretty exciting core group of young talls) plus Lindsay and Duursma.

Early signs are super positive with this group (hey, I know, I know its too early to go the monty on them), but they are giving zero cause for concern about where they were drafted and a couple are looking like steals.

Going to be a great thread to trash talk on in the wash up of the 2026 season.

 

[Mr Meow]

Music to our ears Tandy....pretty sure you didn't rate us in the lead-up to the QF of 2017 either ;-)

86% of your posts needing to reference 2017 (basically always in rebuild threads) is certainly something.

 

[THE_GUN]

86% of your posts needing to reference 2017 (basically always in rebuild threads) is certainly something.

We could talk about 2020

You know where Dusty decided just before half time that he would lead his team mates to another premiership and treated Dangerfield & His mates like amateurs and take the premiership cup out of their hands