No NRL Expansion as NRL sign new TV deal

[juss]

Perth is high risk high return. League will never be bigger than footy in WA, and if Perth NRL club is scheduled anywhere near a West Coast game no one will give a shit.

That being said, WA get behind their teams strongly, whether its footy or cricket or basketball. I think league would be happy to play second fiddle over there, if the state embraces the game, that's the risk.

Even Storm take a back seat to AFL, although many do keep an eye on them.

 

[Kwality]

Perth is high risk high return. League will never be bigger than footy in WA, and if Perth NRL club is scheduled anywhere near a West Coast game no one will give a shit.

That being said, WA get behind their teams strongly, whether its footy or cricket or basketball. I think league would be happy to play second fiddle over there, if the state embraces the game, that's the risk.

Even Storm take a back seat to AFL, although many do keep an eye on them.

A strategy based on the Storm should grab a niche in the market, what the initial base crowd might be is one for the local proponents of the game.

 

[Heardy_101]

Thing is though, the Storm do pretty darn well, despite past issues, considering they're in a AFL dominated city with 9 teams. Sydney Swans do bloody fantastic for League dominated city with 9-10 NRL teams. Even GWS are picking up a decent following. Based on this alone I think a Perth team would go pretty well. It would be even better if it were a new team from scratch or a reincarnated Reds, but we know given recent articles they might have to settle for Cronulla or Wests.

 

[Kwality]

Thing is though, the Storm do pretty darn well, despite past issues, considering they're in a AFL dominated city with 9 teams. Sydney Swans do bloody fantastic for League dominated city with 9-10 NRL teams. Even GWS are picking up a decent following. Based on this alone I think a Perth team would go pretty well. It would be even better if it were a new team from scratch or a reincarnated Reds, but we know given recent articles they might have to settle for Cronulla or Wests.

Cronulla are in the money, no chance for relocation.
https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/s...t/news-story/694632c063bf99fc780de8a30b02c119

 

[Aucklander]

The Storm itself has been an outstanding success. I can only think the constant stream of negatives is to undermine that, both here and in other places.

As I've said before, chuck in the funding AFL has received in NSW and QLD and the game would be a lot stronger at the grass roots level than it is now.

 

[Greenstar5]

I reckon one of the easiest ways to expand the game is with a good fixture and I believe with club footy the NRL isn't helping it here.

International games have improve, take a look at this year's fixture, it's looking great, with tests including the Lions, PNG and Pac Islands.

Origin is being taken to Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide.

Club footy isn't helping the fans, the games start to late on Thursdays and the same clubs get the prime spots.

Let's talk about this 2nd Brisbane team. I can understand why we want one, but it's a few years off. So let's use what we already have, the Titans. SEQ is pretty much an urban area of 3.5 mil. There is your 2 teams.

Round 1 the Titans play at home in the Sunday night game? Why can't we just have the 2pm and then 4pm games every Sunday? They then travel for rounds 2, 3 & 4, including a Sunday night game against the Bunnies followed by a Friday night game In Auckland. That's tough.

Round 4 has NO NRL game in SEQ. Why?

Round 5 they get a home game. But it is the 6pm Friday and the night before the Broncos play at Suncorp. How are they meant to grow as a club with this crap?

We are in 4 rounds and it's the same teams playing on the Channel 9 games. Broncos, Roosters, Dogs, Saints.

We don't see the Knights, who have a really exciting team until round 7. People are happy to watch footy. They want good match ups. Yes Broncos do draw a good TV crowd, but the NRL have to be stronger than giving into 9 all the bloody time.

Titans till round 9. Who on paper at the start of the year had a good team.

Too many Sydney teams, well bloody make them take games to other states, NZ or regional areas. Why don't we have a game in every capital city? Every state, every major centre in NZ, major regional centre of NSW & Qld?

Pretty simple way to start growing and expanding the games. Good fixturing, healthy starting times, games In non traditional areas, good TV and media coverage.

 

[Milang_Panthers]

Yeah did notice some weird quirks in the fixture with teams playing 2-3 away games in a row. I know Perth has origin this year but there's no regular season games which you would have thought would have more interest than a season when we dont have origin coming here. Heck, you could have had the roosters playing in Perth (for a few games at least) while they are homeless and I'm sure they wouldve got more than the 9k they got at the SCG last night.

 

[raptalia]

We are on shaky ground when comparing the Melbourne and Sydney markets to those of smaller cities like Perth and Adelaide. Cities with a population of 4.5M plus have a much stronger chance of success than cities with populations under 2M. Crowd support was never a problem for the Adelaide Rams the problem was facilities, sponsorship and exposure. The media in Adelaide were all over the AFL and the NRL received middling coverage as a result good players were not interested in relocating away from the limelight of Sydney and Brisbane.

