Retired 17. Hamish McIntosh (2013-2015)

[Moggy]

And it has not happened every weekend. Every now and then is good.

Let's be honest though. Our boys have a very, very high set of standards that have built up over the past 6 years. Sometimes there are mistakes that should not be made by some inexperienced/crap players.


Would you rather

A. Tell the player "Job well done! That opposition player sure is a great kick for goal! You sure did a good job of letting him show it off!"

B. Shut up and ignore the player...which is pretty stupid, given that our coaches specifically want the older guys to help out and mentor the younger ones; and even if they don't want that in particular, there is absolutely nothing wrong with receiving a bit of flak from a triple premiership legend. It is, if anything, beneficial to your game. If I was a young player and Jimmy told me "Pull your head in, that was an easy mark!", I would pull my head in and do flips, sprints, whatever it takes to mark anything and everything - just to prove him wrong and impress him.

C. Tell the player off, let him learn his lesson, and have him get better on-field because of it. If a player receives a spray from a champion player and takes it on board, he is already a better player. If he talks back, he is either as dumb as a bat or just as frustrated with his own game.

It's exactly like most parents and children. If a kid does something stupid and his parents discipline him, he will learn from his mistakes, and that should be it. If a kid does something stupid, and he answers back his parents/questions his parents when they discipline him, that
just causes more problems.

If a parent doesn't discipline his/her kids at all, that is asking for trouble, the same way that simple footy mistakes shouldn't go under the radar.

We have the perfect group to mentor our kids, a group that is actually worthy of telling the kids where they are at and what they need to work on; why not utilise it every now and then.

I think there are other options, such as jog over, look a bloke in the eye and calmly explain what wasn't good enough, or save it for the huddle.

Allowing frustration to come out publicly is almost never a good thing, and rarely leads to a turn-around. It is certainly the last, desperate option, IMO.

 

[Moggy]

Heath Shaw let's loose at his defenders pretty much every single game.
Usually after the first quarter siren sounds they focus the cameras right in on him and they will throw up one of those mini advertising logo's in the right hand corner for a few seconds as they know people are going to be watching to see how nuts he goes.

Obviously a commercials wet dream is Heath

That sort of "look at me" display is for the benefit of the individual, at the expense of the team.

 

[Moggy]

In all the HMac highlights that have been put together to go along with the trade period, I don't think I have seen a single piece of ruck-work. It's all mark-and-goal stuff.
Bit disappointing, as I was hoping to see his past work.

In general though, the highlights editors are way too enamoured of goal kicking.
I saw a Corey Enright package recently that focussed almost entirely on goals he has kicked. Now, he has kicked some handy ones, but surely any true highlights package of Boris should focus on his brilliant work down back.

After a bit of a root round...there's a few ruck duels in this clip, but he probably comes out 50/50. Didn't find much else.

Anyone got anything better?

 

[footscore]

I saw a Corey Enright package recently that focussed almost entirely on goals he has kicked

yeh I know what you mean, would love to get hold of earlier vids back 6-7 years ago to highlight how many times he would make a forward look like the defender by making them try and get the ball as opposed to the opposite.
His balance and composure in a contested situation down back is as good as Scarlett imo, he will get beaten every now and again and exposed but more often than not he always wins one on one duels.

You watch some fools start to hang shit on him as they did Scarlett given he's now 31 years of age and simply can't continue beating every opponent but people who were privileged to watch Bruce Doull play...they say he was one of the very best stoppers but surely Boris would have to be moving in on the 'flying doormat' for consistently producing brilliant/solid football, year after year?

 

[FredLeDeux]

In all the HMac highlights that have been put together to go along with the trade period, I don't think I have seen a single piece of ruck-work. It's all mark-and-goal stuff.
Bit disappointing, as I was hoping to see his past work.

In general though, the highlights editors are way too enamoured of goal kicking.
I saw a Corey Enright package recently that focussed almost entirely on goals he has kicked. Now, he has kicked some handy ones, but surely any true highlights package of Boris should focus on his brilliant work down back.

