Do Collingwood need to enter a rebuild phase?

[Petrify]

Haven't read the thread just title. Imo they should probably cut most of the old dudes after this year assuming they don't win a flag. Then go hard after another young star to play alongside Naicos for the next 10 years. Being Collingwood + having Naicos means they should be able to middle for a little bit while attracting good players from other clubs before rising again.

 

[Robroy22]

Compromised draft goes for two years. But the answer is why would anyone be happy losing one of the best players in the AFL

We've lived with compromised drafts for years Adam....but St Kilda hasn't had (or lost) a gun like NWM on the verge of their re-birth before...now have they?

 

[Mynamesinuse]

We've lived with compromised drafts for years Adam....but St Kilda hasn't had (or lost) a gun like NWM on the verge of their re-birth before...now have they?

Collingwood hasnt had to rebuild through one
With Huge holes in a list.

 

[Robroy22]

Not had to rebuild through one.
Huge holes in a list.

Not had to rebuild through compromised drafts???? Are you kidding??
Where were you when the Swans came in? Then the Bears? The WA and SA sides didn't get as many favours as the first two but we still rebuilt (just like everybody else...St Kilda included). Then when the Giants came in it was woe betide us all....they'll get everything and win everything, then the Suns....crikey they even got GAJ....but still sides kept rebuilding and regenerating and remaining relevant (even the Saints)....

Yes Tassie will take the cream of the young crop.....so what? Our last two premiership sides have had blokes in em that were overlooked in multiple drafts (one even captained the side against your Saints in the 2010 Granny).....somehow (yep even against YOURS and plenty of other wannabee naysayers sage proclamations....somehow we'll survive. And history shows, we don't just survive....we contend. The blokes who starred in 2010 aren't there anymore (except 2 in name only) and the ones who starred in '23 have been out of the team for much of '25....so you see, we have had to keep rebuilding the side.

You don't see it because you don't want to see it, but Murphy has to retire due to concussion so a journeyman called Frampton slots in and away we go again. Bobby Hill is out for half a season, they run Schultz, Hayes, Sullivan and Hoskin Elliot through that spot. Howe misses 2 months, they go to Parker or Perryman. Checkers got rested as we tried to ease his workload and Membrey or West slots in. Still don't wanna see it though do ya?

Adam, you and others want to lay claim that Pendles, Sidey and Howe are our most pivotal players and maybe once upon a time they were (in 2010 for the first two and 19-23 for Howey) but we've played so many games without them (Howe in particular) and they've been relegated to lesser roles within the team for 2-3 years now. Yes Pendles still makes play and Sidey can still do wonderful things but in the scheme of our game plan they are 2nd tier mids now. Jordy would be handy but again we're sorta used to him only playing half the home and away games (he comes good for finals like Crosswell used to for Barassi). Pendles will probably play off half back in '26 (unless we're playing Carlton cos he always tags Cripps) and Sidey is as much a midfield tagger these days as well, his wing has been taken by young Roan Steele who we picked up midyear. Howe will probably partner Moore and Maynard as the elder statesman down back, but his flying days have been curtailed by his recent injuries (2 ACL's and a busted arm). His ability is in reading play and intercepting, but its really only a restrictive role that he plays anymore. His replacements are chomping at the bit to get involved (Parker, Jiath, Cochrane, Ryan) and with so many half backs on the list we even chose to retire Oleg Markov, a much loved player. So you must be able to realise that we've got these three covered (positionally at least) and that you can't keep refusing to acknowledge that our way of rebuilding has so far been successful.

Your attempts to down play the strengths of our club are obvious, but they remind me just a trifle of the English Press core prior to this summer's ASHES. You have all the statistical data that points to our demise (because that data supports your theories) yet you refuse to acknowledge (just as the POMS have) that beating an opposition side isn't about how your team looks on paper, it's about how your team performs when the acids on it. And under McCrae, our team (in all its structures and playing groups) has performed very, very well. I'm sorry to say that those are the simple facts....and until its proved to be otherwise, then your continued harping on your "theories" about ageing and falling off cliffs and holes in lists...well they just sound like the "moral victories" that the Poms have been claiming despite being beaten and embarrassed. Sour grapes.

