Crisis meeting - Hun reports

[Snake_Baker]

Could it be personality rather than just understanding the game styles?

Could it actually be the game style?

 

[Gasometer]

I’m not on board with the current game plan either.

I sat ground level in the forward pocket with a bloke that really knows his footy, let’s just say he’s very in touch with the afl community and played at a very high level.

He/we could’nt believe how stagnant we were both when they won the ball and when we won it.

Game plan or not, that will never win football matches.

Players jogging around, not providing an outlet or defensive pressure. It’s at its worst on kick ins and trying to lock the ball inside our 50.

Val I would barely say Mark Jacko Jackson is up with the modern game, just sayin...

 

[Billy Not Really]

Just on the whole new players and "not gelling" thing that was mentioned earlier in the thread.

Could it be personality rather than just understanding the game styles?

Hall and McMillan had a fair verbal stoush at one stage on GF. Then later at the same end, Polec slotted a goal and received exactly zero pats on the back, head rubs and high fives between slotting the goal and running back to the wing.

I wonder if everything's just a little bit funky at the moment.

Its a bit of everything as each week goes by to me, from the outside looking in.

We've clearly lost every ounce of culture since 2016 and our veterans left, there hasn't been anything new to us other than the fresh faces but you don't build culture off of that. I thought there was something of a bond forming with the group in 2018 through the face of 'Us against them' but somethings been lost, could it be the new guys? Maybe.

Players & coach has been a disconnect, we've gone from inconsistent to flat out horrible. Some players like Ahern clearly seem to have done something to raise the ire of Brad.

And in regards to the Hall & Macmillan thing, what's new. He points fingers all the time, whether we like it or not he's the Brendan Goddard of this team. I don't think I've ever seen the bloke take responsibility for himself on-field.

 

[Themanbun]

...could it be the new guys? Maybe..

Not suggesting that you are running with this line, but I've seen it said a few times around here that the 'new guys' could have caused a culture shift.

As I see it, it's predominantly three blokes (Dom Tyson has hardly played, ditto Campbell).

1. Pittard has been manic in his attack on the ball and man. He's playing really well, and shown a lot of mongrel IMO.
2. Polec has been fine - he's tried to break tackles, he has provided run and more than a few times he's gathered the ball and tried to bust through blokes. There was one passage against Essendon when he was the only bloke running his guts out, and it resulted in our first shot on goal through Goldstein. Never been a huge tackler but has performed his role and on numerous occasions been one of the few to run where everyone else has given up. Cops unfair criticism because of his price tag.
3. Hall - much has been said about the defensive side of his game, but IMO he has shown a bit of mongrel there, as much as his position allows. Ran down a few blokes on the weekend.

What kind of culture shift could these three guys have possibly caused within the team? From where I see it, they seem to be busting their guts to prove themselves to their new teammates. I'm not sure how much disruption a mere three guys can have (how many newbies do we blood every year and this hasn't been a problem in the past), and given the way they are playing and applying themselves - what does it say about the rest of our blokes if we can't fit them in 'culturally'?

 

[ferball]

Not suggesting that you are running with this line, but I've seen it said a few times around here that the 'new guys' could have caused a culture shift.

As I see it, it's predominantly three blokes (Dom Tyson has hardly played, ditto Campbell).

1. Pittard has been manic in his attack on the ball and man. He's playing really well, and shown a lot of mongrel IMO.
2. Polec has been fine - he's tried to break tackles, he has provided run and more than a few times he's gathered the ball and tried to bust through blokes. There was one passage against Essendon when he was the only bloke running his guts out, and it resulted in our first shot on goal through Goldstein. Never been a huge tackler but has performed his role and on numerous occasions been one of the few to run where everyone else has given up. Cops unfair criticism because of his price tag.
3. Hall - much has been said about the defensive side of his game, but IMO he has shown a bit of mongrel there, as much as his position allows. Ran down a few blokes on the weekend.

What kind of culture shift could these three guys have possibly caused within the team? From where I see it, they seem to be busting their guts to prove themselves to their new teammates. I'm not sure how much disruption a mere three guys can have (how many newbies do we blood every year and this hasn't been a problem in the past), and given the way they are playing and applying themselves - what does it say about the rest of our blokes if we can't fit them in 'culturally'?

That's pretty much on the money. None of those guys have been poor, even Tyson played hard footy and was leading our tackling at one point.

