Hot Topic The Rebuild, est. 2023 and/or 2025

[Call Me Cake]

Let's not forget Brisbane getting the first priority pick since the new rules were announced, which they used to bring in Charlie.

Lions also seem like bit of an anomaly. For example, Rayner is the only player taken at #1 in over 20 years to have won a premiership with the same club.

 

[BrunoV]

There’s some valid points there but I’m not sure how a club can just will itself into being competitive after two decades of atrocious management leaving it with a terrible squad of senior players and a culture that treats being on an AFL list as Good Enough

I didn't say that it can. It was being discussed as a point of comparison with the scorched earth rebuild, which, despite virtually all evidence to the contrary, is continually held out as the way forward for clubs. It is discussed as though accumulation of top picks will just work, as though a light switch can be flicked and the team can be good again. You know, this bullshit about 9th being the worst place to finish which I continually hear. It's supposed to be about being enough for long enough that you can accumulate a set of picks 1 to 3.

In some ways, it is academic because we've already been shit enough for long enough to just take picks and accumulate talent (except that we can't do that properly either) so we were already on the bottom before we started rebuilding (which is what you're saying). But even then we do have Caddy, Roberts, Clarke, Johnson, Visentini and there are already some extremely encouraging signs from the 4 first picks from the 2026 draft. 9 player in 3 drafts is the sort of haul that ends up being seen as the trigger for success.

There is a balance to be struck between de-listing 3 essentially untested small forwards while playing 4 and 5 mid tall forwards, rewarding front running mids with game time, not keeping Voss, Laverde, Draper (all physical and aggressive players) and not seizing the opportunity to trade Merrett and turn him into so hardnosed competitive players (as I've said a number of times recently, I like Hustwaite and Macginness) and additional picks. I notice that Jack Steele is playing for Melbourne, I did not know that happened. One of Gardner/Lester could surely be coaxed out of Brisbane to help run a zone from half back. Maybe Jew Bews, too.

We're embracing life at the bottom. History suggests we're in year 2 or 3 of a 6 to 8 year run to finals competitiveness.

 

[BrunoV]

Let's not forget Brisbane getting the first priority pick since the new rules were announced, which they used to bring in Charlie.

Lions also seem like bit of an anomaly. For example, Rayner is the only player taken at #1 in over 20 years to have won a premiership with the same club.

And Rayner is average, hardly anyone's idea of the player you need a top pick to recruit.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

And Rayner is average, hardly anyone's idea of the player you need a top pick to recruit.

He basically turned the GF on its head last year.
Wouldve thought hes the sort of player you would get around, may not be consistent but he is high impact, like an actually good patrick voss

 

[BrunoV]

He basically turned the GF on its head last year.
Wouldve thought hes the sort of player you would get around, may not be consistent but he is high impact, like an actually good patrick voss

I'll tell you what, if we get close enough to a GF that we need someone to turn a game, we can used a third round pick to sign Zurhaar for a few seasons.

 

[cavalcade]

We've already gone scorched earth. There's hardly a decent player left on the list .

 

[joey_jo_jo]

I'll tell you what, if we get close enough to a GF that we need someone to turn a game, we can used a third round pick to sign Zurhaar for a few seasons.

im getting the impression you dont watch many brisbane games

 

[BrunoV]

im getting the impression you dont watch many brisbane games

I don't watch a stack, no. I won't lie.

But I don't think we're understanding each other. I am not denying that Rayner is capable of game breaking moments, I've seen them.

I am challenging the idea that those moments justify the investment of a number 1 pick or even that coveted first 5 of whatever it is that sets the top of the draft from the rest (as the reason that a club can't be reasonable at the trade table any given year).

It's interesting that you compared him to Voss, his numbers from last season do not compare favourably to Voss. Allowing for differnece in role the overall output is basically the same. I also accept that Rayner has that game breaking edge, bet it a burst through a pack or a big mark that Voss doesn't have.

But the real point of comparison would be Petracca, De Goey or maybe even Toby Green, wouldn't it?

I'm going to say that the numbers of those guys in their peak years reflects the gulf in overall output to that of Rayner in the last few seasons (his best).

 

[joey_jo_jo]

I don't watch a stack, no. I won't lie.

But I don't think we're understanding each other. I am not denying that Rayner is capable of game breaking moments, I've seen them.

