Coach John Longmire - Part II

[RUNVS]

So he has only been successful because of a whiz bang list?

In spite of his poor coaching the whiz bang list managed to win all those games?

How many games did Buddy win off his own boot?

Also a good list can mask a poor coach. Longmire is one of the few coaches in the AFL who was given a very good team straight off the bat. Few coaches get that chance as most new coaches get a really poor club down the bottom of the ladder.

The 2012 team was still basically Paul Roos' team with Paul Roos game plan that was very very lightly modified by Longmire. He has shown no ability to come up with his own game plan, he just keeps trying to play a variation of the game plan Roos left him with back in 2010/2011.

 

[Number37]

How many games did Buddy win off his own boot?

Also a good list can mask a poor coach. Longmire is one of the few coaches in the AFL who was given a very good team straight off the bat. Few coaches get that chance as most new coaches get a really poor club down the bottom of the ladder.

The 2012 team was still basically Paul Roos' team with Paul Roos game plan that was very very lightly modified by Longmire. He has shown no ability to come up with his own game plan, he just keeps trying to play a variation of the game plan Roos left him with back in 2010/2011.

That is bizarre.
You're unhappy Horse won a flag with Roosy's game plan?
Would you have been more satisfied if Horse won the flag with his own game plan?

 

[RUNVS]

That is bizarre.
You're unhappy Horse won a flag with Roosy's game plan?
Would you have been more satisfied if Horse won the flag with his own game plan?

I am fine with him using Roos gameplan for 2012 as it worked then. My point is that he hasn't evolved much since then. He is still using Roos game plan and has not shown an ability to develop a game plan of his own, instead using the game plan he was given.

 

[TheMase]

How many games did Buddy win off his own boot?

Also a good list can mask a poor coach. Longmire is one of the few coaches in the AFL who was given a very good team straight off the bat. Few coaches get that chance as most new coaches get a really poor club down the bottom of the ladder.

The 2012 team was still basically Paul Roos' team with Paul Roos game plan that was very very lightly modified by Longmire. He has shown no ability to come up with his own game plan, he just keeps trying to play a variation of the game plan Roos left him with back in 2010/2011.

Er, wasn’t Horse credited with using the “slingshot” in 2012? That was not a Roos gameplan.....

Then getting to the grand final in 2014, was that Roos too? Many different personnel at this point.

Then again in 2016, where luck and other circumstances on the day was more substantial than being outcoached... again very few players left that played under Roos.

You know you’re able to put forward the idea of him/his game style not evolving, without discrediting his entire record.....?

 

[RUNVS]

Er, wasn’t Horse credited with using the “slingshot” in 2012? That was not a Roos gameplan.....

I am not sure Longmire came up with it. I mean Roos had been doing that with Jetta pretty soon after getting him, though it did start to click under Longmire as Jetta physically matured.

My question is though, what changes has Longmire made to the game plan in the last few years? I mean Clarkson has changed his gameplan around 4 times in the last 3 years to suit his changing list, but I don't think Longmire has changed things once.

 

[TheMase]

I am not sure Longmire came up with it. I mean Roos had been doing that with Jetta pretty soon after getting him, though it did start to click under Longmire as Jetta physically matured.

My question is though, what changes has Longmire made to the game plan in the last few years? I mean Clarkson has changed his gameplan around 4 times in the last 3 years to suit his changing list, but I don't think Longmire has changed things once.

What’s changes has Clarkson made? Hasn’t worked particularly well for him? Has he won any finals at all during that time / those changes? I am not sure he has...? Does he get a pass for an evolving list?

 

[bedford]

What’s changes has Clarkson made? Hasn’t worked particularly well for him? Has he won any finals at all during that time / those changes? I am not sure he has...? Does he get a pass for an evolving list?

Have a listen to Liam Shields on SEN , it's a good listen.

 

[TheMase]

Have a listen to Liam Shields on SEN , it's a good listen.

I am sure it is. However it is round one, so for now it offers no proof of anything.

If the Hawks miss the finals this year, would it be reconsidered as a failure?

 

[bedford]

I am sure it is. However it is round one, so for now it offers no proof of anything.

If the Hawks miss the finals this year, would it be reconsidered as a failure?

Not really , as most expect them and us to miss . Shields was good talking about the pre season. Horse will be at St Scum or Carlton next year.

 

[RUNVS]

Not really , as most expect them and us to miss . Shields was good talking about the pre season. Horse will be at St Scum or Carlton next year.

I don't have faith that the Swans management will do anything. I fully expect in a few months an announcement that Horse has re-signed until 2024 or something like that.

 

[Tedeski]

We're barking up the wrong tree with regards to blaming the coach for last night.
Here are some reasons why.
- Melican shoving his opponent out of te way half an hour before the ball arrived for a free kick.
- Reid missing from 20 m out in front.
- Reid dropping a mark.
- Dawson dropping 3 marks.
- Heeney deciding to take his second shot with the around corner kick for not even a behind.
- Hayward not working hard enough in the first 3 quarters.
- Jones kicking OOF & to opponents consistently.

After these events the blame goes to the coach.

 

[RUNVS]

We're barking up the wrong tree with regards to blaming the coach for last night.
Here are some reasons why.
- Melican shoving his opponent out of te way half an hour before the ball arrived for a free kick.
- Reid missing from 20 m out in front.
- Reid dropping a mark.
- Dawson dropping 3 marks.
- Heeney deciding to take his second shot with the around corner kick for not even a behind.
- Hayward not working hard enough in the first 3 quarters.
- Jones kicking OOF & to opponents consistently.

