Player Watch #11: Jason Castagna - signed to 2023

[Meteoric Rise]

I wouldn't mind seeing him play some VFL games, it will only help him with his poise and touch. I think most of the players who play these roles, Butler, Castagna, Bolton, Baker, maybe even Aarts, should be rotated in and out of the AFL and VFL teams. There is probably not a lot between all of them and at this stage they are all marginal AFL players who need to be kept hungry and to some extent fresh in order to get the best out of them at AFL level. It also keeps opposition teams guessing a bit.

Higgins and Rioli I think are good enough to play consistently at AFL level whilst fit.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Put the stats up.... I have said if my life depended on it on a shot at goal 15-20 out I would rather have Richo than George kicking for me

Interesting stats in yesterday's paper.


Charlie Cameron 60 goals in his first 50 games,
Jade Gresham 58 in first 50 games,
George, 54 in his first 50 games.
Eddie Betts 51 in 50 games,


Not bad for a bloke who can't kick.

 

[Tango67]

can't kick, handball or mark....
can tackle and fly for unsuccessful speccies that's it

 

[Mogwai]

I promised a write-up on Jason in my autopsy post.

I am fairly certain he was a winger/striker at Bulleen before he found his way into Australian Rules. He doesn't strike me as a player who has had a football in his hands throughout his junior years. The conversation about players transitioning over from other sports tends to focus on rugby [Heeney?, Hunt, Folau] and basketball [Cox, Pendlebury] but not soccer. His attacking instincts are there, and he manipulates space well. I'll explain more.

I like him a lot - I like his speed and effort. I can accuse Butler of low effort, whereas it would be difficult to say the same of Castagna. Where I say he manipulates space well, it is ultimately due to his ability to create, occupy and anticipate spaces where he can and should be in due to his speed. This ability is both offensive and defensive and is pivotal to the game. Key forwards manipulate space by leads and physical contests, but their defensive role is muted. Small forwards need to be two-way players and Castagna does it better than most. As a defensive forward - yes an oxymoronic role that has been integral for us since Jake King - he is one of the best.

However, his skills are awful. He could be the worst skilled player in the competition. He lacks composure in addition to his skill. I have described him as a ball of anxiety countless times. This anxiety and lack of skill would seem to be a gift to the opposition always - or does it? As a coach of an opposing team I would have a minor problem when it comes to the question of Castagna. Would you give him your quickest defender [typically your best rebounder as well. but the ball will never be kicked in #11's direction for a quick rebound, plus you would risk #11 chasing him down], or a better defender [probably unwarranted given #11's skills], or just let him roam free to double up on someone more damaging?

Ultimately, Castagna averages a goal [and one behind], two I50s, and 2.8 tackles a game. That's comparable to Tom Papley from the Swans, and Sam Gray from Port. [One wears #11, the other #46, spooky.] Both of them are respectable, best-22 players who play for top-8 quality teams and we're acting as if Castagna doesn't belong here. The criticism towards him is ultimately emotional, irrational and shallow.

All he does is produce questions for both teams. For us, we know the questions that he brings forth - will he fumble this easy handball for instance - for them, it's more of a question of, what the **** do we actually do with this guy?

 

[Tygrys]

I wouldn't mind seeing him play some VFL games, it will only help him with his poise and touch. I think most of the players who play these roles, Butler, Castagna, Bolton, Baker, maybe even Aarts, should be rotated in and out of the AFL and VFL teams. There is probably not a lot between all of them and at this stage they are all marginal AFL players who need to be kept hungry and to some extent fresh in order to get the best out of them at AFL level. It also keeps opposition teams guessing a bit.

Higgins and Rioli I think are good enough to play consistently at AFL level whilst fit.

There is a hell of a lot between Castagna (bearing in mind this is thread about him) and Bolton. Bolton last Saturday in one game showed more poise, more skill ,more talent and more awareness than Castagna has in his entire career Castagna is an express bull in a china shop, sometimes he crashes through, other times he just crashes. Bolton on the other hand is silk. Could you ever imagine Castagna doing that magic piece of evasion on the boundary line that resulted in a goal? Plus let's be honest if there is a merry-go-round and Bolton is on it, he'll be gone at the end of the year, as some club will definitely snap him up. The others especially Castagna would struggle to even get rookie listed.

