Past #17: Nathan Grima

[shinboner magic]

So LT is the worst offender for playing for frees in the league- see selwood / sookywoldt.

LT to be reported this week is odds on.

Pack if fairy boys at north.

 

[Caracas]

The following are true statements:-

• LT gets fouled a lot.
• LT exaggerates more than Ronaldo.
• LT gets less free kicks than he is due.
• LT would give his life for NM.
• LT is a great player and our top scorer.
• LT is one of my favourite players at NM.

That about covers it, I think. Boy, we really need to win our next four games, don't we?

 

[B4Bear]

He always plays with heart and passion IMO, and I think the diving is borne more of frustration than anything. But I agree he does himself no favours and I wish it wasn't part of his game.

I'm not comfortable with all the crap he's copping this week though, there are far worse things going on with that team at the moment.

But it is symptomatic of issues within the club.

It is a symptom of a deeper malaise, not the cause.

That is, refusing to face up to the reality of a situation.

If they ignore/condone this, then what else are they doing the same for.

And that goes for the whole club, from the president down.

 

[Caracas]

From my point of view, I believe LT's antics are similar in nature to Selwood's, etc. and while I'd prefer if he didn't behave like that, I can live with it. As far as NM are concerned, the player that annoys me most on the simulation side of things is Scott Thompson. He's a guy who constantly niggles oppenents and then behaves like he's been seriously hurt when someone gives him a bit of a love tap in response. You can even see it in the episode with Stevie J on the weekend. He looks like he's in serious pain but you just know he isn't. Way worse than LT to my mind.

 

[Devington]

From my point of view, I believe LT's antics are similar in nature to Selwood's, etc. and while I'd prefer if he didn't behave like that, I can live with it. As far as NM are concerned, the player that annoys me most on the simulation side of things is Scott Thompson. He's a guy who constantly niggles oppenents and then behaves like he's been seriously hurt when someone gives him a bit of a love tap in response. You can even see it in the episode with Stevie J on the weekend. He looks like he's in serious pain but you just know he isn't. Way worse than LT to my mind.

Scooter had to give evidence at the tribunal tonight. Turns out he went into the game carrying some broken ribs, and thats where SJ got him.

But yeah, he niggles too much for my liking. He's shown he can be an absolutely top notch player, but has IMO been paying too much attention to his opponents than the game recently.

 

[kelman]

People are completely missing the point ^^.

The issue is not about whether LT should or shouldn't stage/dive. Or if we accept he does, whether he should stop it or cut it back or whatever.

The reason people are disappointed is that he is being hung, drawn and quartered by the media due to comments made by his own coach and teammate (for something plenty of other players do, where their coach and teammates back them up constantly and/or deal internally if need be.)

Scott was out of line to make it a media storm again and take the focus off himself by responding to the question in that manner, and Grima should just concern himself with getting a kick rather than criticizing LT.

Scott didn't create a media storm. Lindsay's reputation as a diver amongst the media far predates last Saturday night. It wasn't a deflection - He answered a question about a player honestly, like many coaches before him (including a few weeks ago from the premiership coach).

Lindsay is a professional, not a baby, and should deal with this by stopping his incessant diving.

I thought we wanted our players to toughen up?

 

[archereleven]

He does need to be tougher, even his players said they expected him to be tougher and he should be. Players are getting what they want, some honesty and home truths. I think if things are going fine and you have a small slip up there is no need to pot a player or air dirty laundry, but we have systemic problems which are both structurally related and effort related. You can see from the replay there were numerous examples in every quarter where a player didn't go hard enough, didn't go with his man hard enough defensively and a fair few are from experienced players who should know better.

We have much bigger problems than LTs diving but we have to ask each player individually do they really want success and how hard are they prepared to work for success... then show them the video low lights and ask why didn't go you hard in this example and that example, etc and find out if people are switched on mentally or not.

We need to revert more to man-on-man footy to really highlight the weak links in the chain, this zone footy where players give up and point for someone else to do the hard running is sheer bullshit, the zone isn't going to work if people are shirking their responsibilities.

Being tougher on the players doesnt mean hanging them out to dry while the media circle them like vultures. We have systemic problems alright, but who is the cause of these problems? Is it the players or is it the coach that let them get a away with murder out on the field and still does? If you really think what Scott and Narni did to LT was the right way to go about it, then id hate to be in the trenches with you. Youd shoot me in the back for my lunch the moment you got hungry.

Scott offered LT to the media to feed on, to cover up his shitty coaching and the fact that he has gifted the whole side games and now wonders why they cant motivate each week.