After these events the blame goes to the coach.

So the fact we were at one stage down 22 in the inside 50's in the 3rd quarter is not a sign that something is seriously wrong in the midfield?

 

[bedford]

We're barking up the wrong tree with regards to blaming the coach for last night.
Here are some reasons why.
- Melican shoving his opponent out of te way half an hour before the ball arrived for a free kick.
- Reid missing from 20 m out in front.
- Reid dropping a mark.
- Dawson dropping 3 marks.
- Heeney deciding to take his second shot with the around corner kick for not even a behind.
- Hayward not working hard enough in the first 3 quarters.
- Jones kicking OOF & to opponents consistently.

After these events the blame goes to the coach.

The buck stops with him , no one else . Sorry Ted I got sucked in to this thread again.

 

[Punts]

Is the group playing for him?

The fundamentals not getting done in r1 is worrying.

Parker said post match that they new there were good at the scramble, why were we not hunting.

Sounds of to me

 

[Tedeski]

The buck stops with him , no one else . Sorry Ted I got sucked in to this thread again.

All good mate.
Any opinion is valued & we are allowed to disagree on certain things. I just think blaming the coach is a cop out when we can nearly win the game in a quarter of footy.
Players need to be held accountable. Same when we started 0 & 6 in 2017 only to drop 2 more for the rest of that season. That's a player thing.

 

[caesar88]

We really do need a massive rejuvination. I mean we have essentially played under the one regime for 16 years, first under Kim Jong Roos, and now under Kim Jong Longmire, with Kim Jong Longmire not really changing much that Kim Jong Roos already established.

This actually made me chuckle aloud in an airport, kudos Sir.

 

[mtooler]

Playing finals last year was just papering over the cracks.
Same as the year before.
Losing in 2016 was just papering over the other cracks.
Injuries in 2015 and 2013 papered over some cracks.
Getting belted in 2014 papered over some cracks.
Winning the flag in 2012 papered over the cracks that Horse is really a bad coach.

Horse has done a magnificent job of papering over the cracks over the last 10 years.

This is correct to some extent. I'm not far from wanting an onfield rebuild though, even if I'm stuck with Longmire. I'm concerned with JPK, lack of a dominant ruck, playing reg. I'd be ok if Rowbottom and McInerney come in make errors but get games into them, we seem too far off the pace this year. I'm ok if we dont play finals if we start to see a team take shape and we get a couple of top 10 draft picks in. Clearing Tippo and Hanners salaries was excellent for us.

I'm about as opposed to Longmire as someone could get, but he and the coaches nail our trades and draftees and with some spare salary cap space I'm hopeful we get one or two gun mids this offseason. Conigs and Kelly or one of them would help us alot and Longmire can build around them.

 

[caesar88]

If you think he is going to change his ways you are going to be disappointed

That’s how he coaches and he believes that can get us best results

He isn’t going to change so I don’t get why some think he will

IMO

Certainly looks that way Punts but i'm giving him 2019 as his last chance.

Not that I have anything to give, not like I have a say in the matter lol

 

[caesar88]

Er, wasn’t Horse credited with using the “slingshot” in 2012? That was not a Roos gameplan.....

Then getting to the grand final in 2014, was that Roos too? Many different personnel at this point.

Then again in 2016, where luck and other circumstances on the day was more substantial than being outcoached... again very few players left that played under Roos.

You know you’re able to put forward the idea of him/his game style not evolving, without discrediting his entire record.....?

I have done that and all I'm ever met with is a fact-check of his entire record. I believe the past and the present are two very different things. We can acknowledge and celebrate his past achievements without ignoring that he's given a pretty mediocre performance the last two seasons where we have been underwhelming. But worshipping his quality coaching with the 2012 team is not going to make him improve his coaching with this current team. So I think some are wrong to go back and discredit his past achievements, but I also think it's wrong to use those past achievements to justify his current actions.

 

[The King!]

So he has only been successful because of a whiz bang list?

In spite of his poor coaching the whiz bang list managed to win all those games?

records stuck

 

[The King!]

The only slight slither of hope I have is that Hardwick and Buckley both looked as stubborn as Longmire, but both of them were forced to change.

Neither had past success to fall back on

 

[Number37]

records stuck

It didn't take you long to find your voice again.
20 million post game posts all bagging Horse. Records stuck all right.

 

[scaryness]

Look at that attacking footy that Carlton have played for the 4 years under Clarkson protege Bolton.
Ratten is already a failed coach.

It is the first game of the season FFS.

Ratten was not a failed coach. He got sacked because Malthouse was the shiny new toy for the incompetent Carlton management.

 

[Number37]

Ratten was not a failed coach. He got sacked because Malthouse was the shiny new toy for the incompetent Carlton management.

How was he not a failed a coach?

 

[scaryness]

How was he not a failed a coach?

He took the perennial wooden spooners to the finals in only two seasons as coach. Made the semi finals, then missed the finals the next year when Mick was available and Carlton thought it was now or never.

10-12 was his worst season, which was his first full season. A 6 win improvement from Pagan's last year.

He wasnt a mastercoach but he was better than just being labeled a failed coach imo.

Less quantifiable is that he became the midfield coach at Hawthorn starting in the 2013 season. Speaks for itself.