Autopsy Roast & toast vs Suns & changes for West Coast round 8

[SunshineBoy]

You sure mate? To some in here he is the next best thing since sliced bread! Can do no wrong

I just call as I saw it

 

[SunshineBoy]

Without trying to sound too melodramatic, when i think of Cotch I think of that line by Russell Crowe in Gladiator. "What we do in life echoes in Eternity". Cotch plays 300 and we all simply have to be there to honour a Richmond immortal.

I agree, send him out properly

 

[Punt rd end]

On top of our mistakes the maggots contribute their own soul-destroying decisions, did anyone see the suns player kicking from outside the boundary? umpire just infront of me couldn't miss it. 4 umps haven't improved the game

I was here

 

[fargothegreat]

So at the end of last year the afl increased the soft cap by 500k

AFL boosts soft cap, coaches hail 'step in the right direction'

All 18 clubs will have a total increase of $750,000 in their football department soft cap over the next two years

www.afl.com.au

Off the top of my head we lose burge , kingsley and will thursfield

we bring in lambert , rutten and some guy to replace thursfield in recruiting

Now i know the soft cap includes the whole football department so there would be departures and arrivals we dont hear about so it is hard to judge how we are spending the money , but on face value i wonder if we couldn't have done better in bringing in assistant coach(s) and/or fitness/conditioning staff.

If we weren't in a position to add any more people to our fd makes one question the wisdom of going the ol short term fix..


Speaking of assistant coaches , could someone confirm if Dsavid Teague is now working in the midfield and Xavier Clarke is our forward line coach?

Clarke has always been the forwards coach. Teague is the ball movement coach

 

[fargothegreat]

When did Ben Miller ever arrive. I’ve watched so much of him at VFL and this is literally him. I don’t get it. He is literally the most unskilled player on an AFL list.

His skills aren't the problem. His issue is that he doesn't attack the ball in the air. He's aerially soft (if that's a thing).

 

[shaky]

How bads the kicking for goal , Fmd cumbo s 2 shots weren’t even close , closer to out on the full ,,,just *ing dreadful and you call yourself pro footballers , and what was soldo thinking , he was 30 *ing meters out and passed to a bloke in the pocket ,,,fml

Well the other questions is what was Taranto doing leading there?
Bad lead and a guy lacking goal kicking confidence was always going to look for another option

 

[Punt rd end]

Well the other questions is what was Taranto doing leading there?
Bad lead and a guy lacking goal kicking confidence was always going to look for another option

The lead was there, the kick was too slow. Happened 10 metres from where i was sitting and it was on

 

[Area51]

On top of our mistakes the maggots contribute their own soul-destroying decisions, did anyone see the suns player kicking from outside the boundary? umpire just infront of me couldn't miss it. 4 umps haven't improved the game

I was here

Not paying the deliberate rushed behind when the suns player punched it through and there was no Richmond player within 20m was worse. Just straight up corruption by all four maggots.

 

[TigerMoz1973]

I emphatically rejected a suggestion we’d finish bottom 4 , I owe that person an apology , of course we will , In fact the only wins I see our way are the likes of hawks and wc trying to throw the game to secure Harley Reid , we are garbage. So many clapped out players that are totally spent and look every bit like bottom 4 senior footballers , it wouldn’t be the silliest idea to retire off 4 of them so we could trial a few for 6 months at MSD

Hawthorn will beat us. They're much better now

 

[copthat]

How good your list is changes so much. 2016 our list looks s**t. Suddenly 2017 it looks elite. Same kind of thing with the Saints this year, they looked like they had no young talent and suddenly you view their list in such a more positive light after a few wins.

Don't know what's going on. Maybe it's a very rough transition period of talent and learning a new game plan.

Agree with this bit, especially now with how the game is setup. IMO your list is only in poor shape if you’ve either stripped it back (Hawks/North) or you have zero KPP OR ruck talent. Your midfield can change in the blink of an eye with a couple of mature bodies. We had a disgusting midfield in 2016, added Prestia and Nank and that same midfield took us to 3 flags. It’s also far easier to add to/change your list these days with free agency, trading future picks, salary dumping/contract breaking in general, the mid-season draft (where we found a premiership player) and I’m sure mid-season trading is around the corner. If you’re deficient in an area it can be addressed in one off season rather than having to draft someone and wait 5 years, trade a good player or not do the trade at all due to lack of assets.

The players haven’t suddenly forgotten how to play, which isn’t to say we aren’t playing poorly, and I’m certainly a bit perplexed as to what’s going on. But things can change quickly these days.

 

[aislegi]

I'm glad we aren't winning the flag this year - that would really paper over the cracks.

Mate, we’re well and truly out of paper!

 

[wegetpumped]

Just when you thought things were bad just barrack for the TIGERS LEEDS and live in a town where the only pub just shut down lol

 

[IceT]

Interesting comment by Hardwick that things can change pretty quickly, we could start winning again in a few weeks.

Yes and no.

