Review Bad, Ugly, and Horrendous vs Hawks

[Truck25]

We would actually be better off kicking worm-burners into the F50 than those loopy sky balls.

It felt like u14's "lower your eyes!", even a kick to even numbers would be nice.

 

[Pea Nut]

My point is that more running power wouldn't have mattered because the willingness wasn't there and often isn't there against Hawthorn, so picking more leg speed would have made it worse yesterday. However, not picking Gibbs and Douglas, and picking Greenwood and CEY instead would have probably seen a better result. What we lacked was aggression and intent mainly.

I think we're agreeing and disagreeing at the same time. If we were to play those two and just get the ball moving forward from the contest any old how with pure chaos, then I would agree. Either way the game plan we used and stuck with for far too long yesterday was a huge problem.

 

[SugarShane]

Good
I couldn't watch the game

Was it the same as every single Hawthorn game in living memory?

No. Hawthorn had a new guernsey.

 

[Rave Slave]

I thought for a team with the talent level we all seem to believe we have, it was downright embarrassing.

See this is an important point. A super important one in fact:

The supporters of this football club massively overrate the talent within its four walls.

I’ve been guilty of it too but I’ve become much more aware of it in recent times.

Ask any run of the mill crows fan who our elite talent is and you get this response:

-Sloane
-Walker
-Crouch
-Crouch
-Smith
-Betts
-Laird
-Jacobs
-Gibbs
-Talia

With elite young talent in:

-Milera
-Doedee
-Greenwood

How about we analyse this is more detail?

Sloane: Heart and soul of this club. Elite workrate and toughness. Best player at this club by a mile. Not a flashy game breaker but absolutely an elite AFL footballer.

Walker: One way forward that has the turning circle of the titanic, has lost his field vision and elite decision making due to a history of injury and is now a liability. I love this man as both a footballer and leader at his peak but right now he shouldn’t even be in the team. Wouldn’t be the best key forward at any of the contenders around the competition.

B.Crouch - Has potential to be absolutely anything and could be the gamebreaker we are screaming out for - but you have to look at what’s on paper. His body is too fragile to assess properly but you cannot call his output elite purely on the fact he’s missed so much time. No good having the Michael Jordan of the AFL if he only plays 1 in every 4 games. Not elite - yet.

M.Crouch - Probably the harshest one to evaluate. Just about the most consistent footballer in the AFL but has as much hurt factor as being slapped with a feather. I love him and I think he’s super important to our club moving forward but he isn’t a damaging midfielder. Elite accumulator - yes, elite mid of the competition - no

Smith - absolute weapon of the backline with laser beam leg and fantastic vision. Had a habit of being shutdown when the heat went up a notch but was elite. Willing to give him the benefit that he can get there again but he’s not there right now. I’ll say ? with a possible yes.

Betts - The value this guy has brought to our football club is monumental. He’s a marketers dream, he’s an ambassador for the game and he should’ve played an enormous part in turning Charlie Cameron into the second coming. Instead we’ve lost Cameron, we start the process again with Stengle and Eddie is looking like a cooked duck. Has lost a yard of pace and agility but his decision making remains the same which means he knows what he needs to do, he just can’t do it as quickly as he used to and so he ***** it up. Even at his best he was a flashy ‘moments’ player that could be shut down by the right opponent. Was elite but isn’t now.

Laird - Shit game against the hawks and has limitations due to his size but is elite. Probably our second best player after Sloane.

Jacobs - Wouldn’t start ruck at just about any other club in the league. We’ve run him into the ground, through the plates and he’s spiralling down towards the magma. If it wasn’t for the fact he’s getting paid a bucket I’d say the bloke would retire himself - not AFL standard, let alone elite.

Gibbs - Brought in as the cherry on top but has been required to step up as a leader in the absence of others. I’d say at his best he’s a very good mid but no longer elite because we got him a year too late (and still overpaid). Excellent player - not elite.

Talia: Gun backman, limited in his offensive capabilities but I’m willing to overlook that based on the fact he completely shuts down a gun week in week out. Elite stopper.

So out of the 10 most common names thrown up by General Crows fans whenever the question comes up on who are your ‘guns’ I’d say the actual reality is:

Elite:
Sloane
Laird
Talia (with limited hurt factor)

Very good:
Mrouch

?:
Brouch
Smith

Decent but starting to slide:
Gibbs

Cooked:
Betts

Thoroughly roasted and not AFL standard:
Walker
Jacobs

It’s worse when you look at those young players listed:

Milera: Could be a gun but the time is now. Needs to stamp himself on games more.

Doedee: Absolutely an elite talent. ACL’s suck.

