Player Watch #2 Jacob Hopper

[ShereKhan]

Ok if you are going to try and be clever, at least do a good job at it.

My first post on Hopper/Taranto trade

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Later the same day, replying to our old forgotten mate R2R (who called Graham "untouchable) -wonder what ever happened to her?lmao

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Read my prediction for 2025. And read the last paragraph. "The risk is too high here, purely because i think the draft contract money will give us no moves at all moving forward if things dont work out".

Read my comment about that the team we have next year will essentially be the team we have in 2025 & if things go bad and we are 3-7 after 10 rounds, thats where we are till 2025. Guess what we were after 10 rounds 3-6-1 & Dimma quit at exactly that point. I think history shines on me pretty well, hey?

I was hell vocal on the massive risk of this move, I was just more polite back then as i was still warm from the 3 flags. My attitude at the time was the club needed to pick 1 of the 2 players, who it saw fit, and not target the 2. My opinion was Taranto was the better player ( and expected him to be the more expensive), but perhaps Hopper was the better target for us as i believed he was going to be a hell of a lot cheaper - was happy for the club to take who they felt would make the best impact - but taking both was a bad move.

More from the same day, once again with a now hilariously wrong reply/attack from R2R, once again

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Within a day of talking about the deal, I thought it was batshit crazy to take both.And gave solid reasons why that all came true

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When the deal finally went through i had softened on it a bit, but that was only IF we finished top 4 and the pick didn't end up inside the top 10. And this was after the deal was done * i had softened as what choice did i really had? I wanted the deal to work and get us back in the top 4 too - the club had made the choice so i zagged with reality.

Worth remembering from this post that the others here all thought we had robbed GWS & i'm saying - ah nope, if anything GWS did pretty damn well consideri. As it worked out it was pick 6, & we totally ****ed ourselves. I thought, at the time, we possibly overpaid on Taranto - but Hopper might be ok if we finish top 4. As it turns out, we finished bottom 6 & it made the risky deal a ****ing nightmare.

Check your facts next time you try to play Columbo. This place would be a hell of a lot different if you actually held the club as accountable as you , at least try, to do to me. I was pretty bang on i'd say

Yes, you were hesitant but as you say softened and were ok with it, so despite early hesitation fair to say you also got excited about the prospect of what we might achieve in 2023, yeah? You also said you'd prefer Hopper over Taranto.....so let's not get too high and mighty about your genius predictions.

If it was up to you then you'd have happily traded for Hopper and not Taranto. Imagine we got Hopper alone and bypassed Taranto, only to see him dominate for a different club and leave us wondering 'what if'......

You also acknowledged: "Yes, getting them both makes us a much better team & more of a chance of winning the lot". And that's all the club was focussed on knowing our superstars were nearing the end.

But I do apologise about overlooking your initial commentary, it was clear you had some misgivings about getting them both into the club. If you were list manager you would've traded for Hopper only ;-)

 

[ShereKhan]

great post, gee we have a lot of defensive peeps in here, its like we are bagging their first born.

Yep - someone beating their chest about the club's heck-ups in getting both Taranto and Hopper confirms he would've traded for only one of them....Hopper.

 

[ShereKhan]

but it wasnt a good deal at the time - 7 years and price and draft capital. Even dimma quit after seeing how shit they were. The recruiters job is to see this. We all saw after a couple of games he was a tractor who dives on the footy. There needs to be accountability. Same as our drafting mistakes. Needs to be accountability.

Stop lumping TT with Hopper.....chalk and cheese. The TT trade has been great value - he's probably our next skipper and has 5+ quality seasons left.

There's risk with every single trade...but you can't sit back and not take a few risks with 'big trades' for fear they won't work out, otherwise you'd never get any players in.

There was a LOT of criticism of Richmond trading pick-6 for Prestia, no doubt by the very same people who criticised the TT/Hopper trades. Prestia worked out a treat, Hopper didn't. If you could choose doing both trades or doing neither trade, what's your pick?

People like RJK can't possible have liked the Prestia trade on the back of finishing 13th and looking like a rabble if he hated the TT/Hopper trade after we lost a final by a point. Without Prestia we probably don't win 2017 and certainly don't win 2019.

