Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[CarnTheScray]

So Katter and Babet have to go I guess, if antisemitism is as virulent as is being suggested we can't have guys who knock around with neo Nazis sitting in Parliament.

We already have one person in this thread that is against antisemitism but likes Candace Owen’s. There will be a few more that are “against racism and antisemitism” but will follow Hanson, Katter, Babet on Twitter.

 

[ElectricG]

Sydney nurse fired over video with Israeli influencer has charge dropped

Sarah Abu Lebdeh appeared in a video chat with an Israeli content creator that allegedly included threats to Israeli patients.

www.abc.net.au

Ridiculous this isn’t wrapped up

 

[Festerz]

I just think Frydenberg is one of the few politicians that can claim his is a personal one based on race rather than politics.

Except he didn't. Partisan politics was at the very heart of his rant in front of the baying crowd and cameras.

Him wearing a yarmulke while doing it changes nothing of the fact he was playing divisive politics with very little regard for the truth. Shame on him.

 

[kalex6251]

So Katter and Babet have to go I guess, if antisemitism is as virulent as is being suggested we can't have guys who knock around with neo Nazis sitting in Parliament.

wonder if those photos of pauline hanson partying with a rabid neo-nazi back in the day will resurface?

 

[Sphynx]

You may have a point but much of Segal's report is widely considered a ludicrous joke. If Albanese's critics are going to build their strategy around the "failure" to implement that document, they will fall flat on their faces.

I agree with you!

But it was the governments own appointed envoy!

They deemed antisemitism such a serious issue to appoint the person in the first place. If they deemed the report a ludicrous joke, why didn’t they rectify the matter for something they deemed so serious in the first place?

Imagine the government appoints a Special Envoy into Family Violence because it says the issue is serious and rising.

That envoy is vetted, appointed, and endorsed by the government, consults widely, and delivers a report with recommendations.

Then, after a major violent incident, the government response is: “The recommendations were ludicrous, biased, and impractical.”

But they don’t sack the envoy,

They don’t appoint a replacement,

They don’t commission a new inquiry,

Then they don’t propose alternative reforms.


Meanwhile, family violence statistics continue to rise.

At that point, the question isn’t about whether you like every recommendation, it’s whether the government actually takes the issue seriously at all.

Because if the envoy was unfit, why appoint her?

If the issue is critical, why ignore the work entirely?

How do you imagine then a high profile leader and former politician as a former victim of family violence (Frydenberg in this analogy) would then be expect to react?

 

[Gough]

wonder if those photos of pauline hanson partying with a rabid neo-nazi back in the day will resurface?

Didn't Dutton have a mate who was a bit keen on the 39-45 away team as well?

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Dishing dirt on the victims of this is wild lol what are you weirdos doing

Its what the left do. They dig as deep as possible to find anything to discredit people they dislike. If that fails they start with blatant lies (see the AI circulating)

 

[Festerz]

The article itself has been posted here previously. But it's Mark Kenny's preface to it that adds the context needed.

Slowly, individual pieces of journalistic integrity and analytical depth of reasoning are seeping through the morass of partisan political tripe that has dominated press coverage of the weekend's events.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

It's a great article and raises several of the points I made in a post in this thread yesterday about the timeline of key events and intelligence failures relating specifically to the radicalisation of the terrorists and the inconvenient truth that they all happened under Coalition governments.

But the best comment is this:

'By Wednesday, the National Party took it further and started to develop a version of the argument that guns don’t kill people, people do, so the exclusive focus must be on stamping out antisemitism.'

'How wonderful it would be to eradicate this ancient hatred: it would be one of the greatest achievements since the establishment of the first societies. Is it possible in an ever more interconnected world of digital disruption and disinformation campaigns in which antisemitic nations can orchestrate acts of destruction and worse in other countries? What we know already is that our major political parties are extremely unlikely to work together to achieve it.'

