Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[Vindicater]

Yep after looking at the round 1 teams I wouldn't have him at the bottom. But top 10 I'm not so sure

Gawn, Grundy, Nankervis, Lycett, Ryder, Jacobs, Goldstein, Martin all ahead of him. Then the like of McEvoy, Witts, Sinclair and Vardy would be a flip of the coin. Then young guys like English, Darcy and even Pierce could go past him. He was well beaten by Simpson. His lack of effort is an issue. He just doesn't look fit.

McEvoy is much better than Bellchambers.

 

[Snake Charmer]

McEvoy is much better than Bellchambers.

I agree. Vardy also

 

[citizen-erased]

Would Libba leave the Dogs? The interview with Bont after the win on Saturday was interesting. He was all praise for a guy who is dedicated to that club.

If we're looking for a mid to replace Myers, pickings will be slim.
To get the quality we need, we're gonna need to lose a top tier player. Only place we can afford that is defence.
Could we stomach losing someone like Hurley to get a top 10 inside beast to cure our ills?

Ruck-wise, i'd be looking at Archie Smith if he isn't Brisbane's starting ruck by years end.

 

[eth-dog]

McEvoy is much better than Bellchambers.

Delusional pearlers is thataway. McEvoy is a spud.

 

[eth-dog]

Yep after looking at the round 1 teams I wouldn't have him at the bottom. But top 10 I'm not so sure

Gawn, Grundy, Nankervis, Lycett, Ryder, Jacobs, Goldstein, Martin all ahead of him. Then the like of McEvoy, Witts, Sinclair and Vardy would be a flip of the coin. Then young guys like English, Darcy and even Pierce could go past him. He was well beaten by Simpson. His lack of effort is an issue. He just doesn't look fit.

He's better than all of the bolded. Or at least as good as Goldstein. McEvoy has to be the most overrated ruckman going around, the bloke is an absolute spud. Jacobs is as cooked as anyone and has been for 12 months. Let's not rewrite history based off a poor showing yesterday, he was realistically only behind Grundy, Gawn and Martin last year, around a similar level to Nankervis, Lycett and Witts.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Libba won't leave the dogs and if he was we wouldn't be at the top of his list.

At this point I'd rather be playing a pig like Craig Bird, Ben Howlett or Heath Hocking than Myers, taking the hit on whatever supposed advantage that his glorious bigger body provides and his kicking prowess for someone that wins the ball and runs hard.

 

[Kakkle]

Delusional pearlers is thataway. McEvoy is a spud.

Spud ruckman don't play the game he played on the weekend. He was very solid last year, and you could say that about his career at Hawthorn. Solid ruckman. A 'spud' ruckman is someone like Andrew Phillips.

 

[VelvetSledge]

Delusional pearlers is thataway. McEvoy is a spud.

Gonna firmly disagree with you here Eth.

McEvoy is a best 22 ruckman for the best performing side of the past 10 years. Has to be doing something right

 

[eth-dog]

Spud ruckman don't play the game he played on the weekend. He was very solid last year, and you could say that about his career at Hawthorn. Solid ruckman. A 'spud' ruckman is someone like Andrew Phillips.

He's overrated as hell. Jacobs hasn't been any good for 12 month.

Gonna firmly disagree with you here Eth.

McEvoy is a best 22 ruckman for the best performing side of the past 10 years. Has to be doing something right

He's not Jonathon Ceglar.

 

[Kakkle]

He's overrated as hell. Jacobs hasn't been any good for 12 month.

He's not Jonathon Ceglar.

He's much superior to Ceglar.

Calling him a "absolute spud" is a pearler in itself.

 

[VelvetSledge]

He's not Jonathon Ceglar.

Yeah, exactly lol

 

[TheGrizz]

He's overrated as hell. Jacobs hasn't been any good for 12 month.

He's not Jonathon Ceglar.

I think your love of T-Bell has clouded your judgement.

McEvoy has been one of the most consistent ruckman in the league for the last 6-7 years.
I think most people outside of Essendon (and even some such as myself within the essendon community) would take McEvoy over Bellchambers any day.

T-Bells good is very good, but he swings between very good and barely noticeable far too often. Give me McEvoys 20 B to B+ grade games a year anyday.

 

[F_therest]

100% agree. Tyson is a version of Myers that actually wins the ball.

Reckon looking in isolation Dodoro did a good job firstly convincing Stringer, Saad, Smith and Shiel to join Essendon, then secondly getting them for a decent price (although Shiel didn't come cheap).

But yeah, list management is about more than isolated trades and drafting...it's about the list as a whole.

From what i've gathered Essendon have been lacking inside mids for quite a while now, and the fact that it's still an issue in 2019 really does lay at Dodoro's feet. Even Shiel, while a big bodied mid, is more known for his burst away from a stoppage than his inside mid, contested possession ability.

Having reliable inside mids would make your outside mids and quick players so much more dangerous as well as those types of players rely on getting the handball receives.

Myers and Zaharakhis probably should have been moved on and maybe use any currency received from them to try to land a decent inside mid.
It can happen quickly too...Hawthorn got James Worpel at pick 45 in the 2017 draft and he starred for them against Adelaide...i hate how good they are at developing kids.