 

[Marcel Proust]

There is a hell of a lot between Castagna (bearing in mind this is thread about him) and Bolton. Bolton last Saturday in one game showed more poise, more skill ,more talent and more awareness than Castagna has in his entire career Castagna is an express bull in a china shop, sometimes he crashes through, other times he just crashes. Bolton on the other hand is silk. Could you ever imagine Castagna doing that magic piece of evasion on the boundary line that resulted in a goal? Plus let's be honest if there is a merry-go-round and Bolton is on it, he'll be gone at the end of the year, as some club will definitely snap him up. The others especially Castagna would struggle to even get rookie listed.

Bolton had a good game but he has a lot of quiet games too.

Obviously Id like to see Bolton sign a long term deal at Richmond and stay in 22 but there is a reason he was recently behind Stengle and the club thought the better draft Aarts

 

[Mogwai]

I welcome a shitfight over Castagna to everyone here.

Could you ever imagine Castagna doing that magic piece of evasion on the boundary line that resulted in a goal?

Yes. Imagining though.

 

[Achilles Heel]

Bolton had a good game but he has a lot of quiet games too.

Obviously Id like to see Bolton sign a long term deal at Richmond and stay in 22 but there is a reason he was recently behind Stengle and the club thought the better draft Aarts

Ow many senior games has Bolton played to have a lot of quiet ones, get real, 9 games let’s look at George’s first 9

And stengle is gone club let him walk

 

[tigerwill]

You're not understanding the situation at all. Take away the crowd and TV cameras and he's close to elite. His problems on the big stage are mental.

I'm understanding that his skills let him down. That affects the team.
Well it's a pity he plays a game that draws crowds and is on tv isn't it. If he's "close to elite" I've yet to see it. If crowds and tv cameras have such a profound effect and it affects him mentally he should work at it at VFL level. Maybe small crowds and less cameras will see him improve. But I doubt it. He is what he is, a very flawed footballer, skill wise and decision making. He's make a contribution but we now have far more skilled and better footballers for his position. Players that aren't affected by crowds or TVs cameras

 

[Marcel Proust]

Ow many senior games has Bolton played to have a lot of quiet ones, get real, 9 games let’s look at George’s first 9

And stengle is gone club let him walk

Georges 9th game:

16 touches
6 marks
4 goals
2 tackles
7 inside 60s

I was referring to the vfl in regards to Shai Bolton - cause he has only played four senior games over the last two seasons. The fact that Aarts often got among it more and Bolton was behind Stengle is a problem?

that said Bolton is probable the type of player that would do better at AFL with higher quality team mates

I'm understanding that his skills let him down. That affects the team.
Well it's a pity he plays a game that draws crowds and is on tv isn't it. If he's "close to elite" I've yet to see it. If crowds and tv cameras have such a profound effect and it affects him mentally he should work at it at VFL level. Maybe small crowds and less cameras will see him improve. But I doubt it. He is what he is, a very flawed footballer, skill wise and decision making. He's make a contribution but we now have far more skilled and better footballers for his position. Players that aren't affected by crowds or TVs cameras

he is 22 year old

might get better

 

[Mogwai]

Ow many senior games has Bolton played to have a lot of quiet ones, ge5 real

All bar his Sydney game. Averages 7.9 disposals and .33 goals outside of it in 9 games.

 

[Tygrys]

Bolton had a good game but he has a lot of quiet games too.

Obviously Id like to see Bolton sign a long term deal at Richmond and stay in 22 but there is a reason he was recently behind Stengle and the club thought the better draft Aarts

I think some people forget how young this guy is. Bolton just turned 20 in December. He played the majority of his matches as an 18 year old whose physique was so slight Robin Nahas could have kicked sand in his face. If you want to hold those games against him now two years later, when he clearly wasn't ready, well that's your decision. To me I look at him as a completely new recruit and consider those matches utterly and completely irrelevant. And a new recruit frankly that has more raw talent in his little pinky than Castagna has in his entire body.