A dose of much needed common sense and historical accuracy from Shaun Carney that has been missing in most of the media coverage of events following the massacre. Instead of intelligent analysis much of our media has resorted to doing what it almost always does in times of crisis - picking a side and playing political cheerleaders. It is very much a key part of the problem that is tearing at the fabric of our society and makes our communities less safe.


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."

-John F. Kennedy

I think another good point to those that say blood is on Albanese’s hands is the article mentioning how ASIO found the attacks on Melb synagogue and Sydney cafe being the work of Iran Revolutionary Guard hiring local criminals. Govt acted and kicked Iran ambassador out of the country.

And as bother poster pointed out the Bondi perpetrators entered country, got gun licence and had ASIO investigation dismissed under Coalition govts.

Frydenberg quite rightly should have spoken on his grief but once he and Howard said it was blood on Albo’s hands it they disgraced them selves by politicising these tragic deaths. Disgraceful and now the Nationals even talking about watering down gun laws

 

[Sphynx]

Slowly, individual pieces of journalistic integrity and analytical depth of reasoning are seeping through the morass of partisan political tripe that has dominated press coverage of the weekend's events.

So how does the Jewish community bring their concerns to the public?

They simply don’t, after they were mass murdered? For being Jewish?

 

[ElectricG]

So how does the Jewish community bring their concerns to the public?

They simply don’t, after they were mass murdered? For being Jewish?

It’s basically the same thing as in the US when gun control advocates get told to pipe down after a school is shot up because they’re being inappropriate. Having their point proved again and again but it’s never the right time to talk about it.

 

[Del203211]

adogsfan?

Howard has gone too far. His comments about Albanese tear us apart

Slagging off the man entrusted with trying to steer the nation through this powerfully difficult moment will not help John Howard’s side of politics.

www.theage.com.au

It’s a fantastic article and is spot on.

But the funniest thing about this, is that you bemoan about right wing media on this forum on a daily basis.. then post an article from THE AGE, and tagged me, to try and make a point against someone who has never agreed with Howard in the first place, had a crack at him the day before and has defended Albanese on this thread multiple times.

All the meanwhile still screaming about political point scoring, whilst using the deaths of 16 innocent people to hop back on this forum, to do the exact same thing.

I honestly don’t know if I should laugh or cry at the sheer hypocrisy at this point

 

[Sphynx]

I think another good point to those that say blood is on Albanese’s hands is the article mentioning how ASIO found the attacks on Melb synagogue and Sydney cafe being the work of Iran Revolutionary Guard boring local criminals. Govt acted and kicked Iran ambassador out of the country.

And as bother poster pointed out the Bondi perpetrators entered country, got gun licence and had ASIO investigation dismissed under Coalition govts.

Frydenberg quite rightly should have spoken on his grief but once he and Howard said it was blood on Albo’s hands it they disgraced them selves by politicising these tragic deaths. Disgraceful and now the Nationals even talking about watering down gun laws

How exactly do the nationals propose to do that?

They are state laws and last I looked they don’t hold the balance of power, nor the voting block in just about any state in the country.

They would have to change every state individually.

It’s why they were able to be changed in the first place because they are a minority faction.

It’s about as realistic as Pauline saying she is going to ban the burqa in public I.e not even worth the oxygen.

 

[Sphynx]

It’s a fantastic article and is spot on.

But the funniest thing about this, is that you bemoan about right wing media on this forum on a daily basis.. then post an article from THE AGE, and tagged me, to try and make a point against someone who has never agreed with Howard and had a crack at him the day before.

All the meanwhile still screaming about political point scoring, whilst using the deaths of 16 innocent people to hop back on this exact forum, to do the exact same thing.

I honestly don’t know if I should laugh or cry and the sheer hypocrisy at this point

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I agree with you!

But it was the governments own appointed envoy!

They deemed antisemitism such a serious issue to appoint the person in the first place. If they deemed the report a ludicrous joke, why didn’t they rectify the matter for something they deemed so serious in the first place?