Adelaide is proof that when you get sh*t list playing cohesively as a well drilled team, yes things can turn around quickly on field and suddenly you look like a good team with a good list.

This is the third year in a row Richmond is finding a way to lose games they shouldn't lose, and the trajectory is heading in the wrong direction. The players are looking less cohesive as time progresses, and completely unsuited to the whatever game plan they're being asked to execute.

So no, things will not change for the better at Richmond with the current coaching/player development setup.

I think Hardwick is waiting for the switch to flick like in 2016, which is code for clueless about what to do other than wait for the return of injured players, which still won't fix the problem.

 

[Ctl]

Just put the order in boys and girls, should be there Wednesday

 

[Noidnadroj]

It’s not out God given right to make finals every year. 10 teams miss out and looks like we will be one of them in 2023. GC had 1 player with less than 25-games today. We had 6. GC had only Miller (and maybe Budarick) out of their best-22. I wasn’t shocked we lost. I was disappointed we played like busteds, but not shocked given the trouble GC have given us over the years.

All this panic about the Hopper draft pick etc.. is just crazy. Will Phillips went pick-3 and he can’t get a game for North. [PLAYERCARD]Tarryn Thomas[/PLAYERCARD] was about 8. Dow went 3. Mac Andrew went 5. Draft picks guarantee you nothing. Trading them gave us TT and Hopper which we were absolutely desperate for. Not just for 2023, but for 2023-2029 and maybe beyond.

Carlton haven’t made finals for a decade with top draft picks coming out of their proverbials. GC have had a stack of them as well as some concession picks and will spend their 14th season without finals. Roos have had top draft picks for 5-years and just lost by nearly 100-points.

All the talk here makes me think TT and Hopper skip 6 birthdays each and turn 31 and 32yo in 2024. It’s just panicked lunacy.

Don’t you recall Port were 0-5 start of last year? Now 5-2. Karen Cornes 18-months ago said Adelaide’s team was the worst they’d ever fielded in their 30-years. They are an ounce of luck away from being 5-2. What did you honestly think of the Saints going into 2023? Be honest …. they sit 5-2.

There seems to be panic that if we can’t contend in 2023 we are screwed because a few more all-timers retire.

But why on earth are we not capable of re-grouping in 2024 as so many teams before us have done? Is the core of this team somehow not capable of ever playing good football..?

Martin
Vlastuin
Nankervis
Lynch
D. Rioli
Balta
Gibcus
Baker
Ryan
Graham
Broad
Taranto
Hopper
Bolton
Cumberland

Then there’s a bunch of really raw kids still finding their feet … which takes more than 25-games for most. And a few oldies (Grimes, Pickett, Prestia) who may recapture their best, but I’ve left them out.

So who in the list above is not capable of playing quality football in 2024?

You see, every year 6-teams finish in the bottom-6, 6 teams finish in the middle, and 6-teams finish in the top-6.

You might be surprised to know that sometimes a bottom-6 team who look like a bunch of duds one season make top-6 the next. And vice versa. And teams in the middle-6 jump up to top-6, and others down to bottom-6.

The basic logic of this is that nobody ever expects a bottom-6 team to make top-6 the following year, because they were crud the year prior. And nobody expects a top-6 team to be bottom-6 the following season, because they were really good the season just gone. See how this works?

So we all think because we are looking crap this year, all is lost for 2024-29…… despite having a core group still capable of playing very good football and still young enough where their best footy is ahead of them.

In 2022 the bottom-6 were : Hawks, Crows, Essendon, GWS, Eagles, North.

How many of those teams are looking better than Tigers and Freo who finished 5th and 7th? I’d say at least 3 of them. Who predicted that before a ball was bounced to start the season? Nobody.

If we panicked in 2016 like Lloydy (Tigers need a rebuild) or Karen Cornes (Tigers crazy giving up 6 for Prestia) wanted us to do, imagine what would have happened?

So why panic now, regardless of what 2023 brings? And don’t say ‘yeah, but we had better players in 2016’. Because we only learned that in hindsight - before 2017 Grimes and Astbury were always injured, Nank, Prestia, Caddy weren’t there, Broad was a spud, Vlastuin was still developing (remember the Vlas midfield experiment?), Baker wasn’t playing, Bolton wasn’t there, Balta wasn’t there, McIntosh was a real struggler … and so on….

Anyway… I know Dimma and the coaches won’t be panicking line BF nuffies like all of us are.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Truetiger]

Positive, I had to work hence didn’t make it to Marvel Stadium.

 

[Daka]

I hate to ask this but do we even beat West Coast?
I could see this game being a confidence boost for some of our players.

I tipped us already v Eagles but the way we are playing... I'm worried surely we don't lose to the Eagles? surely@!

 

[Dunger]

I hate to ask this but do we even beat West Coast?
I could see this game being a confidence boost for some of our players.

I tipped us already v Eagles but the way we are playing... I'm worried surely we don't lose to the Eagles? surely@!