I am challenging the idea that those moments justify the investment of a number 1 pick or even that coveted first 5 of whatever it is that sets the top of the draft from the rest (as the reason that a club can't be reasonable at the trade table any given year).

It's interesting that you compared him to Voss, his numbers from last season do not compare favourably to Voss. Allowing for differnece in role the overall output is basically the same. I also accept that Rayner has that game breaking edge, bet it a burst through a pack or a big mark that Voss doesn't have.

But the real point of comparison would be Petracca, De Goey or maybe even Toby Green, wouldn't it?

I'm going to say that the numbers of those guys in their peak years reflects the gulf in overall output to that of Rayner in the last few seasons (his best).

Im purely disputing your comment "rayner is average". He may not be worth a number 1 pick but hes far from average in what he provides the Lions. They are also stacked in their midfield so dont need to use him or Bailey in the way Petracca was used by the dees/or degoey was used in the Premiership year by lions. He doesnt have Greenes output up forward that I agree on.

On the overall argument re the need for top 5 picks, you may be able to get high caliber players later but I think the % of likelihood drops, having picks in that top 3- 5 gives you a lower margin of error and takes the guess work out of it (unless you're North and decide to draft Will Phillips haha).
Yeah there are examples of dud top 5 picks (we have a few) but I wager than the vast majority in the last 15 or so year's would be quality and teams with multiple picks in that range have been able to build the foundations of a finals list.

 

[Call Me Cake]

Im purely disputing your comment "rayner is average". He may not be worth a number 1 pick but hes far from average in what he provides the Lions. They are also stacked in their midfield so dont need to use him or Bailey in the way Petracca was used by the dees/or degoey was used in the Premiership year by lions. He doesnt have Greenes output up forward that I agree on.

On the overall argument re the need for top 5 picks, you may be able to get high caliber players later but I think the % of likelihood drops, having picks in that top 3- 5 gives you a lower margin of error and takes the guess work out of it (unless you're North and decide to draft Will Phillips haha).
Yeah there are examples of dud top 5 picks (we have a few) but I wager than the vast majority in the last 15 or so year's would be quality and teams with multiple picks in that range have been able to build the foundations of a finals list.

What's disingenuous is when people bring up "scorched Earth" propaganda and use flag sides as examples. I can name more sides that have gone down a "scorched Earth" rebuild who have crashed and burned and created a loser culture that has destroyed their ability to develop players/made them unattractive as a destination for players than sides that haven't but won flags.

 

[doug85]

Merrett, Ridley, Parish, Setterfield and Langford out doesn't change the 1st 3 weeks results, they remain the same, we also have another 6/7 picks to develop/use.

You get a decent enough return on Zach and Ridley, the others value is in their list spot.

They aren't providing on field value, I'm confident they aren't showing off field value.

David Swallow would be more beneficial on this list ahead of Parish in 2026.

We haven't cut into the list hard enough for me.

To be fair, I think I’d be of more value than Darcy Parish by standing fatly on the opposition goal line waving a hanky

 

[Atavistic]

To be fair, I think I’d be of more value than Darcy Parish by standing fatly on the opposition goal line waving a hanky

And you'd do it for free.

 

[SpeckieMcVeigh]

This is what a scorched earth rebuild looks like.

Yeah, except a scorched Earth rebuild shouldn't have been timed when a new club with the best entry conditions in league history is imminent.

 

[doug85]

And you'd do it for free.

Yeah well, I’d see a lot of the action!

 

[Nifft]

I'll tell you what, if we get close enough to a GF that we need someone to turn a game, we can used a third round pick to sign Zurhaar for a few seasons.

We're going to bring Zurhaar out of retirement when he's 60?

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Sorry, what I should have said is it takes longer and you generally run through a few coaches doing it. Scorched earth is not where you want to go if you are looking at a 4 to 6 year plan.

The Melbourne scorched earth plan after Daniher blew up big time and cost them 2 coaches because they screwed their recruiting worse than ours. They spent 6 years going nowhere before Roos/Goodwin came on board and spent another 2 seasons building what Jason Taylor started when Mark Neeld joined as coach. It took them 14 years to win a flag. 11 years to play finals and even then, they fell off the ladder after making the Prelim final and spent two years out of the finals.