After a bit of a root round...there's a few ruck duels in this clip, but he probably comes out 50/50. Didn't find much else.

Anyone got anything better?

Same with the Rivers clip released on the day. All goals.

 

[Jmac2225]

In all the HMac highlights that have been put together to go along with the trade period, I don't think I have seen a single piece of ruck-work. It's all mark-and-goal stuff.
Bit disappointing, as I was hoping to see his past work.

In general though, the highlights editors are way too enamoured of goal kicking.
I saw a Corey Enright package recently that focussed almost entirely on goals he has kicked. Now, he has kicked some handy ones, but surely any true highlights package of Boris should focus on his brilliant work down back.

After a bit of a root round...there's a few ruck duels in this clip, but he probably comes out 50/50. Didn't find much else.
?

Won quite a few clearances there. Could be a valuable asset.

 

[Cursed Cat]

people who were privileged to watch Bruce Doull play...they say he was one of the very best stoppers but surely Boris would have to be moving in on the 'flying doormat' for consistently producing brilliant/solid football, year after year?

I saw a bit of Doull, who was a great, great player, and very much comparable to Enright in their respective temperaments and skills - Doull was perhaps a bit better in the air, Enright provides more drive, but both took a very responsible attitude to defending.

 

[Selective Retention]

Same with the Rivers clip released on the day. All goals.

How to make a highlights clip in 30 seconds.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/J/Jared_Rivers.html

Let's see he kicked 4 against GWS.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/games/2012/112120120624.html#prog

Wind the tape of that game to 8 minutes in.

Voila instant highlights!

Defensive work would take some time to find, Ruckwork (or at least centre bounces) for HMac should obviously be easy to find though.

 

[footscore]

Doull was perhaps a bit better in the air

cheers!
So he had some of Taylor's aerial ability mixed into the total package on top of it ay.
He really didn't look that big or solid either which makes it even more impressive as the forwards in his day were pure footballers who could all mark as well.

 

[Cursed Cat]

cheers!
So he had some of Taylor's aerial ability mixed into the total package on top of it ay.
He really didn't look that big or solid either which makes it even more impressive as the forwards in his day were pure footballers who could all mark as well.

no worries - I dont pretend to be a Doull expert, but I did see him play, including a very memorable battle with Gary Ablett snr at Princes Park one day - Ablett probably took the points, but Doull was right on his hammer every step of the way (Doull was in the twilight of his career too) - the Cats got the points too.

Doull was a half-back flanker but he played pretty tall, and very tight.
He was pretty wide across the shoulders and had pretty long arms too.

But personally I rate Corey Enright's output to be right up alongside Doull & other great back-flankers I have seen, e.g. Bluey McKenna, Kenny Hinkley, John Worsfold, Kenny Hunter (again, mainly saw the tail-end of Hunter's career), Mark Bos, Mark Browning, Brett Lovett; I'm probably forgetting some obvious guns too (I started getting into VFL around '84-'85).
All different players with different strengths and weaknesses, different approaches to balancing attack and defense (e.g. Worsfold was pretty much a stopper, Hinkley was very attacking).

Enright is definitely right amongst their company.

edit : Tommy Alvin went alright for a few years too; he tended to be underrated because of his girly long-locks, he was a pretty good player though. Peter Dean was another good Carlton back-flanker, they seem to have had plenty (as have the Cats)

 

[FredLeDeux]

no worries - I dont pretend to be a Doull expert, but I did see him play, including a very memorable battle with Gary Ablett snr at Princes Park one day - Ablett probably took the points, but Doull was right on his hammer every step of the way (Doull was in the twilight of his career too) - the Cats got the points too.

Doull was a half-back flanker but he played pretty tall, and very tight.
He was pretty wide across the shoulders and had pretty long arms too.