Ironically RJK also said in relation to trading for TT/Hopper that 'we could be missing out on the next Gibcus and Sonsie'. And that's the point....draft picks are largely dumb luck. TT is a dual B&F winner and likely next captain. There's nothing to suggest we'd have drafted stars.

And last point...if TT and Steely Green (part of the Hopper trade) both play in our next contending team as captain and small forward in a few years, then was the trade still a failure?

 

[Truetiger]

nobody is taking him guys

We said the same re Vickery. Anything is possible.

 

[el_simo]

Have said it before, we ruined Hopper the second he walked in and they put him on Jenny Craig and tried to turn him into a generic mid instead of a contested beast. He was a monster at GWS, without his strength he's lost his point of difference.

I reckon that’s a horrible take.



Go back and watch 2021 highlights. He was so much faster and free moving. Actually clear to me he has bulked up way too much at Richmond.

 

[Groupie_]

We said the same re Vickery. Anything is possible.

isnt that mr 28 possies and 5 goals against colonwood back in 2015

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Dumb move paying for what you don't have, as much as I would like him gone.

No point throwing good money after bad. We have 2 choices really

a. Pay 100% of contract amount until end of contract and have him play mostly VFL

b. Pay 50% of his contract amount and free up a list spot for someone who may become a player moving forward

Simple decision really even if its not ideal to be paying him to play for someone else.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

I reckon that’s a horrible take.



Go back and watch 2021 highlights. He was so much faster and free moving. Actually clear to me he has bulked up way too much at Richmond.

 

[Wooden Robot]

We said the same re Vickery. Anything is possible.

That's the beauty of this board.
One decent game, you're an automatic star in the making.
String a few together and you qualify as a champion
One good game as a forward and it's I told you he was always a forward (even if said player's next 10 games as a forward are horrible).
A great game is the benchmark that most don't reach again, but we all remember how good it was and what they are capable of.
Kinda like the Ben Griffiths Syndrome; or maybe the Ty Vickery Syndrome.

 

[Coach_Required]

That's the beauty of this board.
One decent game, you're an automatic star in the making.
String a few together and you qualify as a champion
One good game as a forward and it's I told you he was always a forward (even if said player's next 10 games as a forward are horrible).
A great game is the benchmark that most don't reach again, but we all remember how good it was and what they are capable of.
Kinda like the Ben Griffiths Syndrome; or maybe the Ty Vickery Syndrome.

Also, one bad game and your useless and need to be delisted lol

 

[_RT_]

Dumb move paying for what you don't have, as much as I would like him gone.

Not ideal, but the benefits outweigh the cost IMO.

1. Frees up a list spot to help address another area of need.

2. Frees up a spot in the 23 for a younger player to be developed.

If the opportunity presents we shouldn't have any hesitation in making the deal, especially if us paying his wage gets is a pick in the 2nd round.

 

[THE_GUN]

Might be mistaken but I'm pretty sure we had Rioli and Bolton money on our books in some capacity after they got traded too. I feel this happens with most trades of players who still have years to run on the contract. It helps with leverage if you can absorb some of the wage to demand a higher pick from the club they are going to.

Us regaining that money back is part of what has helped form this war chest we now have.

Blair Hartley was asked after the trade period will Richmond cover some of the money and he said no!
Im sure it was posted in the trades/drafts thread somewhere but i remember his interview where he was asked

 

[Vassp]

Yep - someone beating their chest about the club's heck-ups in getting both Taranto and Hopper confirms he would've traded for only one of them....Hopper.

i beated my chest from the first month, they are both overated mids for the modern game. at least TT can play up forwards for a bit and kick a few goals.

 

[THE_GUN]

Hopper was asked today about the reports of him being traded

Im not going anywhere and love it at Richmond and plan to play out my career at Richmond

 

[DontArgue4]

We said the same re Vickery. Anything is possible.

Thats Vickjesus to you chump

 

[ShereKhan]

Blair Hartley was asked after the trade period will Richmond cover some of the money and he said no!
Im sure it was posted in the trades/drafts thread somewhere but i remember his interview where he was asked

Yep, spot on. I remember Blair specifically saying we were not paying a dime.