 

[doppleganger]

Yet he’s one of the best finals players we’ve ever seen.

He is one of the best mid-forward finals players of all time

Nothing to do with whether Collingwood need a rebuild.

Surely the Tiger tragics can spam a different thread with all their boring mid-forward PlayARaTinGs drivel.

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Not had to rebuild through compromised drafts???? Are you kidding??
Where were you when the Swans came in? Then the Bears? The WA and SA sides didn't get as many favours as the first two but we still rebuilt (just like everybody else...St Kilda included). Then when the Giants came in it was woe betide us all....they'll get everything and win everything, then the Suns....crikey they even got GAJ....but still sides kept rebuilding and regenerating and remaining relevant (even the Saints)....

Yes Tassie will take the cream of the young crop.....so what? Our last two premiership sides have had blokes in em that were overlooked in multiple drafts (one even captained the side against your Saints in the 2010 Granny).....somehow (yep even against YOURS and plenty of other wannabee naysayers sage proclamations....somehow we'll survive. And history shows, we don't just survive....we contend. The blokes who starred in 2010 aren't there anymore (except 2 in name only) and the ones who starred in '23 have been out of the team for much of '25....so you see, we have had to keep rebuilding the side.

You don't see it because you don't want to see it, but Murphy has to retire due to concussion so a journeyman called Frampton slots in and away we go again. Bobby Hill is out for half a season, they run Schultz, Hayes, Sullivan and Hoskin Elliot through that spot. Howe misses 2 months, they go to Parker or Perryman. Checkers got rested as we tried to ease his workload and Membrey or West slots in. Still don't wanna see it though do ya?

Adam, you and others want to lay claim that Pendles, Sidey and Howe are our most pivotal players and maybe once upon a time they were (in 2010 for the first two and 19-23 for Howey) but we've played so many games without them (Howe in particular) and they've been relegated to lesser roles within the team for 2-3 years now. Yes Pendles still makes play and Sidey can still do wonderful things but in the scheme of our game plan they are 2nd tier mids now. Jordy would be handy but again we're sorta used to him only playing half the home and away games (he comes good for finals like Crosswell used to for Barassi). Pendles will probably play off half back in '26 (unless we're playing Carlton cos he always tags Cripps) and Sidey is as much a midfield tagger these days as well, his wing has been taken by young Roan Steele who we picked up midyear. Howe will probably partner Moore and Maynard as the elder statesman down back, but his flying days have been curtailed by his recent injuries (2 ACL's and a busted arm). His ability is in reading play and intercepting, but its really only a restrictive role that he plays anymore. His replacements are chomping at the bit to get involved (Parker, Jiath, Cochrane, Ryan) and with so many half backs on the list we even chose to retire Oleg Markov, a much loved player. So you must be able to realise that we've got these three covered (positionally at least) and that you can't keep refusing to acknowledge that our way of rebuilding has so far been successful.

Your attempts to down play the strengths of our club are obvious, but they remind me just a trifle of the English Press core prior to this summer's ASHES. You have all the statistical data that points to our demise (because that data supports your theories) yet you refuse to acknowledge (just as the POMS have) that beating an opposition side isn't about how your team looks on paper, it's about how your team performs when the acids on it. And under McCrae, our team (in all its structures and playing groups) has performed very, very well. I'm sorry to say that those are the simple facts....and until its proved to be otherwise, then your continued harping on your "theories" about ageing and falling off cliffs and holes in lists...well they just sound like the "moral victories" that the Poms have been claiming despite being beaten and embarrassed. Sour grapes.

No data.
Just looking at an aging list that is basically held together by key players with one maybe two seasons left.

 

[doppleganger]

No data.
Just looking at an aging list that is basically held together by key players with one maybe two seasons left.