 

[Tas]

Being tougher on the players doesnt mean hanging them out to dry while the media circle them like vultures. We have systemic problems alright, but who is the cause of these problems? Is it the players or is it the coach that let them get a away with murder out on the field and still does? If you really think what Scott and Narni did to LT was the right way to go about it, then id hate to be in the trenches with you. Youd shoot me in the back for my lunch the moment you got hungry.

Scott offered LT to the media to feed on, to cover up his shitty coaching and the fact that he has gifted the whole side games and now wonders why they cant motivate each week.

I wouldn't be stuck in a trench so that is never going to happen.

There is also a bit of hysteria about it really, all he said is he doesn't like it, doesn't think it has a place in football, has talked to him about it before but it has crept into his game a bit of late and he will talk to him about it. I didn't see him swing a rope over a beam.

There are numerous players in the league who dive or exaggerate contact or initiate contact by ducking or dropping the knees. We can't control what they do, only what we do.

Does is make you cry if journos have a crack at some of our players? They should have a crack at more of them, they are highly paid professional sportsmen and with that comes a high level of review from the media. We have tried to make no comment in the media in the past on various issues, it doesn't stop the media writing shit articles, if you do not make a comment you lose control of the ability to put forth the club message out there.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

From my point of view, I believe LT's antics are similar in nature to Selwood's, etc. and while I'd prefer if he didn't behave like that, I can live with it. As far as NM are concerned, the player that annoys me most on the simulation side of things is Scott Thompson. He's a guy who constantly niggles oppenents and then behaves like he's been seriously hurt when someone gives him a bit of a love tap in response. You can even see it in the episode with Stevie J on the weekend. He looks like he's in serious pain but you just know he isn't. Way worse than LT to my mind.

Thompson had broken ribs.

That's why he looked in serious pain.

 

[archereleven]

I wouldn't be stuck in a trench so that is never going to happen.

There is also a bit of hysteria about it really, all he said is he doesn't like it, doesn't think it has a place in football, has talked to him about it before but it has crept into his game a bit of late and he will talk to him about it. I didn't see him swing a rope over a beam.

There are numerous players in the league who dive or exaggerate contact or initiate contact by ducking or dropping the knees. We can't control what they do, only what we do.

Does is make you cry if journos have a crack at some of our players? They should have a crack at more of them, they are highly paid professional sportsmen and with that comes a high level of review from the media. We have tried to make no comment in the media in the past on various issues, it doesn't stop the media writing shit articles, if you do not make a comment you lose control of the ability to put forth the club message out there.

I dont mind anyone having a crack at our boys over their skills, endeavour, decision making etc For our coach to publicly call out one of our best players over bullshit, whether he dives or not, is being a shit campaigner.

I want Brad to be hard as nails on these players. I want to see him drop non performers, i want players dragged, i want players that are being lazy to be given the red vest. I want this team to man the **** up and play the NM way. What i dont want, is one our blokes getting bashed from pillar to post by knob jockeys outside of the club and publicly shamed/embarrassed because the coach didnt have the sack to obfuscate.

Lindsays dive didnt have an effect on the game. The shit skills did, the poor defensive running did, the umpires did, getting r*ped through the corridor did. If Brad is going to call LT out, then grow a pair a call out Duckwood. Call out the umpires too. Football requires you to work for each other, not pot each other in the media. All for players/coaches potting each other behind closed doors though

 

[Engimal]

He needs to stop diving and if the words to him behind closed doors hasn't done the trick then perhaps this will. Scott Thompson was baked in the media for being an annoying niggler and he copped a lot of criticism about it and he decided he didn't want to be remembered as just an annoying defender, he still does annoying things to forwards but he cut out a lot of the stooging and became a better player for it, well, prior to this year at least. :stern look

Spot on.

 

[coopers pale]

I liked that Scott didn't condone it, I didn't think he needed to go back over it the second time because that made it sound worse than it was. He exaggerated a push, he didn't punch anyone or give away a game changing 50m or free kick. All he did was take himself out of a contest, that's the issue for me, when he exaggerates (he actually rarely just dives) he leaves us 1 player down in the contest. That's what I'd have liked Scott to talk about, because it's stronger language and it's about not letting your teammates down, rather than "he might not get a free next time", focus on the play not the umpire. It should be a team rule to not go to ground unless you're knocked over or diving for a mark, we go to ground too much IMO.

 

[Tas]

I dont mind anyone having a crack at our boys over their skills, endeavour, decision making etc For our coach to publicly call out one of our best players over bullshit, whether he dives or not, is being a shit campaigner.

