Coach John Longmire - Part II

[caesar88]

Horse had zero record in those terms before he succeeded Roos.

Dew has gone to a pillaged team. It is just silly to point out his win loss record there as some sort of critique. Caesar criticised the notion of Lyon as director of footy. Still maintain he would be a great Director. Charlie Gardiner haS little to offer that I can see. Just another corporate Harley croney. Will not offer much to Horse.

It's also silly to point out though that Dew is somehow a better alternative to a coach that's made three grand finals. If anything, Dew is as culpable in your issues with the team as Horse is. They were partners in crime during the years when Horse experienced his most success, a period which seems to be dictating Horse's current coaching a little too much for my liking. I think it's very possible that Dew would come in and return to the formula and methodology of coaching that he saw first-hand work so well under Horse.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Agree. It's one thing to want change in the form of a different coach. That's passing judgements on a coach you know. It's an entirely different thing to then be wanting specific other coaches. That's passing judgements on a coach you don't know. One is an experienced opinion, the other is a speculative one.

True. I invited speculation so happy to engage or copying my Whack.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Dew strikes me as a clever bloke. If he does well this year he should be on the shortlist.

Completely out coached us last year when NN he had a dross weasel team.

Beyond Snarko, the only current senior coaches I'd look at are Hinkley and the Scott's. Not enthused by Amy of these.

 

[caesar88]

Dew strikes me as a clever bloke. If he does well this year he should be on the shortlist.

Completely out coached us last year when NN he had a dross weasel team.

Beyond Snarko, the only current senior coaches I'd look at are Hinkley and the Scott's. Not enthused by Amy of these.

I don't think Dew out-coached us, more like Horse just shot himself in the foot. Dew did what any other coach would have done on that day which was tell his troops to stick to their guns because the Swans are folding here fellas!

 

[Jewelsbon]

I don't think Dew out-coached us, more like Horse just shot himself in the foot. Dew did what any other coach would have done on that day which was tell his troops to stick to their guns because the Swans are folding here fellas!

Yep exactly, can't believe that anybody could have seen it any other way.

 

[Gun Island]

If you think our Head of Football will have no say in who our next coach is, then feel free to ignore everythi Andrew Ireland has ever said.

Your joking even trying to compare the 2 , Andrew has 5 Flags and many years of experience .


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[robbieando]

Your joking even trying to compare the 2 , Andrew has 5 Flags and many years of experience .


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Your the one comparing them. Just stating feel free to ignore what Andrew Ireland has said on the Head of Football position and its role within the club

 

[The King!]

I don't think Dew out-coached us, more like Horse just shot himself in the foot. Dew did what any other coach would have done on that day which was tell his troops to stick to their guns because the Swans are folding here fellas!

either way Horse messed up

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Horse had zero record in those terms before he succeeded Roos.

Dew has gone to a pillaged team. It is just silly to point out his win loss record there as some sort of critique. Caesar criticised the notion of Lyon as director of footy. Still maintain he would be a great Director. Charlie Gardiner haS little to offer that I can see. Just another corporate Harley croney. Will not offer much to Horse.

That was a transition move, we dont extend Longmire we are looking at a replacement a upgrade.

I think its all moot as i believe he will get a 3yr extension he is our best coach we have had by far (yes he has faults they all do)

 

[The Gong]

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/afl_coaches?status=A&type=&sort=p

 

[caesar88]

either way Horse messed up

Exactly, it was more about Horse's debacles than Dew's brilliance that day.

 

[caesar88]

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/afl_coaches?status=A&type=&sort=p

Looking at that list you really begin to appreciate what you have. You can go through it and realise, wow literally none of these guys seem any better than Horse. The exception obviously is Clarkson, but I don't even think he is the all-time great people make him out to be.

All I hope is that we have a coach who can capitalise on our list, whether that be Horse changing his mentality or a new coach entirely. IMO the list has been too meticulously crafted to this point and we have so much young talent that it would be unacceptable for us not to be contenders in a few years time at the very least. We have to be very careful about making our next move in the coaching department.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Looking at that list you really begin to appreciate what you have. You can go through it and realise, wow literally none of these guys seem any better than Horse. The exception obviously is Clarkson, but I don't even think he is the all-time great people make him out to be.

All I hope is that we have a coach who can capitalise on our list, whether that be Horse changing his mentality or a new coach entirely. IMO the list has been too meticulously crafted to this point and we have so much young talent that it would be unacceptable for us not to be contenders in a few years time at the very least. We have to be very careful about making our next move in the coaching department.

Thats what im trying to say! its madness to just turf him to get someone who is untried i wouldnt mind someone like Ratten tho or someone that has been in Hawthorn system its where all the flags are coming from!

 

[Gun Island]

Thats what im trying to say! its madness to just turf him to get someone who is untried i wouldnt mind someone like Ratten tho or someone that has been in Hawthorn system its where all the flags are coming from!

Brett Ratten is fantastic, well liked by all players and was treated like s**t at Carlton.


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[caesar88]

Thats what im trying to say! its madness to just turf him to get someone who is untried i wouldnt mind someone like Ratten tho or someone that has been in Hawthorn system its where all the flags are coming from!

I don't think it's got anything to do with the Hawthorn system. Hardwick had a lousy record for years before Richmond finally became good. Adam Simpson has a very talented West Coast team that would do well under most coaches. And Beveridge only won his flag via the VFL.