 

[Mile High Tiger]

I'm understanding that his skills let him down. That affects the team.
Well it's a pity he plays a game that draws crowds and is on tv isn't it. If he's "close to elite" I've yet to see it. If crowds and tv cameras have such a profound effect and it affects him mentally he should work at it at VFL level. Maybe small crowds and less cameras will see him improve. But I doubt it. He is what he is, a very flawed footballer, skill wise and decision making. He's make a contribution but we now have far more skilled and better footballers for his position. Players that aren't affected by crowds or TVs cameras

Yeah that, or we could persist with a very good player, with some unique assets, who is likely to overcome his issues with maturity.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

There is a hell of a lot between Castagna (bearing in mind this is thread about him) and Bolton. Bolton last Saturday in one game showed more poise, more skill ,more talent and more awareness than Castagna has in his entire career Castagna is an express bull in a china shop, sometimes he crashes through, other times he just crashes. Bolton on the other hand is silk. Could you ever imagine Castagna doing that magic piece of evasion on the boundary line that resulted in a goal? Plus let's be honest if there is a merry-go-round and Bolton is on it, he'll be gone at the end of the year, as some club will definitely snap him up. The others especially Castagna would struggle to even get rookie listed.

In comparing the two players you are measuring them solely on Bolton's strengths and Castagna's weaknesses. This is not what you would want a selector doing. You would want your selectors measuring and comparing their impact on the team's performance overall. So in answer to your post we could equally say in one match on Saturday night Castagna had more goal assists, more tackles, showed more physical presence, covered more ground and played more minutes than Bolton ever has.

The team has already proven it can function well and be very successful with Castagna playing. So it is not a case of you must get rid of the guy at all costs. I would be surprised if Bolton doesn't end up a higher rated player than Castagna, but it is no certainty. Bolton at this early stage lacks physical presence and possibly stamina. I have played some footy in the forward line next to players with no physical presence and it really is not easy. You go for the ball against their opponent and yours. You miraculously win the contest you are compelled to give it to the free player who then does something flashy with it and looks a star. If you lose the contest - which you mostly will - you look like a person who loses contests. Modern AFL selectors don't fall for this trap. Football is not just a game of decision making, speed, skill and poise. Strength, courage and stamina are also very highly valued characteristics of a good player.

I love Bolton as a prospect and hope he gets plenty more matches but it should rightly be on merit and measured against his impact on the team's performance. And for me Castagna has good runs on the board, played pretty well on Saturday night despite a few clangers, and still has plenty to offer the team, though I do not necessarily think he should be a permanent fixture as outlined in my earlier post.

 

[Cdog71]

You can’t fault his effort, I thought he was one of our best in the first half.
It is the only area on the ground you could play him and right now he’s offering more than Butler

 

[Del65166]

I promised a write-up on Jason in my autopsy post.

I am fairly certain he was a winger/striker at Bulleen before he found his way into Australian Rules. He doesn't strike me as a player who has had a football in his hands throughout his junior years. The conversation about players transitioning over from other sports tends to focus on rugby [Heeney?, Hunt, Folau] and basketball [Cox, Pendlebury] but not soccer. His attacking instincts are there, and he manipulates space well. I'll explain more.

I like him a lot - I like his speed and effort. I can accuse Butler of low effort, whereas it would be difficult to say the same of Castagna. Where I say he manipulates space well, it is ultimately due to his ability to create, occupy and anticipate spaces where he can and should be in due to his speed. This ability is both offensive and defensive and is pivotal to the game. Key forwards manipulate space by leads and physical contests, but their defensive role is muted. Small forwards need to be two-way players and Castagna does it better than most. As a defensive forward - yes an oxymoronic role that has been integral for us since Jake King - he is one of the best.

However, his skills are awful. He could be the worst skilled player in the competition. He lacks composure in addition to his skill. I have described him as a ball of anxiety countless times. This anxiety and lack of skill would seem to be a gift to the opposition always - or does it? As a coach of an opposing team I would have a minor problem when it comes to the question of Castagna. Would you give him your quickest defender [typically your best rebounder as well. but the ball will never be kicked in #11's direction for a quick rebound, plus you would risk #11 chasing him down], or a better defender [probably unwarranted given #11's skills], or just let him roam free to double up on someone more damaging?

