Brexit - The UK referendum on leaving the EU - Reneging, reshmeging!

[Father Jack]

It would set a precedent where you can just take as long as you can to make a decision, make it as difficult as possible and then once you wear down the opposition, just re-ask the question till you get the answer you want. The real tragedy is that if there had been proper checks and balance rather than just expanding and expanding the integration into Europe without a democratic vote, the majority might have been happy to stay in the EU eg. if the people had been given a referendum on key issues like the free movement of people, the EU might be something that people overwhelmingly supported.

Well you'd think that if the Government were denying the will of the people that there'd be a clamour for them to do the people's will instead of people marching for another referendum. The thing here is that the original referendum was so poorly thought out that it delivered an outcome that is virtually impossible to implement.

 

[Mofra]

Hard brexit is what the brexit voters seem to want.

Yep - until they get it.
A lot of them are pensioners anyway I guess but the manufacturing areas will be decimated - and increase in the 6-7 minutes 'just in time' customs window completely destroys the economics of so much British manufacturing capacity.

 

[Chief]

Yep - until they get it.
A lot of them are pensioners anyway I guess but the manufacturing areas will be decimated - and increase in the 6-7 minutes 'just in time' customs window completely destroys the economics of so much British manufacturing capacity.

So it's a country that can't run an agricultural industry with local labour, and can't run a manufacturing industry with customs restrictions?

 

[Mofra]

So it's a country that can't run an agricultural industry with local labour, and can't run a manufacturing industry with customs restrictions?

Almost every country in Europe would struggle with their manufacturing (read: assembly) industry without the free movement of components. Nissan/Renault have already started weighting greater manufacturing capacity to France and less to the UK, and that's before we consider the tens of billions of Euros that have fled London for other European centres in preparation for Brexit.

 

[Chief]

Almost every country in Europe would struggle with their manufacturing (read: assembly) industry without the free movement of components. Nissan/Renault have already started weighting greater manufacturing capacity to France and less to the UK, and that's before we consider the tens of billions of Euros that have fled London for other European centres in preparation for Brexit.

So the obvious thing for the UK to do is cut off labour and put customs on the borders.

Genius.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Actually her deal is very close to what Corbyn wants ie customs union but not single market. If you take the view that the backstop is permanent and cant be escaped then it basically is what Corbyn wants ex gtess on workers rights and environmental standards.

She is far closer to what Corbyn wants than what the ERG wants.

Corbyn and Labour seem to be treating these things as non-trivial, more like deal-breakers.

 

[Del191229]

Wasn't the whole point of Brexit to restore parliamentary sovereignty?

 

[Del191229]

You're not looking at it cynically enough

Therese May doesn't actually care about Brexit, her aim is to use the issue to split the Labour Party and finish Corbyn's leadership. In pursuit of this aim she has deliberately chosen a deal that is unacceptable to the Labour leadership. She keeps putting it up for a vote under the threat of no-deal if the deadline expires, in order to provoke Labour MPs to lose their nerve and rebel and split from their leadership. She needs deadlines and cliff edges to make it happen. This is why she is against second referendums or lengthy extensions.

She does not want a sensible compromise plan with the broad support of the house, She wants division and chaos within the Labour Party. She is a party political animal through and through and the sensible consensus approach to important policy decisions is completely alien to her and goes against her instincts.

There's that, but far more importantly, May is trying to keep the Tories together. She knows they could split over Brexit. She doesn't want to go down as the last ever Tory leader.

 

[Malifice]

Wasn't the whole point of Brexit to restore parliamentary sovereignty?

Parliament never lost that.

They can (and always have been able to) choose to enact (or remove) any law they want, EU be damned.

Of course, the EU would have something to say about it (sanctions, booting them out etc).

 

[medusala]

So it's a country that can't run an agricultural industry with local labour, and can't run a manufacturing industry with customs restrictions?

Agriculture and the car industry didnt exist in the UK pre single market and freedom of movement.

There's that, but far more importantly, May is trying to keep the Tories together. She knows they could split over Brexit. She doesn't want to go down as the last ever Tory leader.

She has done a terrible job. The fool stuffed her cabinet full of remainers who are totally out of step with the membership and tory voters in general.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ers-would-choose-no-deal-over-may-brexit-plan

Survey also finds that in two-option poll, 76% would choose no deal over remain

 

[Chief]

Agriculture and the car industry didnt exist in the UK pre single market and freedom of movement.

Wait what!?

 

[medusala]

Wait what!?

The UK was going along just fine without freedom of movement and when customs checks were in place.

You would think it was in the dark ages before that if you listened to the fanatical remainbots.

 

[Chief]

The UK was going along just fine without freedom of movement and when customs checks were in place.

You would think it was in the dark ages before that if you listened to the fanatical remainbots.

The UK had no agriculture before the EU?

 

[Admiral Byng]

There's that, but far more importantly, May is trying to keep the Tories together. She knows they could split over Brexit. She doesn't want to go down as the last ever Tory leader.

A split in the party is going to be more or less inevitable. It may be preferable to what would follow a no-deal exit.

 

[medusala]

A split in the party is going to be more or less inevitable. It may be preferable to what would follow a no-deal exit.

The tip in certain circles is Rudd to team up with Boris to unite the party. Rudd knows she will never be leader as the members wont vote for a remainer.

The UK had no agriculture before the EU?

Of course it did. Its not like other EU countries would illegally ban UK ag products.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/dec/13/bse

 

[Admiral Byng]

The tip in certain circles is Rudd to team up with Boris to unite the party. Rudd knows she will never be leader as the members wont vote for a remainer.

There is no uniting the ERG to the rest of the party except for the party adopting a complete no-deal stance.
There is no chance of the rest of the party adopting that position, let alone the House of Commons.

 

[Chief]

The tip in certain circles is Rudd to team up with Boris to unite the party. Rudd knows she will never be leader as the members wont vote for a remainer.



Of course it did. Its not like other EU countries would illegally ban UK ag products.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/dec/13/bse

I still don’t get what you’re trying to say.

 

[Del191229]

The UK was going along just fine without freedom of movement and when customs checks were in place.

You would think it was in the dark ages before that if you listened to the fanatical remainbots.

What a load of shit.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Wait what!?

I think he was being sarcastic; that there was agriculture and manufacturing before joining eu; the problem is trying to restart it with the sudden pricing/ tariff changes will be a shock/ difficult.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I think he was being sarcastic; that there was agriculture and manufacturing before joining eu; the problem is trying to restart it with the sudden pricing/ tariff changes will be a shock/ difficult.

Also the world has changed just a tad

Just in time manufacturing was only happening in Japan when the UK joined the EEC

 

[Mofra]

What a load of shit.

It's like Black Wednesday never happened.

 

[Chief]

I think he was being sarcastic

Impossible to tell.

 

[Chief]

It's like Black Wednesday never happened.

#SOROS !!!111!!!

 

[its free real estate]

The EU just made memes illegal. What a great organisation.

 

[JackOutback]

The EU just made memes illegal. What a great organisation.

Don't let truth get in the way of some good old fashioned outrage. Also, it's still up to member states to approve it or not. I don't necessarily agree with the law, would need to look into it some more, but this lack of context is why modern debate is ****ed.

Article 13: Memes exempt as EU backs controversial copyright law
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47708144