Past #17: Nathan Grima

[Ry009]

Bullshit.

Yeah don't get ya Wellsfan

Reckon there is a massive difference between INITIATING contact, and ACCENTUATING contact.

For which Linsday does the latter and only gets half the ones that are there.

He doesn't need to alter his game for his reputation, screw what the footy world thinks, he just needs to make minor changes to his game for his own game and the team's benefit.

Does a shitload more good than bad, and some of the tripe that has been trotted out by journos and oxygen thieves on BF has been disgraceful.

 

[hilly]

Interesting month ahead.

 

[royals1922]

Yeah don't get ya Wellsfan

Reckon there is a massive difference between INITIATING contact, and ACCENTUATING contact.

For which Linsday does the latter and only gets half the ones that are there.

He doesn't need to alter his game for his reputation, screw what the footy world thinks, he just needs to make minor changes to his game for his own game and the team's benefit.

Does a shitload more good than bad, and some of the tripe that has been trotted out by journos and oxygen thieves on BF has been disgraceful.

Numbers suggest that he's up there with the best small forwards in the game ATM but has never been recognised as such because of the negative stuff he does.

 

[Black2Blue]

Interesting month ahead.

Too true hilly.

Probably needs a new poll thread.

1. North finds it's mojo and heads into a home final on the back of 4 solid wins.
2. North scrapes into the finals as it continues its roller coaster form.
3. North capitulate, tumble out of the finals, leading to North Big Footy posters burning down the cafe at Arden St.
4. None of the above.
5. All of the above.

 

[Tas]

People are completely missing the point ^^.

The issue is not about whether LT should or shouldn't stage/dive. Or if we accept he does, whether he should stop it or cut it back or whatever.

The reason people are disappointed is that he is being hung, drawn and quartered by the media due to comments made by his own coach and teammate (for something plenty of other players do, where their coach and teammates back them up constantly and/or deal internally if need be.)

Scott was out of line to make it a media storm again and take the focus off himself by responding to the question in that manner, and Grima should just concern himself with getting a kick rather than criticizing LT.

No, the point is to do the right thing irrespective what others do. It is the Lance Armstrong approach of doing drugs because everyone else was doing it, it is a piss poor excuse to not do the right thing. If others want to cheat to win then let the shit stain be on their career, never lower yourself to their standard.

 

[hilly]

Numbers suggest that he's up there with the best small forwards in the game ATM but has never been recognised as such because of the negative stuff he does.

That's like saying Tony Lockett shouldn't be recognised as a great player.

 

[Saintly31]

No, the point is to do the right thing irrespective what others do. It is the Lance Armstrong approach of doing drugs because everyone else was doing it, it is a piss poor excuse to not do the right thing. If others want to cheat to win then let the shit stain be on their career, never lower yourself to their standard.

That's is a side issue again and not the point of the thread.

Plenty of players don't do the "right thing", whether it is play for frees, make a terrible decision, squib a contest and so on. It is not the place in the media to discuss individuals in that manner.

And in any case, for as long as all the others are playing for frees (whether by diving, ducking, throwing arms back or whatever) without any intervention by the league it is wrong to call what LT did "cheating".

I also note the AFL reviewed LT's incident and said he had nothing to answer for.

 

[Tas]

That's is a side issue again and not the point of the thread.

Plenty of players don't do the "right thing", whether it is play for frees, make a terrible decision, squib a contest and so on. It is not the place in the media to discuss individuals in that manner.

And in any case, for as long as all the others are playing for frees (whether by diving, ducking, throwing arms back or whatever) without any intervention by the league it is wrong to call what LT did "cheating".

I also note the AFL reviewed LT's incident and said he had nothing to answer for.

He had hands in the back so it was not like he he got a free kick that wasn't warranted. The problem is he dove and put himself out of the contest, if the umpire didn't give him the free kick then we lose the opportunity to have a shot on goal. It doesn't matter if someone hits you with a clothes-liner, you try and mark the ball to the best of your ability.

The way you go about it is just as important as the result. Selwood will never have the reputation of the greats, he is a flat out cheat who ducks his head and whines to the umpires every time he doesn't get a free kick. I don't want any North players to have that kind of reputation.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

The way you go about it is just as important as the result. Selwood will never have the reputation of the greats, he is a flat out cheat who ducks his head and whines to the umpires every time he doesn't get a free kick. I don't want any North players to have that kind of reputation.