Doesn't help that Heppell and Zach Merrett are playing well below what they're capable of right now...having those 2 and Myers having little impact really screws your midfield as they are slow.

 

[F_therest]

Far from it. He's one of the top 10 in the league comfortably.

Not sure about that. Definitely an area Essendon could improve on. Some of the inside mid woes may actually be helped by getting a tough, physical ruckman like Preuss who was on the market. Worked well for Richmond getting Nankervis who has given them added toughness in the middle.

Bellchambers seems a bit soft and inconsistent to me.

Not the worst but not really that good.

 

[Vindicater]

Delusional pearlers is thataway. McEvoy is a spud.

Please enlighten me as to why McEvoy is a spud and Bellchambers is not?

 

[BrunoV]

I think your love of T-Bell has clouded your judgement.

McEvoy has been one of the most consistent ruckman in the league for the last 6-7 years.
I think most people outside of Essendon (and even some such as myself within the essendon community) would take McEvoy over Bellchambers any day.

T-Bells good is very good, but he swings between very good and barely noticeable far too often. Give me McEvoys 20 B to B+ grade games a year anyday.

Bellchambers is a difficult player to assess.

The creativity and impact of his hits to advantage may be the best in the league. It has consistently been good enough to paper over the cracks of a midfield that cant win the ball.

He can take a nice mark and kick a goal.

The rest of his game is as bad as it get for any ruck. He lumbers in the extreme, has no real physical presence around the ball (as much as he likes to get in the face of opponents).

It all balances out to put him in the mid range of ruckmen in my opinion.

McEvoy has been consistently good for a long time. The only part of the game Bellchambers has McEvoy covered is the quality of his hits to advantage.

 

[citizen-erased]

Reckon looking in isolation Dodoro did a good job firstly convincing Stringer, Saad, Smith and Shiel to join Essendon, then secondly getting them for a decent price (although Shiel didn't come cheap).

But yeah, list management is about more than isolated trades and drafting...it's about the list as a whole.

From what i've gathered Essendon have been lacking inside mids for quite a while now, and the fact that it's still an issue in 2019 really does lay at Dodoro's feet. Even Shiel, while a big bodied mid, is more known for his burst away from a stoppage than his inside mid, contested possession ability.

Having reliable inside mids would make your outside mids and quick players so much more dangerous as well as those types of players rely on getting the handball receives.

Myers and Zaharakhis probably should have been moved on and maybe use any currency received from them to try to land a decent inside mid.
It can happen quickly too...Hawthorn got James Worpel at pick 45 in the 2017 draft and he starred for them against Adelaide...i hate how good they are at developing kids.

Doesn't help that Heppell and Zach Merrett are playing well below what they're capable of right now...having those 2 and Myers having little impact really screws your midfield as they are slow.

Shiel had 18 contested possessions for this 25 overall, and we won the clearances.
Inside work isn't our issue.
Work rate is.

We could have Cripps and JPK in our midfield and we'd get slaughtered if that was the amount of defensive running we are going to do

 

[eth-dog]

He's much superior to Ceglar.

Calling him a "absolute spud" is a pearler in itself.

Yes, and I can name 20 ruckmen who are far superior to Ceglar.

Yeah, exactly lol

And that's an achievement how?

I think your love of T-Bell has clouded your judgement.

McEvoy has been one of the most consistent ruckman in the league for the last 6-7 years.
I think most people outside of Essendon (and even some such as myself within the essendon community) would take McEvoy over Bellchambers any day.

T-Bells good is very good, but he swings between very good and barely noticeable far too often. Give me McEvoys 20 B to B+ grade games a year anyday.

McEvoy is a guy who sometimes does a B grade game yet continually gets beaten by better ruckmen. Bellchambers has regularly pantsed Big Spud McEvoyand whilst Bellchambers does sometimes gets beaten, McEvoy would win at most half of his contests. Anybody putting McEvoy ahead of Bellchambers has rocks in their head.

Not sure about that. Definitely an area Essendon could improve on. Some of the inside mid woes may actually be helped by getting a tough, physical ruckman like Preuss who was on the market. Worked well for Richmond getting Nankervis who has given them added toughness in the middle.

Bellchambers seems a bit soft and inconsistent to me.

Not the worst but not really that good.

Could he be more physical, sure, but at the same time he had a higher hitout to advantage rate than anybody in the league last year except for Gawn.

 

[F_therest]

Shiel had 18 contested possessions for this 25 overall, and we won the clearances.
Inside work isn't our issue.
Work rate is.

We could have Cripps and JPK in our midfield and we'd get slaughtered if that was the amount of defensive running we are going to do

True...arguably coaching panel and leaders more at fault than Dodoro. Maybe even need to start questioning the fitness department...probably a bit of all.

This team played really good footy after round 8 last year so showed you are capable...just need that spirit and hunger for the contest and to run.
While Danniher and Hooker are big outs, Shiel has come in and GWS were missing guys like Ward, Kelly and Mumford as well.

