Do Collingwood need to enter a rebuild phase?

[Mynamesinuse]

Thankfully unlike other clubs, Collingwood haven't turned their senior AFL team into a development team.

Nothing wrong with having kids develop their game at lower levels like VFL whilst also benefitting from having guys like Pendles and Sidey at training with them.

All the veterans that remain on our list for 2026 deserved their list spot. If bodies starts failing them (Howe almost at that point) or they are no longer contributing enough at AFL level no drama with them being moved on.

The correct answer is that none of the younger players are demanding spots.
Brisbane aren’t a development team but have introduced plenty of youth.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Probably their list is really old, I wonder if they have the all time record oldest list. In that 2025 prelim, they were almost 30 years old average and 4000 games played combined. If they couldn't win another premiership with that, then it's time to put some youth in, or else they risk treading water for years if not decades again.

 

[Fadge]

Probably their list is really old, I wonder if they have the all time record oldest list. In that 2025 prelim, they were almost 30 years old average and 4000 games played combined. If they couldn't win another premiership with that, then it's time to put some youth in, or else they risk treading water for years if not decades again.

'Decades again'?

 

[ShereKhan]

Father son is still in place.

But yes unlike when the Tigers just pre-listed club champions like Richo and Bowden and gave up nothing for them.....Pies used SIX 2nd and 3rd picks on SIX Shaw's/Clokes to only get two 100+ game players.

We had to use pick 18 to get Rhyce Shaw and pick 19 to get Jason Cloke, neither who played 100 games for the Pies....using top20 picks is a fair investment, not really seeing a free hit or "rort" as you claim. What pick should we have had to use on Rhyce or Jason for it to not be a rort...a top 10 pick?

Then we were lucky to get 0 games from Brayden Shaw (pick 32) and 21 from Cameron Cloke (pick 43)...what picks should we used on these two to not enjoy a "rort".

So your entire F/S "rort" era claim from 99-04 is that after paying overs for little return from 4 F/S picks we finally got Travis who was the only really highly rated kid, and the lowest rated Shaw actually came good.

Don’t worry about ‘protesting too much’. Just enjoy the dumb luck you have gotten over a couple of decades. Your current best 3 players including captain are also F/S gifts…. acquired for packets of chips.

If not for that ridiculous good fortune the flag of 2023 doesn’t happen, so celebrate it!

 

[GoldbergsGold]

'Decades again'?

Those decade or so long premiership droughts like from the premiership of 1958 to the next one being 1990, to 1990 to 2010. And a decade and 3 years from 2010 to 2023.

 

[Fadge]

Those decade or so long premiership droughts like from the premiership of 1958 to the next one being 1990, to 1990 to 2010. And a decade and 3 years from 2010 to 2023.

Oh.

So you're one of those binary people who can't understand that if a team is regularly contending for premierships, including losing Grand Finals by less than a kick, they're not 'treading water', they're actually contending for premierships.

Gotcha.

Also, you probably shouldn't include premiership years when referring to 'droughts'.

Quite amazing to think that someone would equate Collingwood to 'treading water during a 12 year premiership DROUGHT from 2011 to 2022', when they played in two Grand Finals over that time, and another three Preliminary Finals...

 

[Cdog71]

Binary?

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Oh.

So you're one of those binary people who can't understand that if a team is regularly contending for premierships, including losing Grand Finals by less than a kick, they're not 'treading water', they're actually contending for premierships.

Gotcha.

Also, you probably shouldn't include premiership years when referring to 'droughts'.

Quite amazing to think that someone would equate Collingwood to 'treading water during a 12 year premiership DROUGHT from 2011 to 2022', when they played in two Grand Finals over that time, and another three Preliminary Finals...

Well, compared to Hawthorn's 1961-2015 seasons, Collingwood only won 2 premierships to their 13, so I'd consider that definitely treading water. No one values runner up teams.

 

[Cdog71]

Interesting point that, might be worthy of a thread.
Is contending just a marketing term?

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Interesting point that, might be worthy of a thread.
Is contending just a marketing term?

Show us some marketing using that term

 

[Cdog71]

Show us some marketing using that term

Nah, needs its own thread

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Nah, needs its own thread

Go on then hit the "new thread" button could be legendary

 

[Cyclops]

Well, compared to Hawthorn's 1961-2015 seasons, Collingwood only won 2 premierships to their 13, so I'd consider that definitely treading water. No one values runner up teams.

