News Goodwin Sacked - has taken his big book of LEARNINGS to Sydney

[Scythe]

Can I start a #SackGuerra thread yet?

 

[Dancing Potato]

Change is coming at Melbourne but Simon Goodwin’s job is safe — for now​

There is a mood for change at Melbourne after five losses in a row. Just how far will that extend? Jon Ralph breaks it down here.

Melbourne’s incoming chief executive Paul Guerra has told coach Simon Goodwin in recent meetings he will back the premiership coach for next season ahead of his own September 8 start date.

But Melbourne faces massive decisions on its football department and list profile ahead of a critical month for Goodwin to shore up support across the club given another five-match losing streak.

Melbourne has 13 players about to be 30 years or older by round 1 next season but none of the recent successes of Collingwood, which shares a similar list profile.

Goodwin looks on track to record another bottom six finish given the club’s mid-forward connection issues and diabolical kicking for goal.

The Demons have played improved football in recent weeks highlighted by a fighting loss to Adelaide but are at 5-10 and in 14th position on the ladder.

Guerra finishes up at the Victorian Chamber of Commerce and Industry in the first week of September, while the club’s 2025 president Steve Smith arrives back from a European holiday in early August.

Guerra and current president Brad Green have had regular phone discussions and coffee meetings as they plot a course for improved performances.

The club will quickly have to decide whether to double down on Goodwin with one more crack at finals with the existing list or pivot with a list overhaul that prioritises youth.

In Guerra’s public statements and personal discussions with Goodwin he has said the 2021 premiership coach will see out his contract to 2026.

He is contracted on a deal that would require a full million dollar payout if he was sacked.

But there is a mood for change across the board at Melbourne that could extend to the coach if the winless streak continues through the home-and-away season.

The club had believed it had stabilised its position with five wins in six weeks in the middle of the season but Goodwin must cash in with four winnable games against North Melbourne (17th), Carlton, St Kilda (15th) and West Coast (18th).

The Demons believe the decision to trade out a 2025 first-rounder for Xavier Lindsay has already been justified by his silky form as last year’s No. 11 pick.

But as it becomes apparent the Demons do not have a list capable of winning a flag major change is afoot as Melbourne considers how to regenerate its list.

The Demons have a strong senior core, an elite list of young draftees then a gap of quality players between 24-28 apart from 24-year-old Kysaiah Pickett.

His retention on a fresh seven-year extension to 2034 will give the club a bigger risk appetite to consider trades for experienced players.

The club’s next flag window would appear to lie with the youngsters but even then Caleb Windsor and Jacob Van Rooyen have regularly played VFL and the club’s No. 15 draft pick Matthew Jefferson has battled for AFL impact.

The club’s players who will be 30 or older next year are Jake Melksham, Max Gawn, Tom Campbell, May, Viney, Lever, Tom McDonald, Shane McAdam, Christian Salem, Jack Billings, Petracca, Ed Langdon and Marty Hore.

McDonald, Hore, Campbell and Billings are uncontracted.

Melbourne believes Christian Petracca is content at the club and will not shop him around, with the Norm Smith Medallist privately and publicly stating that his future is at Melbourne.

But rivals might ask the question of Petracca given he has the most trade currency at the Demons.

And the club is likely to be open to exploring options for Clayton Oliver, contracted to 2030 on a deal that at one stage hits $1.7m.

It would require him to take a pay cut and the Demons to pay a vast chunk of his salary the next five seasons so a deal would be problematic.

Whether the Demons could secure quality picks for any of its other plus 30s is an open question with Jake Lever, Jack Viney, Bayley Fritsch and Steven May all stalwarts but with some trade currency.

 

[Demon13304]

Thats it, change everyone under him apart from the same idiot who has been responsible for a 4th straight year of failure.

Not just 4th straight year of failure, 4th straight year of linear regression/going backwards each year.

There's no sugar coating that. Even if we win 5 of the next 7 which will keep his job, it's still objectively a worse season than last year

 

[Topkent]

Not just 4th straight year of failure, 4th straight year of linear regression/going backwards each year.

There's no sugar coating that. Even if we win 5 of the next 7 which will keep his job, it's still objectively a worse season than last year

Coached for 9 years, won a final in 2 of those season despite taking over a list that had all the hard work done by Roos. That COVID flag has hidden how atrocious he's been as a coach

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Not just 4th straight year of failure, 4th straight year of linear regression/going backwards each year.