Lack of work rate is a poor reason to lose in round 1 of a season where bigger things are expected. And it doesn't look like it was a good decision to play an underdone Merrett.

 

[citizen-erased]

True...arguably coaching panel and leaders more at fault than Dodoro. Maybe even need to start questioning the fitness department...probably a bit of all.

This team played really good footy after round 8 last year so showed you are capable...just need that spirit and hunger for the contest and to run.
While Danniher and Hooker are big outs, Shiel has come in and GWS were missing guys like Ward, Kelly and Mumford as well.

Lack of work rate is a poor reason to lose in round 1 of a season where bigger things are expected. And it doesn't look like it was a good decision to play an underdone Merrett.

Agree with all that

Its infuriating that I know we can do better. Cos I've seen it. Just not consistently.
Even more infuriating that the signs were there and this was to be expected after JLT
I had originally planned to travel to Syd for this game. I changed my mind after JLT.

Coaching panel, selection committee, fitness staff, leadership group - Failure at every level
I find it hard to blame this on list management. We had backups for Hooker and Daniher. Having to use them is not ideal. But their inclusions do not change the result.

 

[eth-dog]

Our fitness department has been below par for 20 years.

 

[84859300]

Bellchambers is a difficult player to assess.

The creativity and impact of his hits to advantage may be the best in the league. It has consistently been good enough to paper over the cracks of a midfield that cant win the ball.

He can take a nice mark and kick a goal.

The rest of his game is as bad as it get for any ruck. He lumbers in the extreme, has no real physical presence around the ball (as much as he likes to get in the face of opponents).

It all balances out to put him in the mid range of ruckmen in my opinion.

McEvoy has been consistently good for a long time. The only part of the game Bellchambers has McEvoy covered is the quality of his hits to advantage.

His game on Sunday was frustrating, to me. He had a distinct advantage over GWS's second and third string rucks, getting his hands on the ball first more often than not. After that, he didn't seem to produce much else. 7 disposals and no marks hurts for the other 100 minutes he was on the ground.

It was clearly different to when Smack had a run on the ball, where the hit outs were 50/50 or less.

Since Joe has been at FF, Tom's presence in the F50 has reduced greatly. I think that when he can clunk a mark within 50 that he is more than 50% to convert. It seem that he doesn't get to go forward much at all to add a different target option 40 out and with a mismatch.

 

[84859300]

I feel that our back 6 is a big issue, along with the depth we have recruited. I appreciate that Hooker out is a blow and changes dynamics, but only slightly.

For Sunday, we were named:

B

• Adam Saad,
• Patrick Ambrose,
• Conor McKenna

HB

• Mitch Brown (Francis)
• Michael Hurley,
• Jordan Ridley

Where it looked, on TV, that Brown was more forward and Francis slotted into the HBF at the bounce.

Of the 6, I feel that only Saad and Hurley are out and out back 6 material.

Ambrose - would not be a KPP with Hooker available
McKenna - still greatly experimental and lacks a key defensive mindset, where his first instinct is to run and not defend
Ridley - for a 4 game player he went ok on Sunday. But **** me, what would he be thinking for next week. Who will put up their hand and back him up?
Francis - may well be our next great white hope, but he is still only 11 games in to his AFL career. Still a long, long way to develop into his final form.

Of the 22 that were selected for R1, our depth chart of "Plan B" options for the back six included Baguley, McGrath, Guelfi and I even saw Zaharakis down there as well. Baguely was moved from there because his speed was a liability. McGrath was nurtured to be a full time mid and not a full time back. (My boy) Guelfi was out of his depth and the less said about Z's game, the better. Brown was thrown back well after the horse had bolted, but always looks lackadaisical at the best of times.

We need wins, so it's not a case of "throwing in the kids" just for the sake of it... but I feel changes need to happen.

Gleeson - his injury is still hurting us and the quicker we can determine if he is able to play back at a standard, the quicker we can reintroduce him in.
Mutch - to me, looked composed in his games where he played across the HB and FB lines, but as has been mentioned, he may be more touted to the wing. Hartley - has to pull his finger out and display something, as Gown and Zerk-Thatcher are in his wheelhouse, where he may be at the chance of missing out all together.

From our list, that's all I've got. I think that we have a big hole where we will constantly have one or two opposition forwards that feast out against us (read: Keith from Sunday). If we make minimal changes, we will get the same results week in, week out. If we force games into our kids, there will be pain while they develop.

 

[Ambrosia]

True...arguably coaching panel and leaders more at fault than Dodoro. Maybe even need to start questioning the fitness department...probably a bit of all.

This team played really good footy after round 8 last year so showed you are capable...just need that spirit and hunger for the contest and to run.
While Danniher and Hooker are big outs, Shiel has come in and GWS were missing guys like Ward, Kelly and Mumford as well.

Lack of work rate is a poor reason to lose in round 1 of a season where bigger things are expected. And it doesn't look like it was a good decision to play an underdone Merrett.

We are also poorly coached or incapable of implementing the game plan.

GWS as a side covered 94km more than we did.

Edit: Stat was wrong

 

[Lore]