Subjective

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Subjective

No not really.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I think they are 1 good midfielder short to challenge
Butters from 2027 would change the dynamics significantly

 

[Mynamesinuse]

I think they are 1 good midfielder short to challenge
Butters from 2027 would change the dynamics significantly

Who will play forward?
Elliot will be 35
Hill who knows

 

[Gavin Excell]

Who will play forward?
Elliot will be 35
Hill who knows

Their game plan doesn't seem to rely on star forwards. They won a flag with Mihocek.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Their game plan doesn't seem to rely on star forwards. They won a flag with Mihocek.

Maybe not a star but he was no slouch either good for 40 goals a year and can play like a small and take bigger defenders as well with little fuss

Not the type that come around every day

 

[Gavin Excell]

Maybe not a star but he was no slouch either good for 40 goals a year and can play like a small and take bigger defenders as well with little fuss

Not the type that come around every day

Buller is their hope but may be a bit far away at this stage of his career

 

[Peters_Nuts]

Their game plan doesn't seem to rely on star forwards. They won a flag with Mihocek.

Who was a VFL defender we acquired off the rookie draft, accompanied by an American off the rookie draft. Not to mention Ginnivan (rookie draft), McCreery (pick in the 30s), Hill (who we acquired for sweet FA).

It's almost as if we've been ok at developing the limited high draft picks available to us...

 

[Muddiemoose]

Buller is their hope but may be a bit far away at this stage of his career

No Cox as well, definitely not amazing but structure wise he demanded a decent defender

Granted they still have Membry but he didn’t exactly light the world on fire last season and is getting long on the tooth as well

With Buller thrown in it probably means more will be demanded of the vets to ensure he’s holding structure to at least give them a chance to compete when they wouldn’t of needed to worry with the more experienced guys with them

 

[Peters_Nuts]

Granted they still have Membry but he didn’t exactly light the world on fire last season and is getting long on the tooth as well

I actually thought Membrey was very good as the third tall option last season. Kicked 32.16 which was on par with his output at St.Kilda.

Caveat is that I think he's a great third option and don't want him playing at CHF or FF.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I actually thought Membrey was very good as the third tall option last season. Kicked 32.16 which was on par with his output at St.Kilda.

Caveat is that I think he's a great third option and don't want him playing at CHF or FF.

Surprised by that stat (32)
That's a good return for a secondary tall

Where's McStays career at?

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Who was a VFL defender we acquired off the rookie draft, accompanied by an American off the rookie draft. Not to mention Ginnivan (rookie draft), McCreery (pick in the 30s), Hill (who we acquired for sweet FA).

It's almost as if we've been ok at developing the limited high draft picks available to us...

Yep you can get by with blokes like that and every club is the same if you have a mature list.
It’s a lot harder playing with a team of rookies and speculative picks.

 

[Muddiemoose]

I actually thought Membrey was very good as the third tall option last season. Kicked 32.16 which was on par with his output at St.Kilda.

Caveat is that I think he's a great third option and don't want him playing at CHF or FF.

That actually is a pretty good return, but yeah ideally you don’t want him playing as the main target either

It will be interesting to see how McStay goes and if he can’t really step up this season, along with blooding Buller

Biggest issue for you guys right now is depth across the board imo and injuries will be what will determine if you play finals or not this year

 

[doppleganger]

Their game plan doesn't seem to rely on star forwards. They won a flag with Mihocek.

We also won a flag with Didak as our leading goal kicker. We tend to prefer having multiple options who can kick a couple, instead of a dominant key forward.

For 2026 will be Schultz, Hill, McStay, Membrey and Elliott as senior established options.

Would expect DeGoey, McReery and Daicos to be mids who also hit the scoreboard fairly regularly.

Then it is a younger unproven group from HHarrison, Buller, C.West, Howes and Hayes that we hope push in and demand games! We want a couple of those unproven kids blossom for 2027.

 

[Peters_Nuts]

That actually is a pretty good return, but yeah ideally you don’t want him playing as the main target either

It will be interesting to see how McStay goes and if he can’t really step up this season, along with blooding Buller

Biggest issue for you guys right now is depth across the board imo and injuries will be what will determine if you play finals or not this year

For sure. We can't really go into a season expecting McStay to play up to 20 games given his past 3 seasons.