I want Brad to be hard as nails on these players. I want to see him drop non performers, i want players dragged, i want players that are being lazy to be given the red vest. I want this team to man the **** up and play the NM way. What i dont want, is one our blokes getting bashed from pillar to post by knob jockeys outside of the club and publicly shamed/embarrassed because the coach didnt have the sack to obfuscate.

Lindsays dive didnt have an effect on the game. The shit skills did, the poor defensive running did, the umpires did, getting r*ped through the corridor did. If Brad is going to call LT out, then grow a pair a call out Duckwood. Call out the umpires too. Football requires you to work for each other, not pot each other in the media. All for players/coaches potting each other behind closed doors though

I just think people have made too much of it. I am confident LT will respond and will be a better player for it and it will be a good news story and hopefully it will be an example that players don't need to dive to be an effective player.

Our blokes get bashed up in the media because we are losers. We lost the game so it is a focus, we lose to shit teams so people are starting to look at the selfish and undisciplined acts we do every game to explain to readers or views why a team with a lot of young talent who beats Freo on the road, Swans on the road, beats Hawthorn and Port yet loses to shit teams religiously and loses to a team three times now by giving the game away on a silver platter.

So the journos are starting to point fingers, when you dive it is not just you looking for a cheap free kick, you are not committed to the contest and are not there for the second and third effort if you don't get the free kick. It lets down your team mates and the supporters and gives more insight into the club when you analyse the game and see countless selfish, undisciplined and uncommitted acts from numerous players and we wonder why we drop games and are not the side we could have been.

The questions need to be asked and the spotlight needs to be on highbeam, we have been let off the hook for too long for being a young development team with 'potential'. We aren't that young any longer and the team in general needs to live off performance rather than potential.

 

[archereleven]

I just think people have made too much of it. I am confident LT will respond and will be a better player for it and it will be a good news story and hopefully it will be an example that players don't need to dive to be an effective player.

Our blokes get bashed up in the media because we are losers. We lost the game so it is a focus, we lose to shit teams so people are starting to look at the selfish and undisciplined acts we do every game to explain to readers or views why a team with a lot of young talent who beats Freo on the road, Swans on the road, beats Hawthorn and Port yet loses to shit teams religiously and loses to a team three times now by giving the game away on a silver platter.

So the journos are starting to point fingers, when you dive it is not just you looking for a cheap free kick, you are not committed to the contest and are not there for the second and third effort if you don't get the free kick. It lets down your team mates and the supporters and gives more insight into the club when you analyse the game and see countless selfish, undisciplined and uncommitted acts from numerous players and we wonder why we drop games and are not the side we could have been.

The questions need to be asked and the spotlight needs to be on highbeam, we have been let off the hook for too long for being a young development team with 'potential'. We aren't that young any longer and the team in general needs to live off performance rather than potential.

I agree with all this, but you still dont pot players about trivial shit. We might be shit and have heartless players, and yes, LT might look for the cheap free, but our best forward is backing up a 53 goal season with a more than likely 50+ goal season again. Hardly the problem. At the end of the day, i just cant agree with anyone in the club potting a champion player that gives his all.

 

[Tas]

I agree with all this, but you still dont pot players about trivial shit. We might be shit and have heartless players, and yes, LT might look for the cheap free, but our best forward is backing up a 53 goal season with a more than likely 50+ goal season again. Hardly the problem. At the end of the day, i just cant agree with anyone in the club potting a champion player that gives his all.

I love LT and think he is a fantastic player and it makes me sad he has been singled out for numerous incidents, but the diving thing I can't stomach, I don't think he wants his career tarnished by it and I know if he just forgets about the diving and focuses on the ball he will become an even better player.

Had we won, I doubt Scott would have taken the pot shot, he has said things during post match interviews he has never followed through with.

 

[jacko57]

From my point of view, I believe LT's antics are similar in nature to Selwood's, etc. and while I'd prefer if he didn't behave like that, I can live with it. As far as NM are concerned, the player that annoys me most on the simulation side of things is Scott Thompson. He's a guy who constantly niggles oppenents and then behaves like he's been seriously hurt when someone gives him a bit of a love tap in response. You can even see it in the episode with Stevie J on the weekend. He looks like he's in serious pain but you just know he isn't. Way worse than LT to my mind.

yes, and often milks a free by ducking into a tackle a la Selwood. One day, will seriously injure himself. Or will give away a crucial free for holding the ball.