He is seen as a champion in spite of his ducking. He is lauded for it. His whinging is of epic proportions. It verges on tears.

 

[royals1922]

That's like saying Tony Lockett shouldn't be recognised as a great player.

No one also said life was fair and like it or not Thomas has been tagged as a cheat.

 

[Heaps of fun]

Joel Selwood's perfected the art of ducking to the point of statistical domination and that's "good play" (according to Darce).

20 of the bravest drug cheats you'll ever see run out for Essendon every weekend.

The Swans build Bloods Culture on a 9.8% salary cap advantage.

^^^^Good blokes.

One stringy bloke from a small club exaggerates contact made after earning a free.

^^^^Disgusting blight on the game.

 

[Saintly31]

He had hands in the back so it was not like he he got a free kick that wasn't warranted. The problem is he dove and put himself out of the contest, if the umpire didn't give him the free kick then we lose the opportunity to have a shot on goal. It doesn't matter if someone hits you with a clothes-liner, you try and mark the ball to the best of your ability.

The way you go about it is just as important as the result. Selwood will never have the reputation of the greats, he is a flat out cheat who ducks his head and whines to the umpires every time he doesn't get a free kick. I don't want any North players to have that kind of reputation.

Tas I don't know if you are deliberately doing it or not, but again that is not the topic of the thread and is not relevant.

Rather, do you think Scott and Grima were correct to discuss LT in the media in the manner they did? Do you think there is any positive outcome in taking this path if they do indeed have an issue with LT?

ps: Your Selwood call is way off. He is admired beyond what I think he deserves to be and this is despite his playing for frees and whinging to Umps.

 

[Tas]

Tas I don't know if you are deliberately doing it or not, but again that is not the topic of the thread and is not relevant.

Rather, do you think Scott and Grima were correct to discuss LT in the media in the manner they did? Do you think there is any positive outcome in taking this path if they do indeed have an issue with LT?

ps: Your Selwood call is way off. He is admired beyond what I think he deserves to be and this is despite his playing for frees and whinging to Umps.

LT's diving is not on topic?

I don't have an issue with any player or coach commenting on this image. He needs to stop diving and if the words to him behind closed doors hasn't done the trick then perhaps this will. Scott Thompson was baked in the media for being an annoying niggler and he copped a lot of criticism about it and he decided he didn't want to be remembered as just an annoying defender, he still does annoying things to forwards but he cut out a lot of the stooging and became a better player for it, well, prior to this year at least. :stern look

Should we talk about all of the players faults in the media? I don't think so, but this kind of thing doesn't just hurt his image, it hurts the club's image as well and it has dragged on for way too long so perhaps dealing with it in-house isn't getting the job done, perhaps he needs to understand how he is looked at from the outside and if that is how he wants to be remembered.

He is one of the best smaller forwards going around, he could be the best if his focus is solely on winning the contest rather than going to ground whenever there is body contact.

 

[trueroo]

Lindsay is being wrongly criticised !!!!!
if you look at the video , he has set himself to leap and launched himself at the ball
he is pushed as he takes the prep step then jumps- sprawls
I bet he is spewing at the criticism and especially from his own team
a biomechanics specialist would be the best judge
I am not a great Lindsay fan but fair is fair

 

[Horace]

Mr Scott seems to be fraying at the seams a little. He used to defiantly stand up for our players to the hilt, even if they are standing there holding the blood-covered knife over the dismembered corpse. But to target LT publicly, especially when he has been flying the flag (nearly broke his bloody neck), kicking the goals, and bleeding for the club, is a massive black mark in my book. I didn't like the dive and it is the only part of Lindsay's game that frustrates me, a bit like Boomer's back chatting with umpires, but while I would like to see him drop the habit, it is frankly water off a ducks back in comparison to the the great things he brings to the team and the bigger faults of many in the side re. their attitude and efforts on the field. Shame Brad. Shame Narni.