 

[Hazey1977]

His attitude stinks at the moment also. Couldn’t be arsed a few times last week. One goal in particular comes to mind. Poor effort to gather the ball, instant goal to the Bombers. Was momentum sapping and he didn’t show any care or acknowledgement, nor any desire to make amends. Was reminiscent of the Tarrant clanger against the Hawks a few weeks back, where Taz didn’t show any care either.

Our leadership group are setting some very poor standards this year - it’s not just Jack.

Who wants to take up the mantle?

So up until this season, for me, or felt like the players were still with Brad. Do you think Higgins perceived on field behaviour hints that he is losing them?

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[Hazey1977]

AFLPA won't be happy with a 100% increase in contact hours.... [emoji2958][emoji2960][emoji51]

Doubled down....do things twice? Wat does mean?

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[Billy Not Really]

Not suggesting that you are running with this line, but I've seen it said a few times around here that the 'new guys' could have caused a culture shift.

As I see it, it's predominantly three blokes (Dom Tyson has hardly played, ditto Campbell).

1. Pittard has been manic in his attack on the ball and man. He's playing really well, and shown a lot of mongrel IMO.
2. Polec has been fine - he's tried to break tackles, he has provided run and more than a few times he's gathered the ball and tried to bust through blokes. There was one passage against Essendon when he was the only bloke running his guts out, and it resulted in our first shot on goal through Goldstein. Never been a huge tackler but has performed his role and on numerous occasions been one of the few to run where everyone else has given up. Cops unfair criticism because of his price tag.
3. Hall - much has been said about the defensive side of his game, but IMO he has shown a bit of mongrel there, as much as his position allows. Ran down a few blokes on the weekend.

What kind of culture shift could these three guys have possibly caused within the team? From where I see it, they seem to be busting their guts to prove themselves to their new teammates. I'm not sure how much disruption a mere three guys can have (how many newbies do we blood every year and this hasn't been a problem in the past), and given the way they are playing and applying themselves - what does it say about the rest of our blokes if we can't fit them in 'culturally'?

Don't have anything I can add to that, you've got it.

For the record I certainly don't subscribe to thinking any new additions to the team especially these blokes who seem pretty open to experiencing change and embracing the club, has changed culture or disrupted even our skill level. If anything Brad isn't coaching properly to use these guys to their strengths but then again he doesn't even do that with the other guys, he prefers them all to be 'all rounders'.

Plus the fact he used the 'too many new blokes' as an excuse for a loss in one week and its been perpetuated by the media as 'well maybe this is why North are shit' is just another case of Scott getting away from further scrutiny.

 

[Hazey1977]

Scott: Main work has been on how we don’t concede big scores from centre bounces. We’ve conceded 130, next worst 62, making an incredible difference to the way we play.

Am I interpreting this right? We're twice as bad as the 2nd worst team in the comp at conceding from centre bounces?

How the hell does that even happen? What happened to the old 2 goals in a row, man up at the bounce?!?!?

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[Thewlis Dish]

It's definitely the new guys who have come in and upset this well-oiled machine that finishes 10th every year.

 

[Hazey1977]

What our culture is and always has been is an emphasis on hard work and striving for excellence in all conditions.
You excell with what your given and the choices you make, not via a handicap that you need to overcome.
He has to go.

Thanks so much Tazaa for so succinctly and accurately defining what being a Shinboner is about.

I actually think it's the best definition I've heard.

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[Orange Peanut]

Not suggesting that you are running with this line, but I've seen it said a few times around here that the 'new guys' could have caused a culture shift.

As I see it, it's predominantly three blokes (Dom Tyson has hardly played, ditto Campbell).

1. Pittard has been manic in his attack on the ball and man. He's playing really well, and shown a lot of mongrel IMO.
2. Polec has been fine - he's tried to break tackles, he has provided run and more than a few times he's gathered the ball and tried to bust through blokes. There was one passage against Essendon when he was the only bloke running his guts out, and it resulted in our first shot on goal through Goldstein. Never been a huge tackler but has performed his role and on numerous occasions been one of the few to run where everyone else has given up. Cops unfair criticism because of his price tag.
3. Hall - much has been said about the defensive side of his game, but IMO he has shown a bit of mongrel there, as much as his position allows. Ran down a few blokes on the weekend.