 

[Jimms]

Didn't Scott come up under Malthouse? Mick would usually say something ridiculous in order to get the heat off the playing group.

"Mick, what did you make of Didak's flopping?"
"I think we should reinstate slavery"

 

[Saintly31]

I just think people have made too much of it. I am confident LT will respond and will be a better player for it and it will be a good news story and hopefully it will be an example that players don't need to dive to be an effective player.

Our blokes get bashed up in the media because we are losers. We lost the game so it is a focus, we lose to shit teams so people are starting to look at the selfish and undisciplined acts we do every game to explain to readers or views why a team with a lot of young talent who beats Freo on the road, Swans on the road, beats Hawthorn and Port yet loses to shit teams religiously and loses to a team three times now by giving the game away on a silver platter.

So the journos are starting to point fingers, when you dive it is not just you looking for a cheap free kick, you are not committed to the contest and are not there for the second and third effort if you don't get the free kick. It lets down your team mates and the supporters and gives more insight into the club when you analyse the game and see countless selfish, undisciplined and uncommitted acts from numerous players and we wonder why we drop games and are not the side we could have been.

The questions need to be asked and the spotlight needs to be on highbeam, we have been let off the hook for too long for being a young development team with 'potential'. We aren't that young any longer and the team in general needs to live off performance rather than potential.

You are focusing on what the media should or shouldn't do.

I don't really care what they want to say or write, the reason I think it is inappropriate is you don't single out a player (even when asked) in that manner. Nor does a guy who has done more media commitments than played games this year have any right to say anything to be quite honest. If he wants to go down that path he should just hang up the boots, as his continual absences hurt us more than the occasionally few good games he manages to string together.

Further;
Why isn't Boomer singled out for running twice as fast offensively as he does defensively?
Why isn't Bastinac singled out for some of the most disgracefully uncommitted efforts you will see on a footy field?
Why isn't Petrie singled out for being one of the worst leaders this club has ever had when needing to stand up?
And so on.

Every player has their faults, and some are pretty glaring. I don't get why Scott would want to fuel a media storm on one of the few players that actually seems to care and have the pride for the jumper. It is unfair and in my view very hypocritical.

 

[Tas]

You are focusing on what the media should or shouldn't do.

I don't really care what they want to say or write, the reason I think it is inappropriate is you don't single out a player (even when asked) in that manner. Nor does a guy who has done more media commitments than played games this year have any right to say anything to be quite honest. If he wants to go down that path he should just hang up the boots, as his continual absences hurt us more than the occasionally few good games he manages to string together.

Further;
Why isn't Boomer singled out for running twice as fast offensively as he does defensively?
Why isn't Bastinac singled out for some of the most disgracefully uncommitted efforts you will see on a footy field?
Why isn't Petrie singled out for being one of the worst leaders this club has ever had when needing to stand up?
And so on.

Every player has their faults, and some are pretty glaring. I don't get why Scott would want to fuel a media storm on one of the few players that actually seems to care and have the pride for the jumper. It is unfair and in my view very hypocritical.

Because the AFL doesn't fine players for being half-arsed sportsmen, they do fine and can suspend you for diving. They very rarely enforce the rule but the rule exists because it is seen as a blight on the game, it harms the image of the player and the club a lot more than any other flaws you have tried to compare it to.

 

[Saintly31]

Because the AFL doesn't fine players for being half-arsed sportsmen, they do fine and can suspend you for diving. They very rarely enforce the rule but the rule exists because it is seen as a blight on the game, it harms the image of the player and the club a lot more than any other flaws you have tried to compare it to.

And they reviewed LTs incident and didn't fine for diving, rather said there was nothing to answer and they were quite right - it was a free anyway.

Regarding harms the image of the club and so on, don't agree. It only harms the image if attention is brought to it - media are vultures, tell them to piss off off rather give them more ammo. As much as I don't always agree with Malthouse, I do like how he treats these idiots with the respect they deserve - none.

If you are right, then there isn't a club in the AFL with a good image as every one of them has plenty of divers/stagers. Starting with the clown in your avatar.

Disregarding that and Scott which we clearly disagree on (no worries), what is your view on Grima then?

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Can't believe this non-issue has generated 8 pages of posts so far.

Thomas exaggerated a push in the back to get a free.....big whoops.
When they were asked both Scott and Grima said they don't like him staging for frees.....big whoops again.

When is our next game?

 

[Tas]

And they reviewed LTs incident and didn't fine for diving, rather said there was nothing to answer and they were quite right - it was a free anyway.