I would suggest that LT dives and Boomer complains because the umpires do not officiate the game properly from the word go. LT gets held offthe ball and scragged all the time. The umps should be on the look out for this from the opening bounce. They should immediately blow the whistle and pay a free and the holding will stop. And this goes for every forward in the comp who cops this sort of treatment. I suspect that LT works on the basis that if there is an incident like the Kelly push in the back comes along, make the most of it because it makes up for all those that the umps miss (or ignore).

Boomer is in the same boat. Opposition teams know that if they can put him off early in any game through illegal holds, pushes, punches, he is likely to take matters into his own hands and as is almost always the case as the retaliator, gets pinged. Again is is up to the umps to look for this early in the game. Blow the whistle and pay a free and the rot will stop. And again this should apply for all players in the comp who get this treatment.

 

[Horace]

LT's diving is not on topic?

I don't have an issue with any player or coach commenting on this image. He needs to stop diving and if the words to him behind closed doors hasn't done the trick then perhaps this will. Scott Thompson was baked in the media for being an annoying niggler and he copped a lot of criticism about it and he decided he didn't want to be remembered as just an annoying defender, he still does annoying things to forwards but he cut out a lot of the stooging and became a better player for it, well, prior to this year at least. :stern look

Should we talk about all of the players faults in the media? I don't think so, but this kind of thing doesn't just hurt his image, it hurts the club's image as well and it has dragged on for way too long so perhaps dealing with it in-house isn't getting the job done, perhaps he needs to understand how he is looked at from the outside and if that is how he wants to be remembered.

He is one of the best smaller forwards going around, he could be the best if his focus is solely on winning the contest rather than going to ground whenever there is body contact.

Well I do not normally criticise the coach but on this occasion I believe he has erred. The late great Allan Jeans had a philosophy that you never bag your players publicly. Instead you support them in front of the world, but behind closed doors is where you talk to them and clearly spell out the errors of their ways. There is a famous story about an incident with Dipper at Hawthorn handled in this way.

I think that Brad has been remarkably good at following this approach and hopefully this is just a slip up. There is a lot of psychology required by coaches if they are to get the best out of their players.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

He needs to stop diving and if the words to him behind closed doors hasn't done the trick then perhaps this will.

This is why I don't have an issue with what was said.

There was a presser ages ago (may have even been last year) where Brad was asked about LTs diving and he said that they had discussed it internally and would continue to. Short and simple.

Obviously the internal talk didn't change anything.

Well I do not normally criticise the coach but on this occasion I believe he has erred. The late great Allan Jeans had a philosophy that you never bag your players publicly. Instead you support them in front of the world, but behind closed doors is where you talk to them and clearly spell out the errors of their ways.

But he cops shit from pillar to post for doing exactly that. "Too soft on the players", "needs to give them a public spray", "Doesn't have the personality to be tough in public"

 

[True North]

Going for a Long Jump national Title was good tv.

Athletics Australia might fund LT's tilt at Rio 2016.

Yep, the free was there, nope, Brad2016 shouldn't have potted him so openly and with such honesty. Just sanction him behind closed doors and say you didn't see the incident in the presser.

 

[Wells Now Williams Fan]

Yeah don't get ya Wellsfan

Reckon there is a massive difference between INITIATING contact, and ACCENTUATING contact.

For which Linsday does the latter and only gets half the ones that are there.

He doesn't need to alter his game for his reputation, screw what the footy world thinks, he just needs to make minor changes to his game for his own game and the team's benefit.

Does a shitload more good than bad, and some of the tripe that has been trotted out by journos and oxygen thieves on BF has been disgraceful.

Mate, I am telling you he does both. Are you trying to tell me he doesn't collapse to the ground looking for an in the back decision with

any hint of someone tackling him from behind?

I played country footy for 30 years and recognise someone who plays, stages or tries to milk free kicks and LT is one of them.

You will find small forwards are top of the ladder at doing this always a reward (free inside 50m) outweighs the risk.

Defenders can't risk going to ground as the Risk is huge (No free it costs you a goal).

I will give you the names others in the AFL who do the same........

Angus Monfries
Hayden Ballantyne
Robbie Gray
Brent Stanton
Luke Shuey

 

[royals1922]

Joel Selwood's perfected the art of ducking to the point of statistical domination and that's "good play" (according to Darce).

20 of the bravest drug cheats you'll ever see run out for Essendon every weekend.

The Swans build Bloods Culture on a 9.8% salary cap advantage.