What kind of culture shift could these three guys have possibly caused within the team? From where I see it, they seem to be busting their guts to prove themselves to their new teammates. I'm not sure how much disruption a mere three guys can have (how many newbies do we blood every year and this hasn't been a problem in the past), and given the way they are playing and applying themselves - what does it say about the rest of our blokes if we can't fit them in 'culturally'?

Agree with you tmb, I just found it interesting to observe - and I wonder if we haven't quite absorbed a couple of these personalities as well as we might have in the past.

 

[Hazey1977]

Not suggesting that you are running with this line, but I've seen it said a few times around here that the 'new guys' could have caused a culture shift.

As I see it, it's predominantly three blokes (Dom Tyson has hardly played, ditto Campbell).

1. Pittard has been manic in his attack on the ball and man. He's playing really well, and shown a lot of mongrel IMO.
2. Polec has been fine - he's tried to break tackles, he has provided run and more than a few times he's gathered the ball and tried to bust through blokes. There was one passage against Essendon when he was the only bloke running his guts out, and it resulted in our first shot on goal through Goldstein. Never been a huge tackler but has performed his role and on numerous occasions been one of the few to run where everyone else has given up. Cops unfair criticism because of his price tag.
3. Hall - much has been said about the defensive side of his game, but IMO he has shown a bit of mongrel there, as much as his position allows. Ran down a few blokes on the weekend.

What kind of culture shift could these three guys have possibly caused within the team? From where I see it, they seem to be busting their guts to prove themselves to their new teammates. I'm not sure how much disruption a mere three guys can have (how many newbies do we blood every year and this hasn't been a problem in the past), and given the way they are playing and applying themselves - what does it say about the rest of our blokes if we can't fit them in 'culturally'?

Could be the old; "stop working too hard, you're making us look bad..." From Brad's residents to the new guys...

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[Val Keating]

Val I would barely say Mark Jacko Jackson is up with the modern game, just sayin...

Agree. If Jacko went to the footy he’d be trying his best to get on tv.

 

[Gasometer]

Agree. If Jacko went to the footy he’d be trying his best to get on tv.

Lol

 

[Orange Peanut]

It's definitely the new guys who have come in and upset this well-oiled machine that finishes 10th every year.

Yeah fair enough but when you bring 4 x 25yo 100 gamers into your club, there is probably an expectation of an immediate impact. I think it's worth exploring whether it's just a crap coach with a shit game plan that's the issue.

 

[giantroo]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...om-north-s-real-problems-20190425-p51h7y.html


Coach rumblings a ludicrous diversion from North's real problems
By Wayne Carey
April 25, 2019 — 3.17pm

For any team that's underperforming, it doesn't take long for the unrest to grow and the rumour mill to hit overdrive. In the past week, North Melbourne have been a case in point.

There have been question marks about everything from the coach and his methods to the chairman's commute from Sydney, while past directors have also piped up. There have even been rumblings of an offer for John Longmire to return to coach the club he once played at. Given Longmire's record at at the Swans - he has taken them to the finals every year - that is a ludicrious proposition.

The players at North need to take responsibility for their record.CREDIT:AAP
But you know what all that actually means when it comes to the Kangaroos recent performances?
Absolutely nothing. It's just noise.
Advertisement

Still, with Brad Scott in his 10th season at North, which equals Denis Pagan's tenure, it's reasonable to ask: is there a use-by date on a coach's message?
My view is that the players need to take responsibility. Let's not forget this is a club that was predicted to finish in the bottom four last year, but then almost played finals. Funnily enough, that often gets forgotten when discussing Scott.

While many thought he over overachieved last year, this year his critics have been circling. So in the opening five weeks, how have the Roos managed to lose what they've stood for? Did they think it was just going to happen with the players that were recruited? None of them were superstars, but the likes of Jared Polec, Jasper Pittard, Aaron Hall and Dom Tyson should have at least added some depth. Clearly, the problem is mental, not physical.
There have been concerns right across the ground, but for me it's the forward line that's looked most dysfunctional this season. I've touched on the flaws in Ben Brown's game, but he has players around him who should complement his many strengths. Right now, he needs more support.

The skipper, Jack Ziebell, is a player I've always admired. When he's at his best, he has the ability to lead his team in the way Joel Selwood does at Geelong and Trent Cotchin has at Richmond. Unfortunately, it's just not often enough.