Greenwood: Not actually ‘young’ per se and while he brings something unique to our club, he’s not elite. Love him but he’s not there.
Not only this but based on age profile and the game he plays, Sloane is going to slow up sooner rather than later.

Many of our fans think we’re still in the midst of a premiership window but truth of the matter is we’re probably one year behind starting a full blown rebuild.

Our guns (excluding Laird) are either in the wrong age profile completely or they’re carrying significant question marks as to whether they’ll ever be what they potentially could.

In this era of ridiculously fast AFL football, we simply cannot afford to be that conservative club anymore. One year can be the difference between top 4 and bottom 4 with how even the middle teams are in this league and if my suspicions are correct, we are about to be exposed this season to the fact we’re no longer a contender due to the fact that we can’t keep up speed wise with some of the younger lists about to launch into their own premiership windows.

It’s time to get real as a fanbase - we need to take the clubs **** out of our mouth and stop buying into the one town media hype.

The window is shut.

 

[WetCrow1991]

I think we're agreeing and disagreeing at the same time. If we were to play those two and just get the ball moving forward from the contest any old how with pure chaos, then I would agree. Either way the game plan we used and stuck with for far too long yesterday was a huge problem.

Oh for sure. We still would have lost due to our poor kicking and the Hawks clogging our forward line + our forwards not contesting, but I think it might have been a bit closer.

Yeah I don't know why we didn't try anything different with our forward set up, get us to cluster up closer to the 50, have the one forward in the goal square and then kick over the cluster and have the players run onto it/spread to cover the Hawks rebound. Trying to hit up players in space was not working at all.

And the short kicks, dear god the short kicks. Talk about playing right into Hawthorns hands.

 

[SugarShane]

Ben Hart on ABC radio this morning “you’ve lost 9 of the last 10 against Hawthorn what will you change to win this week?” ....... “I wasn’t there for 8 of them” what a shitty response

Was it like in Joe Dirt when they ask him why he hasn't just cut his wig into a different hairstyle and he'd never even thought of it?

Were we even aware that they beat us in the exact same way every single time? Surely if we were he'd have come up with a better response like that we had reviewed those games?

 

[Iron]

I was at the game.

There was not ONE SINGLE PASSAGE OF PLAY that looked good.

That looked on purpose.

Not a single one.

I've missed a few posts, but that isn't true! We had that little 5 minute patch about 10 minutes to go in the game.

The only time in the game we played well and hit a few targets. Coincided with the dopey lightning bolt sign.

It's extremely worrying as it looks like our coaches told them... forget the tempo and structure and GO. So why did we leave it until then? And why is the shit structure and tempo the plan A??

 

[MRB37]

We should also tell the rest of the team to stop putting it on his head against tall defenders with no KPF in the area forcing him to make the contest.

We put 'em on Murphy's head a couple of times too.

 

[Redleg Crow]

I get people are peeved at walker and Jenkins. Jenkins had one of the stinkiest games of his career which is saying something.

But when you have Atkins, Mackay and Laird continually putting it at your feet, over your head or straight to your opponent, there’s not a lot a big forward can do.

Walker was getting pushed around by Sicily. He had no physical presence at all

 

[CrowinNT]

Centre square mid and really had some impact

The sting was out of game but still , thought it looked promising just wish we tried it to start the second half

Where is Malcolm blight when you need him

It’s worth a go to rotate Smith & Gibbs
Didn’t Gibbs mention he had been spending time in defence during the pre season ?

 

[StonesThrow]

Love how a loss brings out the most rational supporters

 

[Jeffcrowe]

It’s worth a go to rotate Smith & Gibbs
Didn’t Gibbs mention he had been spending time in defence during the pre season ?

He played there all last quarter when he couldn’t get a kick in mid after quarter time

He’s close to getting dropped IMO

 

[1990crow]

I think we're agreeing and disagreeing at the same time. If we were to play those two and just get the ball moving forward from the contest any old how with pure chaos, then I would agree. Either way the game plan we used and stuck with for far too long yesterday was a huge problem.

Good analysis by these two posters. I’m starting to think maybe we need to put Gibbs at half forward.

Out: Mackay, Douglas, Doedee, Knight, Murphy
In: Seedsman, Galluci, Greenwood, Hartigan, CEY

Kelly Talia Keath
Laird Hartigan Smith
Sloane M.Crouch Seedsman
Jacobs B.Crouch CEY
Lynch Walker Gibbs
Betts Jenkins Galluci
Milera Atkins Greenwood Jones

 

[Jeffcrowe]

The disaster of yesterday is Doedee

Most other teams fancied this year have
lost but it’s losing Doedee that will endure

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

If we want to keep him in, which it appears we do, then we actually have to find a role that suits him. He's not a forward, he's not a defender and he isn't an inside mid..... gotta be on a wing.