I think the NRL had it's fingers burnt from previous attempts at expansion and as a result it has it's current strategy right. Unlike the AFL, the NRL it has not rushed into expansion for expansions sake and when things have not worked they have pulled the pin. The AFL finds it self in a situation where it is forced to financially underwrite two clubs who are simply not attracting support in non traditional Aussie Rules states.

At present Adelaide has an NRL game once a year at Adelaide Oval and that attracts 25-30,000 people, which is quite good by NRL standards. In 2020 Adelaide will host a State of Origin game and predictions are for a sellout. I think that is about where things should remain although I wish the NRL would programme a couple of different sides each year in Adelaide so that all fans got the chance to see their side play. Watching the Storm v Chooks each year is hard to take. I have to say I am surpirsed that the NRL has left it at Storm V Roosters in 2019 given the respective positions of the two sides. This is a round 15 likely top of the table clash and would atrtract a big crowd in Sydney or at AAMI. If they had played maybe Broncos v Bunnies at Adelaide they would still have a crowd and have saved their blockbuster for Sydney or Melbourne.

I cannot speak for Perth and other cities but if Adelaide is to ever host an NRL team again it will have to have a purpose built rectangular stadium that can be used for World Cup and A League matches as well as NRL games. Adelaide Oval is a brilliant venue for Aussie Rules and Cricket but it loses a bit when players are buried in an expanse of green. The FFA has been engaged in talks with the SA Government to build a FIFA compliant rectangular stadium on the old railway yards which are not far from the rail link, the Adelaide Oval and the CBD. If that happens regular NRL games in Adelaide becomes more of a reality.

 

[RedV3x]

A strategy based on the Storm should grab a niche in the market, .

The Storm strategy? It took a very long time for the Storm to get in the black with cries for it to be sold off.
You only have to look at expansion AFL teams to realise just how much depends on premiership position for attendance.

what the initial base crowd might be is one for the local proponents of the game.

There are several inputs that we could use and debate but it is more a question of what the minimum operating costs will be.
Running costs preclude rl being played at Perth Stadium so it would obviously be at the unattractive rectangular ground.
Both the Reds and the Force started very well but it is the long term average that must looked at.
Both the crowds for Reds and the Force trailed off. That's the Perth dynamic. Even the Glory trailed off as well.
Economic conditions in Perth are at their lowest ebb a.t.m. and that doesn't auger well for rl expansion.
The rl expats brought by the boom have long disappeared or their kids have been converted to AFL.
Decent sponsorship would be very difficult to get a.t.m..
It all depends on how much the NRL is prepared to invest in WA for what gain?
It depends also on whether you are using the new team model or relocation.

 

[RedV3x]

As I've said before, chuck in the funding AFL has received in NSW and QLD and the game would be a lot stronger at the grass roots level than it is now.

Yes, in most people's eyes the AFL has chucked a lot of money into NSW and Qld. I prefer the term underwritten.
It's a matter of accounting. The Sydney Swans only received 1/12 share of the TV earnings by playing on Sunday.
Both Gold Coast AFC and GWS were underwritten by the enlarged media deal.
The NRL cannot simply follow the AFL's lead. It simply doesn't have the revenue, sponsorships, attendances or interest etc.
The NRL cannot simply follow the AFL's lead because there were well established football leagues in it's expansion targets.
To develop new teams is an extremely expensive exercise relocated teams not-so-much.
Whatever the decision on expansion, to do expansion properly you have to invest heavily
and you have to set the groundwork out years in advance.

 

[Aucklander]

Yes, in most people's eyes the AFL has chucked a lot of money into NSW and Qld. I prefer the term underwritten.
It's a matter of accounting. The Sydney Swans only received 1/12 share of the TV earnings by playing on Sunday.
Both Gold Coast AFC and GWS were underwritten by the enlarged media deal.

I'm not sure you're here for serious discussion given your history, but I'm prepared to give you the BOD for now.

The AFL have done a great job with expansion into NSW and QLD. Every indicator shows fantastic growth. I applaud them. On the downside has been the GC on the field, but even that doesn't seem to have hurt the game. GWS otoh are a great side to watch and play exciting footy.

This is where my admiration for the Storm comes in. They've done it all pretty much on their own to now become one of the most popular clubs in the NRL. Over 23k in memberships and one of the best attendances in the comp. Growth is slow at the bottom level entirely due to a lack of support from the NRL and 9 who are allegedly the home of RL.

The NRL cannot simply follow the AFL's lead. It simply doesn't have the revenue, sponsorships, attendances or interest etc.
The NRL cannot simply follow the AFL's lead because there were well established football leagues in it's expansion targets.
To develop new teams is an extremely expensive exercise relocated teams not-so-much.
Whatever the decision on expansion, to do expansion properly you have to invest heavily
and you have to set the groundwork out years in advance.

Perth already have a S G Ball side, so there's clearly some ground work being done. If anything the Storm have shown you don't need a lot of groundwork to be successful.

I'm not convinced they even want to expand and if they do I think only guaranteed spot will be in Brisbane.