Next week is a cripple fight

 

[Yappie dribbles]

So at the end of last year the afl increased the soft cap by 500k

AFL boosts soft cap, coaches hail 'step in the right direction'

All 18 clubs will have a total increase of $750,000 in their football department soft cap over the next two years

www.afl.com.au

Off the top of my head we lose burge , kingsley and will thursfield

we bring in lambert , rutten and some guy to replace thursfield in recruiting

Now i know the soft cap includes the whole football department so there would be departures and arrivals we dont hear about so it is hard to judge how we are spending the money , but on face value i wonder if we couldn't have done better in bringing in assistant coach(s) and/or fitness/conditioning staff.

If we weren't in a position to add any more people to our fd makes one question the wisdom of going the ol short term fix..


Speaking of assistant coaches , could someone confirm if Dsavid Teague is now working in the midfield and Xavier Clarke is our forward line coach?

Teague has NEVER been forwards coach Clarke has been since 2020

Teague role has always been offensive coach in charge of ball movement going forward

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

It’s good in some ways I feel younger!
Back to having a giggle reading all the tantrums and having plenty of room at the footy whilst the bandwagoners drop off

 

[Triggering Tiger]

Sadly if Soldo doesn't have that brain fart and has a shot at goal, if he kicks it we're a chance of winning still with the momentum we had/would of had.

He's not the only one that's had one at the same ground, remember aarts did the same thing last year against lolnorf and cumbo against Failnantle?

 

[banzai]

Sadly if Soldo doesn't have that brain fart and has a shot at goal, if he kicks it we're a chance of winning still with the momentum we had/would of had.

Everyone in the stadium knew he wasn't kicking that goal. The problem is he was never going to hit a 15m pass either so you may as well just take the shot.

 

[banzai]

The selection for this game really pisses me off. Because for the first time in a long time we looked good last week. We matched it with the premiership favourites everywhere apart from the ruck which was always gonna happen.

So Dimma decides to completely change it up this week. Why would you play a 4th tall defender + Vlastuin? Broad coming back in for Young seemed a simple move and an upgrade. Now if you want to play the younger player fine, Then make a tough call and play Broad or Vlastuin in the VFL. Dimma never does this, cant wait til Gibcus is back and we go to 6 tall defenders again.....

Then there is the Soldo decision. Pretty straight forward if he is fit to run out a whole game, fine he comes in for Miller, pretty simple decision and an upgrade. If they were worried he couldnt run out the game, play him in the VFL and go with last weeks setup. Don't play 3 ruckmen then get absolutely abused in the ruck anyway!!

Then there is dropping Mansell. I dont rate him, but we play him every week, only to drop him the week we lose our only other small forward in MRJ. WTF. We also drop Judson as well so go with a completely different forward setup than the one that looked ok last week. I didn't mind trying Baker as a small forward again, it didnt really work though.

Im not a fan of Ross, but didnt hate him coming in for Prestia as a like for like swap. However its pretty clear Ross will never complement Hopper and Taranto in the middle as its way too slow, so once we signed those 2 he's done unfortunetly.

Next week I would bring in Hugo, Mansell and MRJ if he's fit. Yeah they turn it over, but so do our slower players. Atleast playing with speed and run will get a high scoring game and be entertaining. The only times we looked like a competent AFL team today was when Bolton got the ball in the middle of the ground.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

One thing I do find funny is you look back at the whinging about somebody like Castagna.
You only have to look at the profile of yesterdays team and trying to play the old system to see just how valuable he actually was.
The big eye opener for me was trying to go long with no Lynch and without your George types, Young Maurice, obviously back when we had all that forward half pressure it was a great way to play.

Last week I thought Dimma showed smarts with the way we entered F50 against the Demons and I think even he’d acknowledge it was a big stuff up reverting back to those long bombs in again yesterday. It was a real sign of stubbornness I thought when Balta went to FF which was also a dead give away of our intent.

I’m actually fascinated now to see how it plays out from here because he’s at a crossroad, and he’s been there before. The worry of course is it’s an in season crossroad with very like minded assistants and not an off season one with new fresh ideas such as pre 2017.
Still Dimma then showed he was humble enough to swallow the pride, loosen the grip and take in new systems however that was a coach in desperate waters trying to save a career not a content triple premiership coach.
Yeah whilst we will have to put up being shit that’s just footy and it happens it’s going to be interesting to see the next few months and will largely determine whether we are long term screwed or short term.
What I’m really hoping for is a new way of playing. I could easily put up with losing every game if we tried something different and stuck to it, than win ten games playing the old way which is predictable now and not the team for it.
It’s actually a really interesting point for the club right here now as we sit at that intersection.
What you doing Dimma? Speeding across carelessly or chilling and turning the indicator on?

 

[austyn08]

Well the other questions is what was Taranto doing leading there?
Bad lead and a guy lacking goal kicking confidence was always going to look for another option

Yep, big example of a leader not doing a team thing and settling the big fella.