Ziebell's role has obviously evolved in the past few years, going from a mid-forward to spending almost all of his time forward. He's got a great attack on the footy and is a great mark for his size.

North skipper Jack Ziebell needs to show Selwood- and Cotchin-type leadership more often.CREDIT:AAP

This year, though, the dynamic has changed. With Jarrad Waite retiring, Ziebell is often taking the opposition's second-best or even best defender. Last week it was Michael Hurley who held him to just six disposals. We've all had bad games, but if he's faced with that type of situation again, Ziebell has to play smarter.

As captain, he should have enough licence to inject himself into the contest if he's struggling. As good as Ziebell is one-on-one, he couldn't expect to beat a key-position player such as Hurley too often, so he needed to stop engaging him. Instead he should look to take players like Hurley out of their comfort zone. Use your running power to get up the ground and around the footy and then push back inside 50 to be front and centre.

The Bombers would clearly prefer Hurley closer to goal, rather than chasing Ziebell into the middle. That being said, structurally Ziebell's almost been asked to play as a taller target because the Kangaroos simply aren't getting enough out of Mason Wood. He's a player who could prove key to their turnaround. Not only can he take the heat off Ziebell, but also Brown.

He's had his excuses because of a lack continuity, but given he spent some time in the VFL to start the season, it seems there's also more at play. Wood has the natural ability to be a very good footballer, but how long can you live off potential? He's now 25 and must take the next step, otherwise he's in danger of finishing his career as a talent unfulfilled.

For him, it's about workrate and care with the footy. He had a few chances to get the Roos on the board last week, and in future must take them. The good thing for Wood, and indeed the entire North team, is that they get another chance to show the footy world what they're made of under the Friday night lights. This is an opportunity to change the conversation.

No longer should the coach have to make excuses for his players, as Scott did when he said he might have made a mistake by throwing in all his recruits at once. Talk of teams taking time to gel is one of the bigger myths in footy. While some players aren't rocket scientists, most are intelligent enough to adapt.

North should look no further than Port Adelaide in seeing what's possible when everyone buys into a plan, no matter how different it is. Port had only a week to train the way they wanted to play against West Coast. Now it's the Roos' turn to show just how much can change in seven days

 

[archereleven]

So Buckley, Dilena, Scott's and JZ got together and played a couple of games of euchre and called it a crisis meeting.

It's about what I expect of the club these days...

If we keep dishing up shit on field, I hope we have the intestinal fortitude to move the football department on in one fell swoop at years end.



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[LETSGOKANGAS]

100%, but unfortunately it's not the view that is shared by too many people in the west...

David Irving.

 

[Friday Night Lights]

Disagree Duck. Frustrating article that basically asks the players to solve all the problems Brad can’t with his awful gameplan.

The coach is essentially another hurdle they’ll have to overcome to win this game.

 

[tales129]

Just on the whole new players and "not gelling" thing that was mentioned earlier in the thread.

Could it be personality rather than just understanding the game styles?

Hall and McMillan had a fair verbal stoush at one stage on GF. Then later at the same end, Polec slotted a goal and received exactly zero pats on the back, head rubs and high fives between slotting the goal and running back to the wing.

I wonder if everything's just a little bit funky at the moment.

I’d be telling Macmillan where to **** to go as well if I had to have him as a leader at my footy club

 

[archereleven]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...om-north-s-real-problems-20190425-p51h7y.html


Coach rumblings a ludicrous diversion from North's real problems
By Wayne Carey
April 25, 2019 — 3.17pm

For any team that's underperforming, it doesn't take long for the unrest to grow and the rumour mill to hit overdrive. In the past week, North Melbourne have been a case in point.

There have been question marks about everything from the coach and his methods to the chairman's commute from Sydney, while past directors have also piped up. There have even been rumblings of an offer for John Longmire to return to coach the club he once played at. Given Longmire's record at at the Swans - he has taken them to the finals every year - that is a ludicrious proposition.

The players at North need to take responsibility for their record.CREDIT:AAP
But you know what all that actually means when it comes to the Kangaroos recent performances?
Absolutely nothing. It's just noise.
Advertisement

Still, with Brad Scott in his 10th season at North, which equals Denis Pagan's tenure, it's reasonable to ask: is there a use-by date on a coach's message?
My view is that the players need to take responsibility. Let's not forget this is a club that was predicted to finish in the bottom four last year, but then almost played finals. Funnily enough, that often gets forgotten when discussing Scott.