Maybe you're a nong, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

If you recall that in 1915 urban zones were introduced, and in 1968 country zones were introduced to force feed good players to poorly run clubs, and that Collingwood was dominant before these unfair measures were forced upon them, you get the picture that some clubs carry the league, and others are gifted flags for incompetence.

As a West Coast supporter you're probably aware the Eagles contribute a huge amount indirectly to revenue by giving "broadcast coverage" across Australia, as well as contributing for most of their history and powerful and well run club: the present slump is surprisingly long and few supporters doubt it will soon end.

Collingwood has played a very direct role in paying for the rest of the league from its inception. We were including from the first for this exact reason. We were well run, raised the standard of play, and brought more supporters to the game than any other club ever.

Despite being a poor club from poor suburb that famously paid its players less than others we generated incredible success, and a high standard of professionalism that improved the whole league, while amateurish joke clubs like Hawthorn and St Kilda demanded flags because "it wasn't fair".

Both finally earned flags, but the League caved to pressure from Carlton to truly skew the league and created Carlton and Hawthorn dynasties (Hawthorn ironically at St Kilda's expense, it was pretty scandalous). The productive country zones were allocated with the intent to rotate them, but the favoured clubs used political clout to keep them unfairly.

Despite the endless rorts designed to pump up badly run clubs the Pies continued to present in finals at the same rate as they had before the rorts started. Essendon and Richmond actually built decent (if shorter lived) dynasties. However the rorts worked as intended, with clubs like Hawthorn and Carlton gifted a huge number of flags by the league. Some people claim North used a rort to snag flags, but thats not right, it was an early version of free agency and they were smart enough to make it work.

So I feel as though your little crack about "runners up" is a load of bollocks. Phar Lap only won one Melbourne Cup because the VRC nobbled him. People cared about the runner up when he was beaten.

West Coast and other non Vic clubs face another rort, the #VICBIAS grand final guarantee. Its completely unfair, and a stain on our league. Don't expect any change soon though, the badly run clubs refuse to hand back their rorts unless the league is faced with collapse, as it was in the 1980s when properly run clubs like Collingwood and Richmond nearly went broke competing with the cheats.

 

[doppleganger]

Don’t worry about ‘protesting too much’.

Take that as an admission that your "rort" claim was absolute drivel.

Just like most of your cherry picked "analysis".

Just enjoy the dumb luck you have gotten over a couple of decades. Your current best 3 players including captain are also F/S gifts…. acquired for packets of chips.

Agree that we did get our BnF - D.Cameron - for a packet of chips, it was a six pick downgrade (giving pick 56 and getting pick 62 back).

Example of smart trading or as you term it "dumb luck".

If not for that ridiculous good fortune the flag of 2023 doesn’t happen, so celebrate it!

Smart trading, correct coach appointment, nailing rookie picks, having strong development and fitness programs all just as important as getting a couple of F/S picks.

If all you needed was luck with F/S, Richmond should have been successful after being gifted Richo and Bowden.

 

[Mr Meow]

Interesting point that, might be worthy of a thread.
Is contending just a marketing term?

"Rebuilding" absolutely is. You can sell hope that way for a decade or more.

 

[bungalow_bill]

"Rebuilding" absolutely is. You can sell hope that way for a decade or more.

Same goes with contending I suppose. It's just the other end of the cycle.

 

[Mr Meow]

Same goes with contending I suppose. It's just the other end of the cycle.

"Rebuilding" is actually telling your supporters to hold steady through years where the club aren't confident or capable of winning many games though. You're selling the hope of one day even playing big finals again.

"Contending" isn't really a marketing term because supporters tend to already have the buy-in. They see good results and it isn't delusional to think they'll be competitive in September.

It's like marketing celery vs icecream. Icecream sells itself.

 

[Cdog71]

"Rebuilding" is actually telling your supporters to hold steady through years where the club aren't confident or capable of winning many games though. You're selling the hope of one day even playing big finals again.

"Contending" isn't really a marketing term because supporters tend to already have the buy-in. They see good results and it isn't delusional to think they'll be competitive in September.