Looking at the Tigers I do not think they ever went scorched earth. Yes, they had some poor seasons with Frawley where they won 7 / 7 / 4 games and again under Wallace in 2007 with 3 wins and the season he got sacked with 5 wins but that was not because they blew up the list and were young. When Wallace was sacked in 2009, they had 12 players aged over 25. They were ranked the second oldest by age and 3rd for most experience. That number was cut back to 9 over 25 in Dimma's first year and they dropped back to 12th as far as age and games played in the second year that number was 7 over 25 and 15th and 16th as far as age and games played. It was hardly scorched earth, and the void was filled by more players in the 21 to 24 age brackets along with the draft picks. Looking at it, they never went total scorched earth.

Brisbane certainly did do a clean out after the Voss top up years. They started with 12 guys 25 plus in Leppa's first season and only had 8 in 2016 and none over 30. What is worth looking at with them is they had 16 players in the 21 to 24 age group in 2016 that had 3 to 5 years' experience. So, Brisbane did clean out a lot of older players they had a lot of the next age bracket coming through. There were a lot of decent AFL players on the list even though they were the youngest list and the least experienced. Fagan was able to build reasonably quickly off the back of it. it was a 6 years two coach span to get back to winning finals and 10 years to the GF. The other thin the Lions did well was sort out a few back of house things like player retention. They had a stable recruiting team. A new list manager starting the same time as Fagan and got a decent return out of the 2014 to 2017 drafts. So yes, they went a bit scorched earth, but they did not burn down everything like North and Carlton.

I would have to say that the Lions got there with a 3/4 scorched earth plan. Melbourne got there but did so at a big cost.
In the end the key to any type of rebuild is have the right recruiting team in place. Melbourne went slash and burn and had to change the recruiting team after burning 8 or so top 20 picks. It took 11 seasons under the next guy to get to finals.

I understand how long it takes but I’ve been calling for it since 2010. It’s taken us 20 years to get to the bottom of the ladder without ever trying to ground up build. Kangaroos took a similar path with slightly higher upsides along the way but never enough talent to contend. Saints looking like their attempt is going to fail as well. Fremantle might be the only team I’ve seen in the modern era that’s managed to build a really high standard team after middling for an extended period without hitting the pointy end of the draft for a few superstar hits and even still that’s taken them 10 years and they are yet to win a final.

I agree recruiting is the most important thing,
so much so that I don’t think it even necessarily takes that long if you get it right. It took Melbourne 7 years from Petracca, who I would say is their foundational piece. If they had taken Martin how much sooner could it have been. It doesn’t matter where we finish as long as the talent is available but we aren’t getting anywhere without the talent, the only way you can guarantee talent is by being low enough at the right time or for long enough.

If your recruiter can’t nail pick one then he’s going to have a way harder time picking the eyes out of the draft with worse picks.

And when I say scorched earth I don’t even mean no senior players, I mean you have to make wholesale changes to them. If we were to have cleansed the senior players and replaced them with Steele, Ryan and Mihochek I’d say it’s scorched earth despite retaining a similar age profile.

 

[Call Me Cake]

I understand how long it takes but I’ve been calling for it since 2010. It’s taken us 20 years to get to the bottom of the ladder without ever trying to ground up build. Kangaroos took a similar path with slightly higher upsides along the way but never enough talent to contend. Saints looking like their attempt is going to fail as well. Fremantle might be the only team I’ve seen in the modern era that’s managed to build a really high standard team after middling for an extended period without hitting the pointy end of the draft for a few superstar hits and even still that’s taken them 10 years and they are yet to win a final.

I agree recruiting is the most important thing,
so much so that I don’t think it even necessarily takes that long if you get it right. It took Melbourne 7 years from Petracca, who I would say is their foundational piece. If they had taken Martin how much sooner could it have been. It doesn’t matter where we finish as long as the talent is available but we aren’t getting anywhere without the talent, the only way you can guarantee talent is by being low enough at the right time or for long enough.

If your recruiter can’t nail pick one then he’s going to have a way harder time picking the eyes out of the draft with worse picks.

And when I say scorched earth I don’t even mean no senior players, I mean you have to make wholesale changes to them. If we were to have cleansed the senior players and replaced them with Steele, Ryan and Mihochek I’d say it’s scorched earth despite retaining a similar age profile.