 

[Rocco sifreddi]

Whatever it takes get him out of the fn club.

 

[ShereKhan]

i beated my chest from the first month, they are both overated mids for the modern game. at least TT can play up forwards for a bit and kick a few goals.

Every team can cater for at least one highly contested mid who may not have leg speed … they can’t all be ‘Pickett / Bolton’ types:

Dunkley
Rowbottom
Newcombe
Steele
Rowell
Serong

TT suffers because he’s in a midfield mix with Hopper, Prestia and Ross.

 

[Vassp]

Every team can cater for at least one highly contested mid who may not have leg speed … they can’t all be ‘Pickett / Bolton’ types:

Dunkley
Rowbottom
Newcombe
Steele
Rowell
Serong

TT suffers because he’s in a midfield mix with Hopper, Prestia and Ross.

rubbish, he on 750K plus and plays like a part time VFL player. he is too slow, doesnt use the ball well enough and i called it years AGO, its only now our supporters are starting to notice.

 

[Bojangles17]

I reckon that’s a horrible take.



Go back and watch 2021 highlights. He was so much faster and free moving. Actually clear to me he has bulked up way too much at Richmond.

Wrong on both fronts , he’s just not a dynamic midfielder . The astute around here would recall I was always quick to retort to those that said gws were montys to win flags that they were so overrated , my words were I only ever noticed jezza Cameron and Toby green and Taranto back in the day . So all these stat padders like josh Kelly , hopper had made a career of chalking up useless possessions and achieving very little from them

I’ve proven to be so bang on its not funny ,,, well not for gws fans and by extension ,,,,,,us

 

[Wooden Robot]

Hopper was asked today about the reports of him being traded

Im not going anywhere and love it at Richmond and plan to play out my career at Richmond

A bit like the Pres or CEO endorsing the under pressure coach.
He's Goneski.

 

[sanaya]

Hopper was asked today about the reports of him being traded

Im not going anywhere and love it at Richmond and plan to play out my career at Richmond

 

[Truetiger]

Hopper was asked today about the reports of him being traded

Im not going anywhere and love it at Richmond and plan to play out my career at Richmond

I am sure Rioli and others, even at other clubs, say that until the season is over, then they ask for a trade. It means nothing.

 

[Charlie Pannam]

Wrong on both fronts , he’s just not a dynamic midfielder . The astute around here would recall I was always quick to retort to those that said gws were montys to win flags that they were so overrated , my words were I only ever noticed jezza Cameron and Toby green and Taranto back in the day . So all these stat padders like josh Kelly , hopper had made a career of chalking up useless possessions and achieving very little from them

I’ve proven to be so bang on its not funny ,,, well not for gws fans and by extension ,,,,,,us

harsh on Kelly . He’s the one you wanted delivering to Cameron, certainly not Hopper.
Pure inside mids like Hopper held more value back then.
I sort of feel we got Hopper and Taranto just as/before the game really swung towards transition mids, and it’s continued that way.

 

[Vassp]

harsh on Kelly . He’s the one you wanted delivering to Cameron, certainly not Hopper.
Pure inside mids like Hopper held more value back then.
I sort of feel we got Hopper and Taranto just as/before the game really swung towards transition mids, and it’s continued that way.

You are partly right, but it still doesnt make up for the fact that his and tt disposal is at VFL level most of the times.

We are not paying attention to the intricacies of the midfield roll as it is changing and are happy to pull out the stat sheet just to justify our new toys.

ALF tactics are evolving to a smarter game style, and I know hardcore peeps here dont want to hear it, but its the truth.

Forwards are paid to score. No point taking 10 marks and kicking 7 behinds and 1 goal.
That doesnt win games. (as we saw with Lynch vs the blues early this year).

Mids are paid to create play and run both ways. No point winning the ball 30 times to give it away to the oppo 15 times...
Thats a zero sum game. might as well not be there.

TT is not our best mid Adam Yze, A fit Lalor is currently our best mid, followed by Ross.

I am just trying to shed some light on how tactics in the AFL world are changing.
And hopefully the days of mids stacking up possessions and automatically getting the 3 votes will be a thing of the past.