Ultimately, Castagna averages a goal [and one behind], two I50s, and 2.8 tackles a game. That's comparable to Tom Papley from the Swans, and Sam Gray from Port. [One wears #11, the other #46, spooky.] Both of them are respectable, best-22 players who play for top-8 quality teams and we're acting as if Castagna doesn't belong here. The criticism towards him is ultimately emotional, irrational and shallow.

All he does is produce questions for both teams. For us, we know the questions that he brings forth - will he fumble this easy handball for instance - for them, it's more of a question of, what the **** do we actually do with this guy?

Well put. He is chaos in the fwd line. and I reckon our flag was built on that. Port game was the first one for a while where we looked like the Tigers of 2017. Chaotic fwd line. I thought George's first qtr. was great. I have to rewatch the game to to focus on the other 3 qtrs. I like that Shai is in the middle. Lambo & Prestia were both good. I hope Shai stays in the middle. And I didn't focus on Baker. I hope that both George and Baker stay in. And only a midfielder comes out for Dusty. The team seemed to be on autopilot last year. I'm glad all this chaos has been inflicted on our list because it is the only way Baker, Bolton, Ross, SS would get a game.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

I promised a write-up on Jason in my autopsy post.

I am fairly certain he was a winger/striker at Bulleen before he found his way into Australian Rules. He doesn't strike me as a player who has had a football in his hands throughout his junior years. The conversation about players transitioning over from other sports tends to focus on rugby [Heeney?, Hunt, Folau] and basketball [Cox, Pendlebury] but not soccer. His attacking instincts are there, and he manipulates space well. I'll explain more.

I like him a lot - I like his speed and effort. I can accuse Butler of low effort, whereas it would be difficult to say the same of Castagna. Where I say he manipulates space well, it is ultimately due to his ability to create, occupy and anticipate spaces where he can and should be in due to his speed. This ability is both offensive and defensive and is pivotal to the game. Key forwards manipulate space by leads and physical contests, but their defensive role is muted. Small forwards need to be two-way players and Castagna does it better than most. As a defensive forward - yes an oxymoronic role that has been integral for us since Jake King - he is one of the best.

However, his skills are awful. He could be the worst skilled player in the competition. He lacks composure in addition to his skill. I have described him as a ball of anxiety countless times. This anxiety and lack of skill would seem to be a gift to the opposition always - or does it? As a coach of an opposing team I would have a minor problem when it comes to the question of Castagna. Would you give him your quickest defender [typically your best rebounder as well. but the ball will never be kicked in #11's direction for a quick rebound, plus you would risk #11 chasing him down], or a better defender [probably unwarranted given #11's skills], or just let him roam free to double up on someone more damaging?

Ultimately, Castagna averages a goal [and one behind], two I50s, and 2.8 tackles a game. That's comparable to Tom Papley from the Swans, and Sam Gray from Port. [One wears #11, the other #46, spooky.] Both of them are respectable, best-22 players who play for top-8 quality teams and we're acting as if Castagna doesn't belong here. The criticism towards him is ultimately emotional, irrational and shallow.

All he does is produce questions for both teams. For us, we know the questions that he brings forth - will he fumble this easy handball for instance - for them, it's more of a question of, what the **** do we actually do with this guy?

Well argued...I like georgie 54 goals in 50 games is damm good...he is super quick...can fly for a speccie...and can chase down defenders with scary pressure..
I see Georgie like a young Sheds, Rancey, trying to do too much and making some funny clangers...
He is still a young player and i would persevere with georgie till other players bang the door down to be selected...

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

One thing about georgie...being an ex soccer player he sure can fly for a speccie!
So the talent is there to do the extraordinary...
It's just a question whether we as a club value young georgie's growing talent and nurture it or bail out for more traditional and recognisable players..

 

[Grrr]

Bolton was fantastic on the weekend and will only get better. He is a one touch player who can get the ball in the heat and give it to someone in a better position, like Stack. Shane Edwards was nowhere near the calibre of these two at the same age and look at him now. Class players. He will have some quiet games but so does Castagna and Butler.
I like Castagna, he gives great pressure and is important in our forward half because of his speed. He will always have to play at his best because the wolves are snapping at his heels. Look at Butler right now. I know this is heresy on here, but I think Higgins is not the next coming due to his lack of speed. I can't see much upside.