But personally I rate Corey Enright's output to be right up alongside Doull & other great back-flankers I have seen, e.g. Bluey McKenna, Kenny Hinkley, John Worsfold, Kenny Hunter (again, mainly saw the tail-end of Hunter's career), Mark Bos, Mark Browning, Brett Lovett; I'm probably forgetting some obvious guns too (I started getting into VFL around '84-'85).
All different players with different strengths and weaknesses, different approaches to balancing attack and defense (e.g. Worsfold was pretty much a stopper, Hinkley was very attacking).

Enright is definitely right amongst their company.

Yes, in my time following Geelong it would be Enright, Hinkley, Bos in order for us, and only Doull up there with Enright.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Yes, in my time following Geelong it would be Enright, Hinkley, Bos in order for us, and only Doull up there with Enright.

yeah I pretty much agree FredLeDeux, although Guy McKenna was also a really top-notch back-flanker too imo ...

and I reckon we both unintentionally snubbed one of the very best to ever represent the hoops on a back-flank, one Darren Milburn - whoops

Tim Darcy probably should have played the bulk of his career as a back-flanker instead of shoring up key defensive spots (and occasionally going forward to reasonable effect) too.

 

[footscore]

how do you think Scarlett would have gone in 80's/early 90's footy?

 

[FredLeDeux]

yeah I pretty much agree FredLeDeux, although Guy McKenna was also a really top-notch back-flanker too imo ...

and I reckon we both unintentionally snubbed one of the very best to ever represent the hoops on a back-flank, one Darren Milburn - whoops

Tim Darcy probably should have played the bulk of his career as a back-flanker instead of shoring up key defensive spots (and occasionally going forward to reasonable effect) too.

Agree with you about McKenna.
Milburn our next cab off the rank but not, I think, as good as our other three.
Darcy not in the running for mine (geez, he used to make some clangers at full back).

how do you think Scarlett would have gone in 80's/early 90's footy?

Would have done just as well then as later, though he would have played as a conventional man on man full back (like his father did earlier, with similar pace, especially closing speed).
I suspect Scarlo would have been highly efficient in the use of the elite full back's weapon of choice for that era, namely the full blooded smack in the back of the head for any full forward taking the mark on a lead.

 

[footscore]

I suspect Scarlo would have been highly efficient in the use of the elite full back's weapon of choice for that era, namely the full blooded smack in the back of the head for any full forward taking the mark on a lead.

he would have enjoyed the style of game no doubt about that.
He's a nasty bloke (on the field) but I often wonder about it.
He says Lloyd was one of his toughest opponents and to me, Lloyd was a conventional old-styled full forward who was brilliant in the air and also brilliant on the lead and most of the blokes who were forwards in that era, they had similar traits to that of Lloyd.

 

[David the Cat]

how do you think Scarlett would have gone in 80's/early 90's footy?

GA Snr and Lockett would have been a handful for any full back of any era...Dunstall too but to a lesser extent imo...

That being said, Scarlett would be a top line player in any era...

 

[Cursed Cat]

how do you think Scarlett would have gone in 80's/early 90's footy?

Of course it's pure speculation footscore, but I have no doubt he would have found a way to thrive.
He would have gotten away with a lot more as far as scragging, chopping his opponent's arms, subtle jumper holding, all that.
But he also would have been faced with some of the greatest Full Forwards the game has ever seen - not Ablett snr of course, but Tony Lockett and Jason Dunstall for starters.
Simon Beasley was a slippery customer, very canny, deadly shot at goal.
Bernie Quinlan was just a brilliant player, I suspect he would have troubled Scarlo as much as anyone.
Brian Taylor and Michael Roach were both handfuls; Roach the better player but he suffered his share of injuries; I reckon Scarlett would have smashed BT though.
Warwick Capper was always hard to get a line on; excellent shot on goal from 35m or closer, quite brave in his attack on the ball in the air, but he definitely had his limitations.

I saw the developing careers of some of the great full-backs of that era, and some of the very best struggled early and took their time in maturing and finding consistency; Langford took a while to find his feet and was actually a Schoenmakers-type early on; tall with an impressive build, but uncertain in his attack on the contest. Mick Martyn took his time in overcoming his limitations. Gary Pert was injured more often than not. I didn't see the best of Ricky Kennedy or Jim Jess. Silvagni took time to find his spot, I saw an aging Peter Knights kick a bag on him when he was a young lad; pretty sure he was dropped for the 1987 Grand Final too (and to be fair I seem to remember him playing a very good game in the VFL reserves GF, which Carlton were in).