Your analogy rests on the idea that things are built on the plan of a premiership happening in 8 years. That's just dumb. That's not what a rebuild is, nor is it a realistic duration to expect fans to be prospecting for or a realistic duration for an ever changing club to be aligned for. You're the one who is lengthening the duration to suit a narrative because you know history shows otherwise.

When you look back through history most sides rose to being top 4 teams in the few years leading up to it through proper, actual, development of all their picks + sporadic talent aquisition to fill holes/needs - attracting said players by not being bottom feeders - and a little bit of luck with injury. It was not through the outdated and wrong idea of being at the very bottom for a 4 years stockpiling the very top picks one after another. History itself shows that and that trend will be further exemplified with the addition of Tassie.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Your analogy rests on the idea that things are built on the plan of a premiership happening in 8 years. That's just dumb. That's not what a rebuild is, nor is it a realistic duration to expect fans to be prospecting for or a realistic duration for an ever changing club to be aligned for. You're the one who is lengthening the duration to suit a narrative because you know history shows otherwise.

When you look back through history most sides rose to being top 4 teams in the few years leading up to it through proper, actual, development of all their picks + sporadic talent aquisition to fill holes/needs - attracting said players by not bottom feeders - and a little bit of luck with injury. It was not through the outdated and wrong idea of being at the very bottom for a handful of years stockpiling the very top picks one after another. History itself shows that and that trend will be further exemplified with the addition of Tassie.

You say this like we haven’t tried to do that for two decades and it’s led to us to being in the conversation for worst team that’s ever taken the field. Worse than teams that have proactively tanked.

I never stated a time period of a build that for certain leads to a premiership. I’m just certain that you can’t get there without enough exceptionally talented players. How do you get exceptionally talented players? Drafting, trading or rarely NGA/FS. Two of those mechanisms you have little control over.

The overwhelming majority of modern premierships have come from teams that have nailed top multiple 5 draft picks or had super elite players request trades to them, the latter being practically impossible for a terrible team without a unique locational draw to execute.

You say it’s outdated but Ant even admitted that 2 out of the those 3 teams I mentioned did scorched earth builds and they have won the 3 of the last 5 premierships. To act like we are Collingwood, Sydney or Geelong or Hawthorn and our conditions for building are the same as theirs is mentally ill.

 

[Call Me Cake]

Let's take a look at 7 years of Brisbane's national drafts before their rise to top 4 in 2019, bolded are those who featured in any of their Grand Final sides,

2012:

Sam Mayes

32

Sam Mayes

Age

31

Ht

187cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

10.4

4star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.1

4star

G

0.3

3star

D

14.5

3star

K

8.5

3star

HB

6.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.5

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

20.0

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

7.2

5star

M

6.2

5star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.0

1star

(Pick 8)
Marco Paparone

Marco Paparone

Age

31

Ht

195cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.8

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

277.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

10.6

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.0

3star

(Pick 23)
Micheal Close (Pick 32)

2013:

James Aish (Pick 7)
Darcy Gardiner (Pick 22)
Daniel McStay

11

Daniel Mcstay

Age

30

Ht

195cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.6

2star

K

5.3

2star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.9

4star

D

8.6

2star

K

5.3

2star

HB

3.3

2star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.9

4star

D

8.4

3star

K

4.8

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.0

3star

G

1.2

4star

(Pick 25)
Lewis Taylor

28

Lewis Taylor

Age

31

Ht

174cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.6

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.1

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.9

3star

D

9.6

2star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.2

3star

CL

0.2

2star

D

12.6

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

6.4

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

CL

1.2

4star

(Pick 28)
Tom Cutler

12

Tom Cutler

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.1

4star

K

11.7

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

1.7

4star

MG

317.5

4star

D

15.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

6.0

3star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.5

2star

MG

317.5

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

8.4

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

(Pick 33)
Nick Robertson (Pick 34)
Jonathan Freeman

Jonathan Freeman

Age

31

Ht

199cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.3

2star

K

3.5

1star

HB

2.8

2star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.9

3star

G

1.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

5.2

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

2.2

2star

M

2.6

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

(Pick 62)

2014:

Liam Dawson

Liam Dawson

Age

30

Ht

189cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.2

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.1

3star

MG

144.9

2star

No current season stats available

D

9.0

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.6

3star

MG

147.4

3star

(Pick 44)
Harris Andrews (Pick 61)
Josh Clayton

Josh Clayton

Age

30

Ht

191cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

No current season stats available

D

6.0

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

(Pick 65)

2015:

Josh Schache

19

Josh Schache

Age

28

Ht

199cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.3

3star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.5

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

2.5

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

0.0

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

10.2

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.8

4star

(Pick 2)
Eric Hipwood (Pick 14)
Ben Keays

2

Ben Keays

Age

29

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.1

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.9

5star

G

0.4

3star

D

13.7

3star

K

8.7

3star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.7

4star

G

0.3

3star

D

13.0

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.4

2star

T

4.4

5star

G

0.4

3star

(Pick 24)
Rhys Mathieson

36

Rhys Mathieson

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.1

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

18.4

5star

K

9.4

4star

HB

9.0

5star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

2.8

5star

(Pick 39)
Sam Skinner

31

Sam Skinner

Age

28

Ht

197cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.0

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

3.0

5star

MG

101.0

2star

No current season stats available

D

9.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

3.0

5star

MG

101.0

2star

(Pick 47)

2016:

Hugh McCluggage (Pick 3)
Jarrod Berry (Pick 17)
Alex Witherden

23

Alex Witherden

Age

27

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.7

5star

K

15.2

5star

HB

5.5

4star

M

6.2

5star

T

1.8

4star

MG

386.5

5star

D

13.0

3star

K

10.0

4star

HB

3.0

2star

M

7.0

5star

T

0.0

1star

MG

201.0

3star

D

24.0

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

8.6

5star

M

5.8

5star

T

2.2

4star

MG

380.2

5star

(Pick 23)
Cedric Cox

20

Cedric Cox

Age

28

Ht

183cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.8

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

5.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.2

2star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

0.2

3star

(Pick 24)
Jacob Allison

19

Jacob Allison

Age

27

Ht

195cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.2

4star

K

8.3

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

CL

0.7

3star

No current season stats available

D

17.6

5star

K

9.4

4star

HB

8.2

5star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

1.2

4star

(Pick 55)

2017:

Cameron Rayner (Pick 1)
Zac Bailey (Pick 15)
Brandon Starcevich (Pick 18)
Toby Wooller (Pick 41)
Connor Ballenden (Pick 43)
Jack Payne (Pick 54)

2018:

Ely Smith (Pick 21)
Tom Berry (Pick 36)
Tom Joyce (Pick 40)
Connor McFadyen (Pick 42)
Noah Answerth (Pick 55)

Snapshot:

Cameron Rayner (Pick 1)
Hugh McCluggage (Pick 3)
Eric Hipwood (Pick 14)
Zac Bailey (Pick 15)
Jarrod Berry (Pick 17)
Brandon Starcevich (Pick 18)
Darcy Gardiner (Pick 22)
Jack Payne (Pick 54)
Noah Answerth (Pick 55)
Harris Andrews (Pick 61)

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Let's take a look at 7 years of Brisbane's national drafts before their rise to top 4 in 2019, bolded are those who featured in any of their Grand Final sides,

2012:

Sam Mayes (Pick 8)
Marco Paparone (Pick 23)
Micheal Close (Pick 32)

2013:

James Aish (Pick 7)
Darcy Gardiner (Pick 22)
Daniel McStay (Pick 25)
Lewis Taylor (Pick 28)
Tom Cutler (Pick 33)
Nick Robertson (Pick 34)
Jonathan Freeman (Pick 62)

2014:

Liam Dawson (Pick 44)
Harris Andrews (Pick 61)
Josh Clayton (Pick 65)

2015:

Josh Schache (Pick 2)
Eric Hipwood (Pick 14)
Ben Keays (Pick 24)
Rhys Mathieson (Pick 39)
Sam Skinner (Pick 47)

2016:

Hugh McCluggage (Pick 3)
Jarrod Berry (Pick 17)
Alex Witherden (Pick 23)
Cedric Cox (Pick 24)
Jacob Allison (Pick 55)

2017:

Cameron Rayner (Pick 1)
Zac Bailey (Pick 15)
Brandon Starcevich (Pick 18)
Toby Wooller (Pick 41)
Connor Ballenden (Pick 43)
Jack Payne (Pick 54)

2018:

Ely Smith (Pick 21)
Tom Berry (Pick 36)
Tom Joyce (Pick 40)
Connor McFadyen (Pick 42)
Noah Answerth (Pick 55)

So you’re saying 5 of their best 8 or so players came from inside the top 18 of the draft and that’s somehow a point against going to the bottom of the ladder and the successful ones come from when they were at the lowest…

 

[Vindicater]

This year and next year at the top end of the draft and we are done.