^^^^Good blokes.

One stringy bloke from a small club exaggerates contact made after earning a free.

^^^^Disgusting blight on the game.

Life isn't fair. Lindsay has to suck it up, accept that to get more kudos, he has to change and then ..... actually change.

Bitching about how unfair it is, doesn't change a thing.

 

[Horace]

No, the point is to do the right thing irrespective what others do. It is the Lance Armstrong approach of doing drugs because everyone else was doing it, it is a piss poor excuse to not do the right thing. If others want to cheat to win then let the shit stain be on their career, never lower yourself to their standard.

Hardly in the same category. *lance *armstrong was a drug cheat. *essendon fc is a drug cheating football club (irrelevant here but still needed to be said).

The facts are that Kelly pushed LT in the back to prevent him getting to the contest. The umpire blew the whistle as soon as Kelly pushed, not after LT hit the ground. The side on vision of this is clear and (amazingly) the umpire was in the right spot.

LT was doing what every other footballer does, and that is trying to make sure he got the correct benefit from the illegal act committed by Kelly. ie You are not allowed to prevent someone from having a legitimate chance to take possession of the pill.

If LT is to be castigated for making sure the umpire saw the free, then why aren't we calling out those players who claim they have touched a shot at goal? That's regarded as funny and indeed quite worthy (in terms of the Bob Murphy rascal call).

 

[hilly]

I also note the AFL reviewed LT's incident and said he had nothing to answer for.

That's been overlooked..

 

[Tas]

Hardly in the same category. *lance *armstrong was a drug cheat. *essendon fc is a drug cheating football club (irrelevant here but still needed to be said).

The facts are that Kelly pushed LT in the back to prevent him getting to the contest. The umpire blew the whistle as soon as Kelly pushed, not after LT hit the ground. The side on vision of this is clear and (amazingly) the umpire was in the right spot.

LT was doing what every other footballer does, and that is trying to make sure he got the correct benefit from the illegal act committed by Kelly. ie You are not allowed to prevent someone from having a legitimate chance to take possession of the pill.

If LT is to be castigated for making sure the umpire saw the free, then why aren't we calling out those players who claim they have touched a shot at goal? That's regarded as funny and indeed quite worthy (in terms of the Bob Murphy rascal call).

I am not referring to the Kelly incident, just in general. At times he goes when there hasn't been any infringement. There were hands on his back which is a stupid but free kick, but he didn't launch LT the way he launched. Had he not been awarded the free kick, he would been flat on his face out of the contest and there wouldn't have been a second effort, this is the crux of my problem with 'cheating' you are cheating your team mates by putting yourself out of the contest.

I don't think he should be judged based on that one incident, but he just plays for kicks at times a lot harder than he plays to win the ball and that is wrong. I wasn't comparing LT's indiscretion with other cheats, I said you shouldn't set your standards based on what standards others deem to be acceptable.

 

[Tas]

This is why I don't have an issue with what was said.

There was a presser ages ago (may have even been last year) where Brad was asked about LTs diving and he said that they had discussed it internally and would continue to. Short and simple.

Obviously the internal talk didn't change anything.



But he cops shit from pillar to post for doing exactly that. "Too soft on the players", "needs to give them a public spray", "Doesn't have the personality to be tough in public"

He does need to be tougher, even his players said they expected him to be tougher and he should be. Players are getting what they want, some honesty and home truths. I think if things are going fine and you have a small slip up there is no need to pot a player or air dirty laundry, but we have systemic problems which are both structurally related and effort related. You can see from the replay there were numerous examples in every quarter where a player didn't go hard enough, didn't go with his man hard enough defensively and a fair few are from experienced players who should know better.

We have much bigger problems than LTs diving but we have to ask each player individually do they really want success and how hard are they prepared to work for success... then show them the video low lights and ask why didn't go you hard in this example and that example, etc and find out if people are switched on mentally or not.

We need to revert more to man-on-man footy to really highlight the weak links in the chain, this zone footy where players give up and point for someone else to do the hard running is sheer bullshit, the zone isn't going to work if people are shirking their responsibilities.

 

[snapperbowler]

I blame Adam Gilchrist for this as he started this whole being honest on the playing arena. I am sure Jack is also to blame in some way as well.