Imagine the government appoints a Special Envoy into Family Violence because it says the issue is serious and rising.

That envoy is vetted, appointed, and endorsed by the government, consults widely, and delivers a report with recommendations.

Then, after a major violent incident, the government response is: “The recommendations were ludicrous, biased, and impractical.”

But they don’t sack the envoy,

They don’t appoint a replacement,

They don’t commission a new inquiry,

Then they don’t propose alternative reforms.


Meanwhile, family violence statistics continue to rise.

At that point, the question isn’t about whether you like every recommendation, it’s whether the government actually takes the issue seriously at all.

Because if the envoy was unfit, why appoint her?

If the issue is critical, why ignore the work entirely?

How do you imagine then a high profile leader and former politician as a former victim of family violence (Frydenberg in this analogy) would then be expect to react?

I agree the government has handled the whole Segal thing appalling right along the way.

But it's not as if they have ignored antisemitism. I think they are quietly doing the right things and handling a potential powder keg sensitively.

The caravan of explosives was a case in point. People jumping up and down making the wildest inferences, and meanwhile the AFP were professionally and methodically doing their job, and after exhaustive investigations revealed it was nothing but common criminals trying to engineer favourable treatment from the cops under the smokescreen of inflamed Israel/Gaza feelings.

When that finding was announced, a mea culpa editorial in the Murdoch press (who had been leading the charge, of course) reminding us all of the dangers of leaping to conclusions, would have done the world of good and helped ease the tension we see now. But if such a thing appeared, I was not aware of it.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

How exactly do the nationals propose to do that?

They are state laws and last I looked they don’t hold the balance of power, nor the voting block in just about any state in the country.

They would have to change every state individually.

It’s why they were able to be changed in the first place because they are a minority faction.

It’s about as realistic as Pauline saying she is going to ban the burqa in public I.e not even worth the oxygen.

Well actually Littleproud didn’t say watering down current gun laws he just said current gun laws are fine and that’s not the issue like Ley had said. More focused on Albo and thus another example of politicising

 

[Gavin Excell]

I agree with you!

But it was the governments own appointed envoy!

They deemed antisemitism such a serious issue to appoint the person in the first place. If they deemed the report a ludicrous joke, why didn’t they rectify the matter for something they deemed so serious in the first place?

Imagine the government appoints a Special Envoy into Family Violence because it says the issue is serious and rising.

That envoy is vetted, appointed, and endorsed by the government, consults widely, and delivers a report with recommendations.

Then, after a major violent incident, the government response is: “The recommendations were ludicrous, biased, and impractical.”

But they don’t sack the envoy,

They don’t appoint a replacement,

They don’t commission a new inquiry,

Then they don’t propose alternative reforms.


Meanwhile, family violence statistics continue to rise.

At that point, the question isn’t about whether you like every recommendation, it’s whether the government actually takes the issue seriously at all.

Because if the envoy was unfit, why appoint her?

If the issue is critical, why ignore the work entirely?

How do you imagine then a high profile leader and former politician as a former victim of family violence (Frydenberg in this analogy) would then be expect to react?

Just on this - has the Albanese government formally responded to the Envoys report?

 

[Saint]

You know how I know for sure it's all politically driven. Is that Chris Minns is sitting in all these audiences and nobody is saying a bad word about him.

But 90% of the problems people are complaining about are state-based issues. Most of the Anti-semitism envoy's report would have to be implemented at the state level (it talks about all levels of Govt).

But since the opposition in NSW decided not to go after the NSW Govt, so have all the opportunists and grifters. It'll all Albanese's fault apparently.

Gun Laws- Minns
Anti-semitism laws - Minns
Graffiti and other similar crimes - Minns
Crimes against person or property - Minns.

What's Albanese responsible for? Immigration and intelligence.

It's gone political way too quickly. It's very sad to see really. I'll forgive Frydenberg more than Ley or Hanson because Frydenberg is angry and upset and talking around a funeral.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

So how does the Jewish community bring their concerns to the public?