I think this offseason is our final big cull of deadwood. 10-11 changes again and then after that we should return to the more standard 7-8 of other clubs.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

This year and next year at the top end of the draft and we are done.

I think this offseason is our final big cull of deadwood. 10-11 changes again and then after that we should return to the more standard 7-8 of other clubs.

From memory rosa or vozzo basically laid out this timeline in an interview last year

 

[Call Me Cake]

You say this like we haven’t tried to do that for two decades

No we haven't. Key point being we haven't done it properly like the majority of teams have. Something that we've been trying to do in recent times.

What's "mentally ill" (using your words not mine) is using Essendon's history as an example in anything. Although I'm not surprised, you haven't seen your own team do what most do properly so you revert to the outdated scorched Earth mentality as if the only thing we (a historically poorly run club) haven't done is a basis for what's meant to be done.

Every team before they bore the fruits of their labour and did the right thing was originally doing the wrong thing before they course corrected. That's no different to us. I also love how you bring up "location" as a goal post move to further suit a narrative like when you tried to turn going back 7 years into 10, when I showed teams like Richmond (who were a laughing stock for 37 years and going into 3 finals series in a row without a win) doing the same, just like I could show you more teams that aren't Geelong or Sydney that have done the same than not. We go by history not by what fantasy your bigfooty brain thinks of.

 

[BrunoV]

Let's take a look at 7 years of Brisbane's national drafts before their rise to top 4 in 2019, bolded are those who featured in any of their Grand Final sides,

2012:

Sam Mayes (Pick 8)
Marco Paparone (Pick 23)
Micheal Close (Pick 32)

2013:

James Aish (Pick 7)
Darcy Gardiner (Pick 22)
Daniel McStay (Pick 25)
Lewis Taylor (Pick 28)
Tom Cutler (Pick 33)
Nick Robertson (Pick 34)
Jonathan Freeman (Pick 62)

2014:

Liam Dawson (Pick 44)
Harris Andrews (Pick 61)
Josh Clayton (Pick 65)

2015:

Josh Schache (Pick 2)
Eric Hipwood (Pick 14)
Ben Keays (Pick 24)
Rhys Mathieson (Pick 39)
Sam Skinner (Pick 47)

2016:

Hugh McCluggage (Pick 3)
Jarrod Berry (Pick 17)
Alex Witherden (Pick 23)
Cedric Cox (Pick 24)
Jacob Allison (Pick 55)

2017:

Cameron Rayner (Pick 1)
Zac Bailey (Pick 15)
Brandon Starcevich (Pick 18)
Toby Wooller (Pick 41)
Connor Ballenden (Pick 43)
Jack Payne (Pick 54)

2018:

Ely Smith (Pick 21)
Tom Berry (Pick 36)
Tom Joyce (Pick 40)
Connor McFadyen (Pick 42)
Noah Answerth (Pick 55)

We are singing from the same hymn book on this.

Brisbane is very clearly not support for the idea that sides need to be on the bottom to accumulate the top picks.

Are people really going to sit here and say that Brisbane wouldn't be where it is today without pick 3 in 2016 and pick 1 in 2017? Are we putting McLuggae and Rayner in the same class as Danger, Bontempelli, Daicos, Dusty, Petracca of the Melbourne finals run, etc? Surely we are not. But this is what is assumed when picks 1 to 3 are taken, isn't it?

Aren't all of the other first round selections just a club taking its picks in any given year?

I notice that Port moved heaven and earth to get JHF and that it is still now facing a 'rebuild' (and with a glut of quality players drafted as recently as 2018).

 

[Call Me Cake]

So you’re saying 5 of their best 8 or so players came from inside the top 18 of the draft and that’s somehow a point against going to the bottom of the ladder and the successful ones come from when they were at the lowest…

Nothing I listed screams scorched Earth.

And let me use your tactics:

Why 7

Why top 18 and not 10?

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