There's no sugar coating that. Even if we win 5 of the next 7 which will keep his job, it's still objectively a worse season than last year

Its not even the regression that pisses me off. Its trotting out basically the same shit for 4 years straight and wondering why the opposition has flown by us. Sticking to your core beliefs is why we are in this mess you *******. Good coaches dont have core beliefs, they set new trends.

 

[Topkent]

Its not even the regression that pisses me off. Its trotting about basically the same shit for 4 years straight and wondering why the opposition has flown by us. Sticking to your core beliefs is why we are in this mess you *******. Good coaches dont have core beliefs, they set new trends.

Even Ross Lyon has his team trying to attack through the corridor. It's not working but the saints are the most aggressive ball movement team in the comp I think.

 

[schmuttt]

I guess the one positive is if we do shit the bed in the next month he might actually be sacked?

 

[schmuttt]

Its not even the regression that pisses me off. Its trotting out basically the same shit for 4 years straight and wondering why the opposition has flown by us. Sticking to your core beliefs is why we are in this mess you *******. Good coaches dont have core beliefs, they set new trends.

Yep. If he'd embraced a mini rebuild after 2023 and genuinely changed how we play I would have been fine with a dip in results. Instead he is being dragged there kicking and screaming because he can't ignore how much the senior players are falling off.

 

[schmuttt]

Like ffs we are MFC fans we are fine with losing as long as we can see what you're trying to build.

 

[schmuttt]

I remember saying last year if he actually properly embraced the rebuild he would have effectively made himself secure for probably three more years.

 

[Lord Nev]

Mate of mine who is well connected in VFL circles went to a Hawthorn coterie event recently where they had a Q&A session with Sam Mitchell. Someone asked him specifically about game styles and Melbourne and his comments were (paraphrasing) that you can't try to chase game styles in the AFL. It's all a cycle, and if you've built your team a certain way then you're better off planning for the next cycle ahead of the trending one for when it comes around again.

So in Melbourne's case, the best option would be not to go away from contest and defence, but to tweak around the edges so that when the game reacts to the current attacking style in a few years you're one of the teams at the front of the curve rather than chasing another new style.

Was interesting, because it's not what I had thought, and perhaps highlights the lack of real leadership and direction within our coaching setup from the top down. We've been all over the place with chasing new game styles then reverting then chasing again... Bit of a perfect storm for us with Oliver, Trac, Neal Bullen all impacting our list, none of the moneyball types paying off, Bartlett, Smith etc etc. But if we'd had actual strong leadership (including Goody in that) then maybe we would have been much better placed by now. Indecisiveness and stubbornness are the biggest factors at the Dees IMO.

 

[booshboy]

The footballing gods sometime in 2021:

 

[I Love Lamb]

Mate of mine who is well connected in VFL circles went to a Hawthorn coterie event recently where they had a Q&A session with Sam Mitchell. Someone asked him specifically about game styles and Melbourne and his comments were (paraphrasing) that you can't try to chase game styles in the AFL. It's all a cycle, and if you've built your team a certain way then you're better off planning for the next cycle ahead of the trending one for when it comes around again.

So in Melbourne's case, the best option would be not to go away from contest and defence, but to tweak around the edges so that when the game reacts to the current attacking style in a few years you're one of the teams at the front of the curve rather than chasing another new style.

Was interesting, because it's not what I had thought, and perhaps highlights the lack of real leadership and direction within our coaching setup from the top down. We've been all over the place with chasing new game styles then reverting then chasing again... Bit of a perfect storm for us with Oliver, Trac, Neal Bullen all impacting our list, none of the moneyball types paying off, Bartlett, Smith etc etc. But if we'd had actual strong leadership (including Goody in that) then maybe we would have been much better placed by now. Indecisiveness and stubbornness are the biggest factors at the Dees IMO.

Quickest way to kill our club is to keep contest and defence as our brand indefinitely waiting for each cycle to come round.

Would rather miss a cycle and just play aggressive attacking style and wait for it to eventually come round. At least we will still have some members and attendances that way.

 

[netslave]

The footballing gods sometime in 2025:

 

[Lord Nev]

Quickest way to kill our club is to keep contest and defence as our brand indefinitely waiting for each cycle to come round.

Would rather miss a cycle and just play aggressive attacking style and wait for it to eventually come round. At least we will still have some members and attendances that way.

You kinda missed the whole point. Not surprising.

 

[danster168]

Mate of mine who is well connected in VFL circles went to a Hawthorn coterie event recently where they had a Q&A session with Sam Mitchell. Someone asked him specifically about game styles and Melbourne and his comments were (paraphrasing) that you can't try to chase game styles in the AFL. It's all a cycle, and if you've built your team a certain way then you're better off planning for the next cycle ahead of the trending one for when it comes around again.