 

[Sir_Loin]

I promised a write-up on Jason in my autopsy post.

I am fairly certain he was a winger/striker at Bulleen before he found his way into Australian Rules. He doesn't strike me as a player who has had a football in his hands throughout his junior years. The conversation about players transitioning over from other sports tends to focus on rugby [Heeney?, Hunt, Folau] and basketball [Cox, Pendlebury] but not soccer. His attacking instincts are there, and he manipulates space well. I'll explain more.

I like him a lot - I like his speed and effort. I can accuse Butler of low effort, whereas it would be difficult to say the same of Castagna. Where I say he manipulates space well, it is ultimately due to his ability to create, occupy and anticipate spaces where he can and should be in due to his speed. This ability is both offensive and defensive and is pivotal to the game. Key forwards manipulate space by leads and physical contests, but their defensive role is muted. Small forwards need to be two-way players and Castagna does it better than most. As a defensive forward - yes an oxymoronic role that has been integral for us since Jake King - he is one of the best.

However, his skills are awful. He could be the worst skilled player in the competition. He lacks composure in addition to his skill. I have described him as a ball of anxiety countless times. This anxiety and lack of skill would seem to be a gift to the opposition always - or does it? As a coach of an opposing team I would have a minor problem when it comes to the question of Castagna. Would you give him your quickest defender [typically your best rebounder as well. but the ball will never be kicked in #11's direction for a quick rebound, plus you would risk #11 chasing him down], or a better defender [probably unwarranted given #11's skills], or just let him roam free to double up on someone more damaging?

Ultimately, Castagna averages a goal [and one behind], two I50s, and 2.8 tackles a game. That's comparable to Tom Papley from the Swans, and Sam Gray from Port. [One wears #11, the other #46, spooky.] Both of them are respectable, best-22 players who play for top-8 quality teams and we're acting as if Castagna doesn't belong here. The criticism towards him is ultimately emotional, irrational and shallow.

All he does is produce questions for both teams. For us, we know the questions that he brings forth - will he fumble this easy handball for instance - for them, it's more of a question of, what the **** do we actually do with this guy?

I think it’s as simple as low confidence because he’s badly out of form that’s his skills are suffering. Like you say he’s working hard enough but it’s just not coming together for him. No harm him going back to VFL level to get some form back. Butler went back and had a good game.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Bolton was fantastic on the weekend and will only get better. He is a one touch player who can get the ball in the heat and give it to someone in a better position, like Stack. Shane Edwards was nowhere near the calibre of these two at the same age and look at him now. Class players. He will have some quiet games but so does Castagna and Butler.
I like Castagna, he gives great pressure and is important in our forward half because of his speed. He will always have to play at his best because the wolves are snapping at his heels. Look at Butler right now. I know this is heresy on here, but I think Higgins is not the next coming due to his lack of speed. I can't see much upside.

That was my concern about Higgo too, his lack of speed...but he sure thinks quick on his feet!

 

[Grrr]

That was my concern about Higgo too, his lack of speed...but he sure thinks quick on his feet!

Super smart and can go through the midfield. Playing good footy at the moment but with a full list he will want to keep in form.

 

[Tygrys]

In comparing the two players you are measuring them solely on Bolton's strengths and Castagna's weaknesses. This is not what you would want a selector doing. You would want your selectors measuring and comparing their impact on the team's performance overall. So in answer to your post we could equally say in one match on Saturday night Castagna had more goal assists, more tackles, showed more physical presence, covered more ground and played more minutes than Bolton ever has.

The team has already proven it can function well and be very successful with Castagna playing. So it is not a case of you must get rid of the guy at all costs. I would be surprised if Bolton doesn't end up a higher rated player than Castagna, but it is no certainty. Bolton at this early stage lacks physical presence and possibly stamina. I have played some footy in the forward line next to players with no physical presence and it really is not easy. You go for the ball against their opponent and yours. You miraculously win the contest you are compelled to give it to the free player who then does something flashy with it and looks a star. If you lose the contest - which you mostly will - you look like a person who loses contests. Modern AFL selectors don't fall for this trap. Football is not just a game of decision making, speed, skill and poise. Strength, courage and stamina are also very highly valued characteristics of a good player.