Knight played most of yesterday's game as a wingman with Atkins & Mackay. Only went forward late in the game.

 

[Rave Slave]

Wasn't it about why we wouldnt rest Thommo?

The scary thing is I’m fairly certain there were two examples.

One referring to an injured Danger and one referring to Thompson not playing.

Fairly certain both were across different coaching regimes too so it’s nice to see we are consistent.

 

[Iron]

I've defended Tex to the hilt. I love him. But he was as fresh as a daisy today, after his biggest preseason in years, and he looked no different to last year. It was a statement game today for Walker, Betts and Sauce and all 3 looked like they could be a week away from retirement. They still have more to give, and it's only Round 1, but it's becoming hard to watch them.

I love Tex the person but I'm falling out of love with Tex the player. Opposition fans dont see how much he has driven the culture of the club so they find it easy to hang shit on him and I get fired up, but I can't really defend his performances anymore.

Devastated that he probably won't be the one to lift the trophy for this great club. I think he deserves it, but 2017 was his chance.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I don’t think you can just flick the switch, it’s got to be in your DNA. If you go through a preseason without training with that mongrel then you play without it. It’s also part of your gameplan to play that way and that’s what the preseason is for, to develop your game plan.

Players also very rarely get injured due to being tackled so that shouldn’t be a concern.

The thing is we have more capable tacklers on our list than ever before especially when Greenwood is back and Mchenry starts playing

It’s all mindset

 

[Slippery Pete]

See this is an important point. A super important one in fact:

The supporters of this football club massively overrate the talent within its four walls.

I’ve been guilty of it too but I’ve become much more aware of it in recent times.

Ask any run of the mill crows fan who our elite talent is and you get this response:

-Sloane
-Walker
-Crouch
-Crouch
-Smith
-Betts
-Laird
-Jacobs
-Gibbs
-Talia

With elite young talent in:

-Milera
-Doedee
-Greenwood

How about we analyse this is more detail?

Sloane: Heart and soul of this club. Elite workrate and toughness. Best player at this club by a mile. Not a flashy game breaker but absolutely an elite AFL footballer.

Walker: One way forward that has the turning circle of the titanic, has lost his field vision and elite decision making due to a history of injury and is now a liability. I love this man as both a footballer and leader at his peak but right now he shouldn’t even be in the team. Wouldn’t be the best key forward at any of the contenders around the competition.

B.Crouch - Has potential to be absolutely anything and could be the gamebreaker we are screaming out for - but you have to look at what’s on paper. His body is too fragile to assess properly but you cannot call his output elite purely on the fact he’s missed so much time. No good having the Michael Jordan of the AFL if he only plays 1 in every 4 games. Not elite - yet.

M.Crouch - Probably the harshest one to evaluate. Just about the most consistent footballer in the AFL but has as much hurt factor as being slapped with a feather. I love him and I think he’s super important to our club moving forward but he isn’t a damaging midfielder. Elite accumulator - yes, elite mid of the competition - no

Smith - absolute weapon of the backline with laser beam leg and fantastic vision. Had a habit of being shutdown when the heat went up a notch but was elite. Willing to give him the benefit that he can get there again but he’s not there right now. I’ll say ? with a possible yes.

Betts - The value this guy has brought to our football club is monumental. He’s a marketers dream, he’s an ambassador for the game and he should’ve played an enormous part in turning Charlie Cameron into the second coming. Instead we’ve lost Cameron, we start the process again with Stengle and Eddie is looking like a cooked duck. Has lost a yard of pace and agility but his decision making remains the same which means he knows what he needs to do, he just can’t do it as quickly as he used to and so he ***** it up. Even at his best he was a flashy ‘moments’ player that could be shut down by the right opponent. Was elite but isn’t now.

Laird - Shit game against the hawks and has limitations due to his size but is elite. Probably our second best player after Sloane.

Jacobs - Wouldn’t start ruck at just about any other club in the league. We’ve run him into the ground, through the plates and he’s spiralling down towards the magma. If it wasn’t for the fact he’s getting paid a bucket I’d say the bloke would retire himself - not AFL standard, let alone elite.

Gibbs - Brought in as the cherry on top but has been required to step up as a leader in the absence of others. I’d say at his best he’s a very good mid but no longer elite because we got him a year too late (and still overpaid). Excellent player - not elite.

Talia: Gun backman, limited in his offensive capabilities but I’m willing to overlook that based on the fact he completely shuts down a gun week in week out. Elite stopper.