So in Melbourne's case, the best option would be not to go away from contest and defence, but to tweak around the edges so that when the game reacts to the current attacking style in a few years you're one of the teams at the front of the curve rather than chasing another new style.

Was interesting, because it's not what I had thought, and perhaps highlights the lack of real leadership and direction within our coaching setup from the top down. We've been all over the place with chasing new game styles then reverting then chasing again... Bit of a perfect storm for us with Oliver, Trac, Neal Bullen all impacting our list, none of the moneyball types paying off, Bartlett, Smith etc etc. But if we'd had actual strong leadership (including Goody in that) then maybe we would have been much better placed by now. Indecisiveness and stubbornness are the biggest factors at the Dees IMO.

what would Sam Mitchell know? Has we won a flag or done anything?

 

[Daemon]

what would Sam Mitchell know? Has we won a flag or done anything?

He played in a pretty successful era for his club. Wasn't he also assistant coach at WC when they won a flag? He might know a thing or two about tactics and a winning culture.

 

[Lord Nev]

He played in a pretty successful era for his club. Wasn't he also assistant coach at WC when they won a flag? He might know a thing or two about tactics and a winning culture.

4x Premiership Winner.
Premiership Captain.
5x BnF winner.
Brownlow.
Multiple AAs.
AFL Hall Of Fame.
Assistant when Eagles won the flag in 2018.
So far, has taken the Hawks from 13th to 7th to likely top 4 since 2022.

Yeah, I reckon he'd have a fair clue about footy.

 

[new to this]

What are peoples thoughts on who to bring in around Goodwin if he does survive? I actually wouldn’t mind Hird he seems to be up with the game pretty well. I love Jones for what he give the club as a player but I’m not sure he’s the right man for the job it seemed a odd decision IMO, was all about the love talk and mending relationships preseason last year.

 

[Daemon]

What are peoples thoughts on who to bring in around Goodwin if he does survive? I actually wouldn’t mind Hird he seems to be up with the game pretty well. I love Jones for what he give the club as a player but I’m not sure he’s the right man for the job it seemed a odd decision IMO, was all about the love talk and mending relationships preseason last year.

Nope, just nope on Hird. Don't see how any new assistants will make any difference. He's gone through a few already and it hasn't helped at all. The fish rots from the head.

 

[Lord Nev]

What are peoples thoughts on who to bring in around Goodwin if he does survive? I actually wouldn’t mind Hird he seems to be up with the game pretty well. I love Jones for what he give the club as a player but I’m not sure he’s the right man for the job it seemed a odd decision IMO, was all about the love talk and mending relationships preseason last year.

Semi-realistically...

Richo out for David Noble.
Radford out for someone like Ben Brown or Matthew Lloyd as full time forward craft/development coach.
Choco probably retire and that's where maybe Hird could be tempted?

Jones is contracted I'm fairly sure, so doubt he'll go anywhere.

 

[omit]

What are peoples thoughts on who to bring in around Goodwin if he does survive? I actually wouldn’t mind Hird he seems to be up with the game pretty well. I love Jones for what he give the club as a player but I’m not sure he’s the right man for the job it seemed a odd decision IMO, was all about the love talk and mending relationships preseason last year.

Jeff White has been posting a lot of tactical breakdowns on social media. He seems to have a very good understanding of structures and game plans. I wouldn't mind giving him a run as an assistant coach. He would be able to wear multiple hats helping out with midfield and rucks/stoppages

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Nope, just nope on Hird. Don't see how any new assistants will make any difference. He's gone through a few already and it hasn't helped at all. The fish rots from the head.

Im nowhere near against Hird as others. But you're absolutely right, wouldn't make any difference whatsoever who it is with bozo still in charge.

Not to mention, again like last offseason, who the **** would want to come here with the coach on the hot seat? You'll likely be out of a job after 2026 and hurt future job prospects.

 

[danster168]

4x Premiership Winner.
Premiership Captain.
5x BnF winner.
Brownlow.
Multiple AAs.
AFL Hall Of Fame.
Assistant when Eagles won the flag in 2018.
So far, has taken the Hawks from 13th to 7th to likely top 4 since 2022.

Yeah, I reckon he'd have a fair clue about footy.

lol, playing accolades doesn't equal coaching accolades. how did James Hird go? How about Vossy. I'll wait.

 

[danster168]

He played in a pretty successful era for his club. Wasn't he also assistant coach at WC when they won a flag? He might know a thing or two about tactics and a winning culture.

and Hirdy and Vossy?