I think Clarkson is over-rated personally, but one thing he's undeniably good at is playing to the strengths of his players. He saw that the list at his disposal was better suited to a simple, direct, old-fashioned style (relying less on contested footy and more on fundamental skills) and whaddyaknow, while everyone else was so focused on defensive footy and contested dominance which was all the rage between 2013-2015, the Hawks won three flags in that time. I think we should stop worrying about what the other teams in the competition are doing and just focus on how we can get the best out of our players.

 

[Kirkswan]

Horse had zero record in those terms before he succeeded Roos.

Dew has gone to a pillaged team. It is just silly to point out his win loss record there as some sort of critique. Caesar criticised the notion of Lyon as director of footy. Still maintain he would be a great Director. Charlie Gardiner haS little to offer that I can see. Just another corporate Harley croney. Will not offer much to Horse.

Yes, and that's absolutely true, except somehow they managed to keep Horse and develop him to be head coach, and they let Dew go. Bit like Stewie Maxfield. I've seen talk that he would come back and be head coach, but I just can't see it happening. he was an assistant, but didn't continue, so I reckon he's done.

 

[RobbieK]

Charlie Gardiner haS little to offer that I can see. Just another corporate Harley croney. Will not offer much to Horse.

You are pulling this opinion out of your arse.

 

[Tedeski]

You are pulling this opinion out of your arse.

People who aren't prepared to give people a chance also tend to quit too easily IMO.

 

[Gun Island]

You are pulling this opinion out of your arse.

A bit harsh that reply, how do you know or anyone else at this stage.


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[RobbieK]

A bit harsh that reply, how do you know or anyone else at this stage.

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Bloodied52 said that our new director of football is a useless crony and you think I am the one being harsh?

Let's hear what justifications he has for that opinion... but I'm feeling comfortable with my assessment of how he came to it.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Bloodied52 said that our new director of football is a useless crony and you think I am the one being harsh?

Let's hear what justifications he has for that opinion... but I'm feeling comfortable with my assessment of how he came to it.

Gardiner has been a full time, obviously bright lawyer. The extent of his management experience in this role is unclear. Feel free to correct me but he has no significant coaching, development or clubland management experience. Seems to me such experience would be essential to the role.

Beyond being a Harley mate I am mystified by what he has to offer the Footy Department. The role is a vital bridge between the CEO and the Board and a crucial source of support for and direction to the Coach

 

[RobbieK]

Gardiner has been a full time, obviously bright lawyer. The extent of his management experience in this role is unclear. Feel free to correct me but he has no significant coaching, development or clubland management experience. Seems to me such experience would be essential to the role.

Beyond being a Harley mate I am mystified by what he has to offer the Footy Department. The role is a vital bridge between the CEO and the Board and a crucial source of support for and direction to the Coach

No, he doesn't have coaching/development experience. He was an AFLPA representative, though, so has been involved in the football industry beyond simply being a player. Experience can certainly be important, but it isn't the only thing that is important. As you say, he has demonstrated himself to be an intelligent and capable lawyer, and that represents another set of valuable experiences that he brings to the job that someone who had only worked within football would not be able to bring. No doubt Harley knows him well and trusts him, that existing relationship could be beneficial rather than detrimental. We will see.

It might be a slightly out-of-the-box selection, but it is a leap to suggest it was a selection of someone who is incapable, ineffectual or merely a yes-man for Harley.

He was able to convince Andrew Ireland that he was the right person for the job. I think that alone is enough to warrant giving him the benefit of the doubt and to give him the opportunity to actually do something before writing him off like you have done. I'm not saying that he will necessarily be a success, I'm not saying that you may not be ultimately proven right. I am saying it is jumping the gun to have such an extremely negative view of him at this point.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Some fair points. I hope he is a success. I still would have preferred a more grizzled with experience person.

I suspect as Andrew I was on his way out the door that Harley's say would have been key.

 

[Kolah]

Looking at that list you really begin to appreciate what you have. You can go through it and realise, wow literally none of these guys seem any better than Horse. The exception obviously is Clarkson, but I don't even think he is the all-time great people make him out to be.

All I hope is that we have a coach who can capitalise on our list, whether that be Horse changing his mentality or a new coach entirely. IMO the list has been too meticulously crafted to this point and we have so much young talent that it would be unacceptable for us not to be contenders in a few years time at the very least. We have to be very careful about making our next move in the coaching department.

Amazing how a great list makes a coach look better and better. Take Bucks, for example. To be fair to Clarkson, it was more he built a list around a game plan than a game plan around a list. ‘If you can’t kick, you can’t play footy’ would have tested a few of ours over the years.

Anyway, the measure of a coach is not their raw win-loss record, it’s how much better the team performs compared with how they might have been expected to perform with the players available. Take a bow Paul Roos 2005-2006. Generally speaking, good luck with measuring a coach’s ‘value add’.

Anyway, where does the performance of the whole coaching panel fit into the picture?


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[Big Blood]

Ever so slightly off-topic: I watched replay of the 2005 EF the other night (spoiler: #2 was good!). No current Swans were playing (McVeigh wasn't out there), but we were amazingly well-represented on the Cats side: Playfair, Harley, Stevie J, Gardiner.

I expect the board had some say over Gardiner's appointment. After the coach and CEO it's the most important role in the club.

I don't know anything of Gardiner but our first draft and trade period under him was pretty good. Pulled off those smartarse lightning trades, got Blakey, Menzel for a song, a couple of smokies in Thurlow and Clarke as well as some promising kids. He may not have been responsible for all of these, but if any of it goes wrong he'll get the blame. So far so good.