Regarding harms the image of the club and so on, don't agree. It only harms the image if attention is brought to it - media are vultures, tell them to piss off off rather give them more ammo. As much as I don't always agree with Malthouse, I do like how he treats these idiots with the respect they deserve - none.

If you are right, then there isn't a club in the AFL with a good image as every one of them has plenty of divers/stagers. Starting with the clown in your avatar.

Disregarding that and Scott which we clearly disagree on (no worries), what is your view on Grima then?

You are entitled to your opinion, I just don't agree with any of it.

Grima does media work, he was asked about it. What do you expect him to do, lie? What do you want Scott to do, lie?

I blame Scott because he should have been dragging LT or dropping him for the worst of his diving but never had, if Scott did his job properly then people would have known why he was dragged and why he was dropped and it would have come out sooner or later. Scott's inability to act in a timely manner has just allowed this to fester on for years.

LT should have one simple message, you play it hard and you go hard until you hear the whistle blow, don't exaggerate contact and don't go down to the ground unless you can't physically keep your feet. If you are flopped on your back looking to the umpire for a free kick while the opposition run away with the ball then you get dragged off.

If he had done his job years ago it wouldn't have played out in the media the way it was, it would still have got to the media but it would have been action that did the talking rather than inaction.

 

[Saintly31]

If he had done his job years ago it wouldn't have played out in the media the way it was, it would still have got to the media but it would have been action that did the talking rather than inaction.

Can't you see that is exactly my point? Why are we arguing when we are saying the same thing?

Whether I like LT doing it or not (I don't), I think it highly inappropriate for a coach that has allowed LT to continue it (just like Ablett, Selwood and co) to then chastise him for it. LT has not changed at all despite what people say, he has always tried to exaggerate contact and so do many others. Scott can't have it both ways, especially in this instance.

He is basically having a go at himself, as if he has a problem with it he should be dealing with it as senior coach not agreeing with the media to take the heat off his own failings rather than the player.

ps: As for the "lie" comments. What nonsense. Coaches lie all the time and say they didn't see an incident, not sure where a players injury progress is at, etc etc. In fact I'd say most coaches lie more often than not when giving answers.

 

[Tas]

Can't you see that is exactly my point? Why are we arguing when we are saying the same thing?

Whether I like LT doing it or not (I don't), I think it highly inappropriate for a coach that has allowed LT to continue it (just like Ablett, Selwood and co) to then chastise him for it. LT has not changed at all despite what people say, he has always tried to exaggerate contact and so do many others. Scott can't have it both ways, especially in this instance.

He is basically having a go at himself, as if he has a problem with it he should be dealing with it as senior coach not agreeing with the media to take the heat off his own failings rather than the player.

ps: As for the "lie" comments. What nonsense. Coaches lie all the time and say they didn't see an incident, not sure where a players injury progress is at, etc etc. In fact I'd say most coaches lie more often than not when giving answers.

We are arguing because I don't really see it as a big deal, if Scott did his job and LT was dragged and dropped for diving then the question wouldn't have been put to him how he feels about it because the action would have already answered the question. The media has to ask because there doesn't seem to have been any radical change since he came to the club. One way or another he would still have copped the ire of the media for diving.

He might do it less than he used to, but there is probably incidents every week which go far beyond minor exaggerating contact.

Coach is ultimately responsible for the manner in which the players play the game.

Coaches do lie all the time, but they shouldn't lie. It is a poor reflection on your character if you lie. All you have is your word and your reputation, if you flat out lie then there is no point opening your mouth at any time because nobody can trust that what comes out of your mouth will be the truth. Nobody should expect someone to lie to protect them from criticism.

What he should have said was that his diving is no worse than Selwood who spent more time pleading to the umpire for free kicks than going for the ball, or Pendlebury who is now ducking and diving more than ever since his supply has dried up. If you want to address the diving image you are better off addressing it from the higher profile players. That geelong kid that broke his neck was probably trying to emulate Selwood, he has to take greater responsibility for his actions.

 

[Jimms]

What he should have said was that his diving is no worse than Selwood who spent more time pleading to the umpire for free kicks than going for the ball, or Pendlebury who is now ducking and diving more than ever since his supply has dried up. If you want to address the diving image you are better off addressing it from the higher profile players. That geelong kid that broke his neck was probably trying to emulate Selwood, he has to take greater responsibility for his actions.

no he shouldn't. what is the matter with you?

i don't understand the line of thought of "he was asked a direct question and answered it, what did you want him to say?" go watch a bill belichick press conference ffs