They simply don’t, after they were mass murdered? For being Jewish?

What in that Julianne Schultz article leads you to conclude Jewish people are being silenced? The article was about the egregious Pauline Hanson and Barnaby Joyce.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I’m sure if there had been 2-3 years of examples of rising warnings of mass gun violence and Howard had raised a special envoy into gun ownership and public safety in 1995 and received a report which recommended tightening of gun laws as a way of prevention and didn’t act on virtually all of it..

Kim Beazley may have had a slightly different reaction.

I agree now is not a time for a political fight.

I just think Frydenberg is one of the few politicians that can claim his is a personal one based on race rather than politics.

I think his statement was made as an Australian Jewish man.

Everyone focusing on one sentence and the instant dismissal of the rest of what he said is pretty evident in here. Which is wild considering the events of this week. It’s like it already didn’t happen.

THe reason I place limitations on interpreting from his personal experience is that I recall during the 80s when howard was "anti multiculturalism" and there was a strong "asians out" movement I still remember feeling hurt by that and my memory discounts the positive things that others did around this time to break down those attitudes.
Memory and opinion are highly influenced by emotion
Therefore it would be a mistake to ascribe any value to Frydenburg more than (what you did end up saying) an Australian Jewish man; not a leader of a political movement or a spokesman for anyone but himself

 

[Festerz]

 

[Sphynx]

What in that Julianne Schultz article leads you to conclude Jewish people are being silenced? The article was about the egregious Pauline Hanson and Barnaby Joyce.

I know it was about Pauline and Barnaby?

How do you know they have been contacted by members within their own party for action?

It usually occurs.

Take personal bias out of it regarding those two for a single second.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I agree with you!

But it was the governments own appointed envoy!

They deemed antisemitism such a serious issue to appoint the person in the first place. If they deemed the report a ludicrous joke, why didn’t they rectify the matter for something they deemed so serious in the first place?

Imagine the government appoints a Special Envoy into Family Violence because it says the issue is serious and rising.

That envoy is vetted, appointed, and endorsed by the government, consults widely, and delivers a report with recommendations.

Then, after a major violent incident, the government response is: “The recommendations were ludicrous, biased, and impractical.”

But they don’t sack the envoy,

They don’t appoint a replacement,

They don’t commission a new inquiry,

Then they don’t propose alternative reforms.


Meanwhile, family violence statistics continue to rise.

At that point, the question isn’t about whether you like every recommendation, it’s whether the government actually takes the issue seriously at all.

Because if the envoy was unfit, why appoint her?

If the issue is critical, why ignore the work entirely?

How do you imagine then a high profile leader and former politician as a former victim of family violence (Frydenberg in this analogy) would then be expect to react?

You missed the part after "report with recommendations" where "Family Violence survivors and groups like Orange Door criticise the report" and "this makes implementation too complex and it takes time to work out what to keep, what not to keep, what needs more study". Oh and the special envoy is found to be partnered up with a "mens rights activist"

 

[Saint]

Just on this - has the Albanese government formally responded to the Envoys report?

No, and it's probably lucky they hadn't because "this is all stupid nonsense" would have to be explained again.

Then again, if he'd explained it before the terrorism, it might not sound as bad when he explains it again now.

But. If there's any signature of this Government, it's that it will do nothing until it is dragged kicking and screaming to do something. The opposite of leadership.

That's how the Envoy came about, lots of kicking and screaming from the media and opposition.
It's how tax changes came about, kicking and screaming from poor people.

This Government is behaving in a very reactionary way, similar to a Coalition Govt, really.

Since the Voice, they haven't gone on the front foot with one of their own policies. They just sit around waiting for the house to burn down before ordering a fire truck.

 

[Gough]

Barely a word about rampant homophobia and racism during the Marriage Equality and Voice debate from the same people who've now decided words matter.