Danny Hughes was actually really good when I first started watching footy, but he ended playing a trouble-shooting role for the Demons.
Danny Frawley was a pure stopper and very bloody good at it, extremely niggly type, great concentration; he always troubled Ablett snr; look at Ablett's record against St.Kilda, who were generally shite during Ablett's career, and you'll see (from memory, hope I'm not wrong) that Ablett's goal average was surprisingly modest against the Saints - Frawley was the reason for that.
Rod Carter was also a very dour defensive type, 'Tilt' was sometimes portrayed as somewhat of a novelty act but he was a really good full back in another often poor team.
The Cats basically had no-one, Malarkey was shot by the time I started watching VFL; Darcy tried hard though.

They're most of the 80's full-backs that I can remember; Scarlett at his best (which was a long reign) was easily a match for all of them imo.

 

[footscore]

yeh' Dunstall was quite amazing.
I think of how damn good Hawkins was this year but Dunstall's best was another level above that, although he always had terrific supply from midfield...his hands were vice-like.
Seemed to never double grab or fumble when the ball was within his vicinity and am unsure if this is due to the state of the game today or we just haven't got the same kind of talented forwards coming through the system

 

[Cursed Cat]

I know we've gone way off-topic, but I'll risk one more post regarding previous-generation Geelong defenders; there are a few older blokes who I have seen post on this board who have been watching the Cats for a loooong time, always love to hear their opinions on Geelong players that played before my time as a supporter ...

 

[FredLeDeux]

Ashley McIntosh, too, CC.

 

[David the Cat]

Yes...one wonders if the age of goal kicking power full forwards will return again...

Whether you liked them or not, the Lockett, Dunstall, Ablett Snr's of this world were great to watch. Jack Riewoldt doesnt quite have the same aura.

Franklin is exceptional but not a FF.

 

[FredLeDeux]

I know we've gone way off-topic, but I'll risk one more post regarding previous-generation Geelong defenders; there are a few older blokes who I have seen post on this board who have been watching the Cats for a loooong time, always love to hear their opinions on Geelong players that played before my time as a supporter ...

Prefer "more seasoned".

 

[David the Cat]

I know we've gone way off-topic, but I'll risk one more post regarding previous-generation Geelong defenders; there are a few older blokes who I have seen post on this board who have been watching the Cats for a loooong time, always love to hear their opinions on Geelong players that played before my time as a supporter ...

When I was a kid, Geelong had the best half back line going around...

S Lord Walker Devine

Stewart Lord was not as good as his brother and my recollection was that he was more a stopper like player. He killed the forward thrusts and then relied on Farmer/Goggin/Marshall etc to get he ball away. The OOB on the full rule would have killed Stewart!!

Peter Walker was a marvellous player..dashing CHB, good hands and a lovely kick. His tussles with Royce Hart were great to watch. And your talking cream when you talk of Royce Hart.

Devine was as tough as nuts and didn't mind handing it out, and rarely got caught doing it. Vice-Captain of a great side, who performed well week after week.

The 70's were a forgettable era....not sure who in that decade stood out...have to rely on others as I was away for much of that decade concentrating on my own footy and studying at the same time.

 

[footscore]

good read Cursed
painted the picture quite well for those reading at the minute.

Some of those players I would never have thought of but the abundance of quality forwards seems stark in comparison to 2012.
In regards to Frawley, yep you are correct because let's say we give Frawley 3 years to get going as he was beaten a few times prior by Gazza but after 87, Gazza only managed 5 marks and averaged 3 goals against him.
Still not bad but definitely he along with Silvagni were the two who troubled him most.
Malarkey am unsure of as I only got a few vids of him but never saw him play.

 

[David the Cat]

Prefer "more seasoned".

You mean like a plump turkey?