 

[RedV3x]

I'm not sure you're here for serious discussion given your history.

My history is that i take everything seriously especially when people make ridiculous claims.

On the downside has been the GC on the field.

Onfield success is an important part of the equation as it affects all other factors.

This is where my admiration for the Storm comes in.

They've found a niche now with on-field success.

Perth already have a S G Ball side,

If that floats your boat.

If anything the Storm have shown you don't need a lot of groundwork to be successful.

If you say so.

I'm not convinced they even want to expand

People seem to mention it often enough.

 

[Aucklander]

The Storm strategy? It took a very long time for the Storm to get in the black with cries for it to be sold off.

This is simply not true. The Storm were owned by News ltd. who guaranteed their funding. They came under the most pressure after the salary cap scandal, but even then News guaranteed funding.

 

[Aucklander]

My history is that i take everything seriously especially when people make ridiculous claims.

Onfield success is an important part of the equation as it affects all other factors.

They've found a niche now with on-field success.

If that floats your boat.

If you say so.

People seem to mention it often enough.

As I suspected. Maybe it's best you stick to what you really care about.

 

[Kwality]

As I suspected. Maybe it's best you stick to what you really care about.

Hasnt there been talk of less clubs:
https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/andrew-johns-floats-radical-plan-to-reduce-number-of-nrl-clubs/a140122b-d9b6-4de1-9cb6-efae12c09a3a
'there's not enough talent going around, there's too many teams in Sydney, nine teams in Sydney is too many'

Shame the AFL dont give it some thought, same problems.

 

[robbieando]

Hasnt there been talk of less clubs:
https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/andrew-johns-floats-radical-plan-to-reduce-number-of-nrl-clubs/a140122b-d9b6-4de1-9cb6-efae12c09a3a
'there's not enough talent going around, there's too many teams in Sydney, nine teams in Sydney is too many'

Shame the AFL dont give it some thought, same problems.

NRL wants to stay at 16 clubs and look to expand their footprint. Talk of 12 clubs is not going to happen, the above article is fantasy.

Shame this thread isn't about the AFL however. So no point bringing them up.

People can stick to the topic of NRL expansion going forward.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

The NRL cannot simply follow the AFL's lead. It simply doesn't have the revenue, sponsorships, attendances or interest etc.

This is closer to the truth than any so-called mistakes in AFL expansion the NRL want to avoid. The AFL Commission starting decades ago means the big decisions aren't driven by whatever club bosses what (i.e. their share of the loot and everything else is secondary). That's a pretty recent shift in rugby league. Brisbane 2 would've been implemented years ago and even now that probably won't happen as the Broncos just don't want it to.

 

[Kwality]

NRL wants to stay at 16 clubs and look to expand their footprint. Talk of 12 clubs is not going to happen, the above article is fantasy.

Shame this thread isn't about the AFL however. So no point bringing them up.

People can stick to the topic of NRL expansion going forward.

Yep, those who favour quantity over quality, not me, thanks anyway.

 

[RedV3x]

NRL wants to stay at 16 clubs and look to expand their footprint.

IMO the NRL need to seriously consider the exact direction that they want to take.
1. More teams at a "boutique" level.
2. Less teams stepping up to be "power" clubs.
3. The suburban model.
4. The big stadium model.
5. The Australian model.
6. The Pacific model.
7. The 16 team shuffle.
8. The 16 team status quo model.
9. The television model.
10. The membership model.
The NSWRL did the right thing in consolidating the 'heartlands" into the NRL.
The NRL did the right thing in broaching New Zealand.
IMO the NRL will stick with 16 teams and attempt a bit of everything because that is their style.

Talk of 12 clubs is not going to happen, the above article is fantasy.

And I thought it was from Andrew Johns.

 

[robbieando]

IMO the NRL need to seriously consider the exact direction that they want to take.
1. More teams at a "boutique" level.
2. Less teams stepping up to be "power" clubs.
3. The suburban model.
4. The big stadium model.
5. The Australian model.
6. The Pacific model.
7. The 16 team shuffle.
8. The 16 team status quo model.
9. The television model.
10. The membership model.
The NSWRL did the right thing in consolidating the 'heartlands" into the NRL.
The NRL did the right thing in broaching New Zealand.
IMO the NRL will stick with 16 teams and attempt a bit of everything because that is their style.

The NRL will move to play out of 4 stadiums in Sydney once the stadium rebuilds are completed as part of the contract for the works that requires a set amount amount of games to be played at SFS/Stadium Australia/Parramatta Stadium. Maybe a club or two down the road will be moved to either Perth and/or Brisbane, but nothing past that. They will of course stick with 16 teams.

And I thought it was from Andrew Johns.

Just a media commentator, his opinion doesn't equal the opinion of the ARL Commission. Would be like Leigh Matthews calling for 14 teams in the AFL. Would hold no weight.