So out of the 10 most common names thrown up by General Crows fans whenever the question comes up on who are your ‘guns’ I’d say the actual reality is:

Elite:
Sloane
Laird
Talia (with limited hurt factor)

Very good:
Mrouch

?:
Brouch
Smith

Decent but starting to slide:
Gibbs

Cooked:
Betts

Thoroughly roasted and not AFL standard:
Walker
Jacobs

It’s worse when you look at those young players listed:

Milera: Could be a gun but the time is now. Needs to stamp himself on games more.

Doedee: Absolutely an elite talent. ACL’s suck.

Greenwood: Not actually ‘young’ per se and while he brings something unique to our club, he’s not elite. Love him but he’s not there.
Not only this but based on age profile and the game he plays, Sloane is going to slow up sooner rather than later.

Many of our fans think we’re still in the midst of a premiership window but truth of the matter is we’re probably one year behind starting a full blown rebuild.

Our guns (excluding Laird) are either in the wrong age profile completely or they’re carrying significant question marks as to whether they’ll ever be what they potentially could.

In this era of ridiculously fast AFL football, we simply cannot afford to be that conservative club anymore. One year can be the difference between top 4 and bottom 4 with how even the middle teams are in this league and if my suspicions are correct, we are about to be exposed this season to the fact we’re no longer a contender due to the fact that we can’t keep up speed wise with some of the younger lists about to launch into their own premiership windows.

It’s time to get real as a fanbase - we need to take the clubs **** out of our mouth and stop buying into the one town media hype.

The window is shut.

You should post more often.

Don’t agree with all of it but it’s a good breakdown, food for thought.

 

[arrowman]

We put 'em on Murphy's head a couple of times too.

Agree. The number of times we picked out a small as the marking target was infuriating.

I don't know whether that was poor choice by the kicker, or poor positioning by the talls, but I think it was more the latter.

If you're not getting clean entries because pressure, then (a) the forwards have to move more / work harder, and (b) at least put it deeper and try to create some chaos.

Hawks got a lot of intercepts because of poor kicking, but at the same time our forwards were misjudging the flight and left watching instead of moving to the contest.

For all the crap that was being dished up further up the field, if we hadn't failed so badly at F50 entries we still could have won.

 

[Slippery Pete]

I love Tex the person but I'm falling out of love with Tex the player. Opposition fans dont see how much he has driven the culture of the club so they find it easy to hang shit on him and I get fired up, but I can't really defend his performances anymore.

Devastated that he probably won't be the one to lift the trophy for this great club. I think he deserves it, but 2017 was his chance.

Walker and Jenkins are actually very similar as forwards. Their strengths and weaknesses are the same. There has been a number of games in the last 18 months where they both become liabilities because the same sort of tactics quell both of their influences.

In other words, if you come with a plan to beat Jenkins, you beat Walker too.

McGovern was the fly in the ointment for opposition defences.

Can somebody name me anyone on our list who can take a contested mark inside 50?

 

[pjcrows]

Walker and Jenkins are actually very similar as forwards. Their strengths and weaknesses are the same. There has been a number of games in the last 18 months where they both become liabilities because the same sort of tactics quell both of their influences.

In other words, if you come with a plan to beat Jenkins, you beat Walker too.

McGovern was the foil.

Can somebody name me anyone on our list who can take a contested mark inside 50?

There isn't one.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Nothing has changed.

We make dumb decisions off the field and that leads to dumb decisions on the field.

We do. Not. Learn.

I think the media reports made us drink our own bathwater.

Still we handball to flat footed team-mates or team-mates that should not have the ball handballed to them because they are in a worse position than the numbskull doing the handballing.

Walker...not a captains arseh*le and should have been dropped from the role ala Boak.

 

[Elite Crow]

The thing is we have more capable tacklers on our list than ever before especially when Greenwood is back and Mchenry starts playing

It’s all mindset

But do we train them that way?

And our mindset did suck but is that mindset ingrained with the way we are taught to play?

 

[feenix67]

Forget the fact he was by no means our worse player .....but using that decision as a reason for the loss, shows the shallowness of your ability to analyze a football match

This is just analysis from the bottom of a beer glass

This post highlights your inability to read a post.

Pray tell, what did DMac bring to the table? What impact did he have on the game? What did he do that, say, a hungry Ned McHenry or an underdone Greenwood or Gallucci wouldn't have done?

It's our selectors obsession with selecting certain players, who bring the same shit week in week out, that was being highlighted by Scorpus . Until that changes, we'll look like millionaires in open, free flowing games and hacks in real, pressured games of footy.