We're all very bullish on Charlie West, who was equal leader or second in contested marks in the VFL in his first season before his foot injury. Won us a few games off his own boot too.

I think with a combination of Elliott, Schultz, Bobby, McCreery, McStay, Membrey, Buller, Harrison and players like DeGoey rotating through, we should be ok in the short term while West, Hayes, Saxena and McCarthy develop.

 

[Muddiemoose]

For sure. We can't really go into a season expecting McStay to play up to 20 games given his past 3 seasons.

We're all very bullish on Charlie West, who was equal leader or second in contested marks in the VFL in his first season before his foot injury. Won us a few games off his own boot too.

I think with a combination of Elliott, Schultz, Bobby, McCreery, McStay, Membrey, Buller, Harrison and players like DeGoey rotating through, we should be ok in the short term while West, Hayes, Saxena and McCarthy develop.

That’s why I kind of see you guys in a similar predicament to the tigers around 2023

We came off a very close finals loss in 2022 (under a goal at the Gabba) and still what seemed like enough top line best 22 to give it another crack but our depth especially in the forward and back line was sketchy

We lost Lynch for the year and that was essentially it even with Jack we still couldn’t really perform consistently enough down forward and the loss of guys like Lambert and Edwards meant our midfield looked a lot different as well

not dissimilar to you guys this year with that dependable depth not being around (Cox, Mitchell and even Markov) and needed to rely on a lot of young players on field to other retirements

 

[Peters_Nuts]

Surprised by that stat (32)
That's a good return for a secondary tall

Where's McStays career at?

Frustrating to say the least.

Started the year ranked elite for contested marks (was top 10 from memory) and was averaging 2 goals a game. Then does his PCL on Anzac day and when he returns he hurts his shoulder which means we had to play Cox at the pointy end of the season.

When he's fit he's been very good for us. Wouldn't have made the Grand Final without him in 2023. We just don't see enough of him.

 

[doppleganger]

That’s why I kind of see you guys in a similar predicament to the tigers around 2023

We came off a very close finals loss in 2022 (under a goal at the Gabba) and still what seemed like enough top line best 22 to give it another crack but our depth especially in the forward and back line was sketchy
We lost Lynch for the year and that was essentially it even with Jack we still couldn’t really perform consistently enough down forward and the loss of guys like Lambert and Edwards meant our midfield looked a lot different as well

Tigers went from a 13 win team in 2022 (when Lynch won the BnF with 60+ goals, plus Jack kicking 40+) to a 10 win team in 2023, when Lynch was out and Jack was cooked.

Pies don't have same reliance on two key forwards and would expect bigger output from McStay, Schultz and Hill in 2026 compared to 2025...DeGoey a wildcard too.

not dissimilar to you guys this year with that dependable depth not being around (Cox, Mitchell and even Markov) and needed to rely on a lot of young players on field to other retirements

The equivalent Pie to Lynch at the Tigers is D.Cameron, if he goes down we will struggle.

We are used to multiple injuries / unavailability in our forward options, and have plenty of experience even if Elliott (our leading goal kicker in 25) falls over.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Tigers went from a 13 win team in 2022 (when Lynch won the BnF with 60+ goals, plus Jack kicking 40+) to a 10 win team in 2023, when Lynch was out and Jack was cooked.

Pies don't have same reliance on two key forwards and would expect bigger output from McStay, Schultz and Hill in 2026 compared to 2025...DeGoey a wildcard too.

The equivalent Pie to Lynch at the Tigers is D.Cameron, if he goes down we will struggle.

We are used to multiple injuries / unavailability in our forward options, and have plenty of experience even if Elliott (our leading goal kicker in 25) falls over.

Yeah I was necessarily saying your forward line is in the same boat more that this season you don’t have the experience in terms of depth that you have had previously

Instead of the old soldier out soldier in with a player with a decent amount of afl level experience and mature body

All teams cop injuries but it’s how seamless the ability to cover those injuries that make the difference between being a genuine contender or not