While many thought he over overachieved last year, this year his critics have been circling. So in the opening five weeks, how have the Roos managed to lose what they've stood for? Did they think it was just going to happen with the players that were recruited? None of them were superstars, but the likes of Jared Polec, Jasper Pittard, Aaron Hall and Dom Tyson should have at least added some depth. Clearly, the problem is mental, not physical.
There have been concerns right across the ground, but for me it's the forward line that's looked most dysfunctional this season. I've touched on the flaws in Ben Brown's game, but he has players around him who should complement his many strengths. Right now, he needs more support.

The skipper, Jack Ziebell, is a player I've always admired. When he's at his best, he has the ability to lead his team in the way Joel Selwood does at Geelong and Trent Cotchin has at Richmond. Unfortunately, it's just not often enough.

Ziebell's role has obviously evolved in the past few years, going from a mid-forward to spending almost all of his time forward. He's got a great attack on the footy and is a great mark for his size.

North skipper Jack Ziebell needs to show Selwood- and Cotchin-type leadership more often.CREDIT:AAP

This year, though, the dynamic has changed. With Jarrad Waite retiring, Ziebell is often taking the opposition's second-best or even best defender. Last week it was Michael Hurley who held him to just six disposals. We've all had bad games, but if he's faced with that type of situation again, Ziebell has to play smarter.

As captain, he should have enough licence to inject himself into the contest if he's struggling. As good as Ziebell is one-on-one, he couldn't expect to beat a key-position player such as Hurley too often, so he needed to stop engaging him. Instead he should look to take players like Hurley out of their comfort zone. Use your running power to get up the ground and around the footy and then push back inside 50 to be front and centre.

The Bombers would clearly prefer Hurley closer to goal, rather than chasing Ziebell into the middle. That being said, structurally Ziebell's almost been asked to play as a taller target because the Kangaroos simply aren't getting enough out of Mason Wood. He's a player who could prove key to their turnaround. Not only can he take the heat off Ziebell, but also Brown.

He's had his excuses because of a lack continuity, but given he spent some time in the VFL to start the season, it seems there's also more at play. Wood has the natural ability to be a very good footballer, but how long can you live off potential? He's now 25 and must take the next step, otherwise he's in danger of finishing his career as a talent unfulfilled.

For him, it's about workrate and care with the footy. He had a few chances to get the Roos on the board last week, and in future must take them. The good thing for Wood, and indeed the entire North team, is that they get another chance to show the footy world what they're made of under the Friday night lights. This is an opportunity to change the conversation.

No longer should the coach have to make excuses for his players, as Scott did when he said he might have made a mistake by throwing in all his recruits at once. Talk of teams taking time to gel is one of the bigger myths in footy. While some players aren't rocket scientists, most are intelligent enough to adapt.

North should look no further than Port Adelaide in seeing what's possible when everyone buys into a plan, no matter how different it is. Port had only a week to train the way they wanted to play against West Coast. Now it's the Roos' turn to show just how much can change in seven days

I don't agree with Duck.

It's easy to call out the players but we are a decade in with Bard with 2 top 8 finishes, 20ish/60 the last 3 seasons and are no where near it this season after a major rule change, which he sat in on!

Win or GTFO.

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[Themanbun]

Getting pretty fed up with past players throwing the current crop of players under the bus because they're too weak to say what everyone's thinking: Scott's time with North Melbourne is drawing to a close.

Yep, absolutely we have players underperforming. To suggest that structures, stoppage setups, etc. are the players' fault is ludicrous. Brad himself conceded that the centre bounce is where we are beyond pathetic - Cunnington, Anderson and Higgins didn't turn into a weak midfield mix overnight. It's their positioning at the bounce/contest that's killing us. Positioning at the AFL level is almost always coached.

 

[Mordecai]

7 day break.
changed the forward line.
doubled down on effort.
all eyes fairly and squarely watching us on friday night.

if we don't respond with ferocious football tomorrow then that's the nail in the coffin. I might put something on us to get up tomorrow. Our backs are against the wall.

 

[ferball]

Disagree Duck. Frustrating article that basically asks the players to solve all the problems Brad can’t with his awful gameplan.

The coach is essentially another hurdle they’ll have to overcome to win this game.

There is only one game plan and every team uses it.