I love Bolton as a prospect and hope he gets plenty more matches but it should rightly be on merit and measured against his impact on the team's performance. And for me Castagna has good runs on the board, played pretty well on Saturday night despite a few clangers, and still has plenty to offer the team, though I do not necessarily think he should be a permanent fixture as outlined in my earlier post.

Some people have such low standards for Castagna that they would never apply to any other player. He's a small forward but he is an appalling kick and a poor handball (and that's not even touching upon his questionable awareness and marking). So what are his weapons? Well he tackles, he applies physical pressure and...well that's it. As I made the case in a previous post if that's the only reason he is being selected then it's a very poor reflection on the rest of the forward line because that should be a non-negotiable for every player. As I said selecting a football player simply because he chases and tackles is like selecting a batsman in cricket team that can't bat simply for his fielding. It's not sustainable. Likewise basking in the reflective glory of other players because he had an 'assist' is not valid either. Again harking back to cricket, reminds me of years ago when Tim May was under pressure for not doing his job whilst Shane Warne was taking wickets. How did his fan club deal with that situation? Well they just redefined his role, he was now a 'deadly decoy' Likewise with Castagna the small forward who can't kick and handball is now there to simply apply pressure. Moreover, this whole notion of 'assist' needs to be put into context. All goals are a result of a chain of events. handballs, kicks, spoils - whatever. Assisting is great but how many assist can it be said that if it wasn't for Castagna, if it was any other player (one that hasn't got crap bush league leavel skills, one that can actually kick, hand pass etc) those goals would never have happened. I can point out one with Bolton, the brilliance on the boundary where he danced and evaded and passed to a teamate for a set shot at goal. That one moment of brilliance encapsulated everything Castagna isn't and never will be.

At the moment Castagna is in survival mode and he knows it, he had 11 disposals, only two of which were kicks. His confidence is shot, he'll do anything he can to avoid kicking it (think a small forward that's afraid to kick). You might say well, yeah but as long as he handballs like that and applies pressure he'll be fine. Well even his handball is a liability. If that handball in concluding stages of the match, that handball that even a junior suburban footballer should have nailed, that left the commentators utterly speechless, if that had cost us the match as we all feared, then this would be a very different conversation. Everyone would up in arms saying enough is enough and demanding his head on a stick and rightly so. Bottomline is he is simply not an AFL standard footballer and a liability. He survives simply on the basis of doing something that should be a non-negotiable for every player regardless of position. He needs to be sent back to reserves to allow him to sort out his issues (not that I think at his age that will make any difference, but that's what the reserves are there for and he should be given an opportunity). We'll do just fine without him. True we might miss his 'pressure' but getting a player in that can actually kick and handball at an AFL level would more than compensate for that. Hopefully it'll be Martin for Castagna but either way his time is running out.

 

[Tygrys]

Bolton was fantastic on the weekend and will only get better. He is a one touch player who can get the ball in the heat and give it to someone in a better position, like Stack. Shane Edwards was nowhere near the calibre of these two at the same age and look at him now. Class players. He will have some quiet games but so does Castagna and Butler.
I like Castagna, he gives great pressure and is important in our forward half because of his speed. He will always have to play at his best because the wolves are snapping at his heels. Look at Butler right now. I know this is heresy on here, but I think Higgins is not the next coming due to his lack of speed. I can't see much upside.

Higgins had been our best small forward until last Saturday. He was a liability in front of goal last year but sorted it out during the summer, unlike Castagna who skill issues appear unfixable. Higgins is going fine.

 

[Mogwai]

just to let you know tygyrs, you had around 500 words of material there with one statistic, and instead chose to attempt to devalue the notion of goal assists while trying to talk up Bolton's goal assist which was the only play pointed out.

Zero comparative statistical analyses, and incredibly harsh sweeping generalisations that I'm sure in the future will result in a post along the lines of "I still think he is shit but..."

With that, the temerity to talk about low quality production...