It's like marketing celery vs icecream. Icecream sells itself.

It’s more the idea that contending is success
There is only one winner in sport.
If you think contending is a measure of success, I’m not going to argue the point with you.
It was an idea for a discussion.

 

[Mr Meow]

It’s more the idea that contending is success
There is only one winner in sport.
If you think contending is a measure of success, I’m not going to argue the point with you.
It was an idea for a discussion.

You have to contend to have a chance of success. "Rebuild" still just means "one day you might have a shot at that - expect a lot of losing and dire memories until then - please keep paying membership money". It is the ultimate marketing tool to keep flakey supporters through tough times where a club have accepted they will be crap.

 

[Cdog71]

You have to contend to have a chance of success. "Rebuild" still just means "one day you might have a shot at that - expect a lot of losing and dire memories until then - please keep paying membership money". It is the ultimate marketing tool to keep flakey supporters through tough times where a club have accepted they will be crap.

I never mentioned rebuild

Though if o changed about four words in that post I could drop in the word contending

 

[doppleganger]

Well, compared to Hawthorn's 1961-2015 seasons, Collingwood only won 2 premierships to their 13, so I'd consider that definitely treading water. No one values runner up teams.

Of course the premiership is the ultimate.

But just a nonsense to completely ignore a season where a team qualifies for finals, and wins multiple finals to make the GF.

I think WC of 1991 was obviously much stronger than WC of 2025...do you rate them the same as neither were premiers?

 

[aussierulesrules]

Probably their list is really old, I wonder if they have the all time record oldest list. In that 2025 prelim, they were almost 30 years old average and 4000 games played combined. If they couldn't win another premiership with that, then it's time to put some youth in, or else they risk treading water for years if not decades again.

I’m not sure that’s the best way for them to go, because they need to make it look to the likes of Ben King that they’re still really close to a flag, whereas if they go down the “play the kids” type route, and drop say out of the finals, as a result, and then lose a bunch of gun players to retirement, it’s going to look to the outside world that they’re embarking on a rebuild, and that they won’t be seriously contending again for years (especially since Tassie will be dominating the upcoming drafts, so that would be the worst imaginable time to start a rebuild) and that would very likely turn them off the idea of moving to Collingwood.

And that would be disastrous, as this would be a dreadful time to embark on a rebuild, so I think they’ll be going all-in on being as good as possible this year, attracting a Ben King or two, and staying in contention as a result.

Fly seems all-in on his mantra of “give me players not picks”, so I think that will only change if they take a big dive down the ladder, lose a bunch of players, and don’t attract any big fish to replace them.

It will be fascinating to see how it plays out.

 

[Mr Meow]

I never mentioned rebuild

Though if o changed about four words in that post I could drop in the word contending

I'm giving you a much more accurate version of a marketing strategy. Your attempt to fit it to contending doesn't even make sense. The hopium of having a competitive team *someday" that will fight for premierships - that's the good stuff.

 

[doppleganger]

Same goes with contending I suppose. It's just the other end of the cycle.

Problem is that not all rebuilds are successful, and thus you have clubs like Carlton who are 25 years and counting without a top4 finish.

Carlton tried to sell the "rebuild line" to its fans back in 2015. They loaded up on highly rated draft picks, the fans bought in and suffered through multiple bottom 4 seasons with green shoots and just wait til Charlie is fit again crap, to just top out at a 13 win season and 5th in 2023....

Now Richmond fans have lapped it up, fingers crossed they get to enjoy another 35+ year "rebuilding cycle" like they had from 1980 to 2017.

 

[Freddy Swift]

Problem is that not all rebuilds are successful, and thus you have clubs like Carlton who are 25 years and counting without a top4 finish.

Carlton tried to sell the "rebuild line" to its fans back in 2015. They loaded up on highly rated draft picks, the fans bought in and suffered through multiple bottom 4 seasons with green shoots and just wait til Charlie is fit again crap, to just top out at a 13 win season and 5th in 2023....

Now Richmond fans have lapped it up, fingers crossed they get to enjoy another 35+ year "rebuilding cycle" like they had from 1980 to 2017.

What a nasty thing to say. You’re hoping Richmond fail again for 35 years. I’ve never wished bad things on another club no matter how much I might dislike them.