2004 list revisit - compare the pair

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Pessimistic

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https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2004/hawthorn. Average games 63 average age 23.7

Top 22 players in terms of games played - but still there in the 2008 flag:Williams Croad Mitchell Brown Osborne Hodge Campbell Bateman Crawford
23-27 on the list in terms of games played. Barker Dixon Hay piccione kane
Below 28 but still in 2008 flag: Sewell Boyle ladson - in this list only six players had played games that year

https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2021/hawthorn average games 67 average age 24.4

No hindsight of the 2024 flag for the 2021 list, but players 23-27 are Lewis Hanrahan Ceglar Brockman Greaves
Notables below 28th (games played for season)Bramble Day Reeves Grainger-Barass Gunston Sicily - 12 players have had games in 2021


Hard to really quantify how many match winners will emerge from 2021 as with the hindsight of 2008, but Im pretty sure the depth and list balance/age is better

we won’t receive priority picks like 04-05-06 but I reckon we won’t squander half of them either. Mature trading in/out is much more practical nowadays

just for the record Hawks finished 10th in 2002 9th in 2003 and 15th in 2004
 
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H00t

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https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2004/hawthorn. Average games 63 average age 23.7

Top 22 players in terms of games played - but still there in the 2008 flag:Williams Croad Mitchell Brown Osborne Hodge Campbell Bateman Crawford
23-27 on the list in terms of games played. Barker Dixon Hay piccione kane
Below 28 but still in 2008 flag: Sewell Boyle ladson - in this list only six players had played games that year

https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2021/hawthorn average games 67 average age 24.4

No hindsight of the 2024 flag for the 2021 list, but players 23-27 are Lewis Hanrahan Ceglar Brockman Greaves
Notables below 28th (games played for season)Bramble Day Reeves Grainger-Barass Gunston Sicily - 12 players have had games in 2021


Hard to really quantify how many match winners will emerge from 2021 as with the hindsight of 2008, but Im pretty sure the depth and list balance/age is better

we won’t receive priority picks like 04-05-06 but I reckon we won’t squander half of them either. Mature trading in/out is much more practical nowadays

just for the record Hawks finished 10th in 2002 9th in 2003 and 15th in 2004
It’s pretty crazy how a draft haul of Buddy, Roughie and Lewis turned it around and added a lot of talent to our list.

I think we definitely have a stronger list now. In terms of older talent. The challenge is getting as much young talent in as the 2004 list was able to in the coming years.
 

Pessimistic

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I’m sure getting buddy, rough and Lewis in one draft won’t happen again (ignoring the fact social media was very unkind to this at the time)

but buddy rough lewis as well as Ellis dowler thorp from 6 top ten picks? It’s 3.5/6 which is average for top 10 picks: young, Birchall, bailey, Guerra gilham suckling taken later

Day and DGB already on the list
 

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Pessimistic

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Also 2001 vfl premiers included Osborne Williams bateman Sam mitchell Campbell picione hawks played an AFL prelim that year and the only players from that game still in the list in 2008 were croad and Crawford
2018nvfl premiers included O’Brien Jiath nash hanrahan Lewis Moore Worpel cousins - was a very creditable finals performance

So 2025 then?
 

Davo-27

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lets compare lists, similar players and then the rest

2004 - 2021

Everitt = Ceglar
Hay = Hartigan
Tallis = Cousins
Williams = Breust
Jacobs = Howe
Bateman = Bramble
J.Smith = Burgoyne
Lonie = Greaves
Hodge = Day
Ries = Morrison
Brennan = Morris
Ladson = Brockman
Dixon = Gunston
Vandenberg = Phillips
Kane = Maginness
Thompson = Lewis
Croad = Frost
Clarke = Hanrahan
Barker = Kosi
Sewell = Worpel
Greene = Saunders
Brown = Hardwick
Ball = Pepper
Lekkas = JOM
Campbell = McEvoy
Osborne = Moore
Dawson = Hartley
Boyle = Jeka
Rix = Brooksby
Beaumont = TOB
Scott = Nash


the left overs for 2004
Holland, Sam Mitchell, Crawford (Good) Picioane, Cox, Miller, Clifton, Shelton, Bergin, Thurgood
the left overs for 2021
Wingard, Impey, Scrimshaw, Titch, Reeves, CJ, DGB (Good) Seamus Mitchell

so it looks like were in a slightly better spot, with smaller list size, just need some quality injected into the mids and a draft haul of Buddy, Rough and Lewis would help too.
 
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Pessimistic

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Like that very much. Is Day Hodge or Mitchell?

it looks like the 2021 is a year advanced on 2004 in terms of rebuild (allowing a hindsight fudge), but the addition of buddy rough Lewis in 2004 draft compared to picks 2, 20 and 22 in 2021 might have them more on a par through 2022. Need to nail 2022 and 2023 drafts better than 05 and 06 - leading to a list which could maybe run close in 2024-25 (07-08)

the club ‘knows how to do this, but the personnel from 08 for IP? Vandenburg, Mitchell, Kennett (even though kennet was not singing from the song sheet 05-07
 

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Dominic03

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Yeah I don't the many similarities between those players.
Day is class, kicks both feet, has speed, will likely move to a wing and into the guts when or if his body gets there. Be that classy time and space player that Sam was, but also the leadership.

Dimma is Hodge all over imo, honestly could chuck Hardwick as a mid and he would honestly make it, only thing different really is the fact Hodge was taller and was a left footer.
 

H00t

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Day is class, kicks both feet, has speed, will likely move to a wing and into the guts when or if his body gets there. Be that classy time and space player that Sam was, but also the leadership.

Dimma is Hodge all over imo, honestly could chuck Hardwick as a mid and he would honestly make it, only thing different really is the fact Hodge was taller and was a left footer.
No disrespect to Dimma, but Hodge was a number of levels above him as a footballer and a leader. Plus Hodge could play everywhere on the ground.

Mitch was way more inside than Day. And one hell of a player. Day will be a very good player. Long, long way to go to get to Mitch’s level though. Apart from being great kicks there is very little similar between Mitchell and Day. Even their kicks are different.

I just don’t see either comparison
 

Pessimistic

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No disrespect to Dimma, but Hodge was a number of levels above him as a footballer and a leader. Plus Hodge could play everywhere on the ground.

Mitch was way more inside than Day. And one hell of a player. Day will be a very good player. Long, long way to go to get to Mitch’s level though. Apart from being great kicks there is very little similar between Mitchell and Day. Even their kicks are different.

I just don’t see either comparison
day could be the ‘quarterback’ (hate that lol) playmaker that Sammy was. But yes, a different player. We already seem less inventive when he’s not on the team
 

Dominic03

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No disrespect to Dimma, but Hodge was a number of levels above him as a footballer and a leader. Plus Hodge could play everywhere on the ground.

Mitch was way more inside than Day. And one hell of a player. Day will be a very good player. Long, long way to go to get to Mitch’s level though. Apart from being great kicks there is very little similar between Mitchell and Day. Even their kicks are different.

I just don’t see either comparison
Dimma and Hodge are extremely similar as Defenders barring the left foot and height and that Dimma can lockdown better.

Leadership we cant judge till Dimma is a VC or C (can see it 100%)

Sam and Day for mine arent similar similar players, i'd compare Day more to a Pendles but the time space, elite kicking possible inside mid with leadership is where i get it from.
 

HODGEYROAD

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No disrespect to Dimma, but Hodge was a number of levels above him as a footballer and a leader. Plus Hodge could play everywhere on the ground.

Mitch was way more inside than Day. And one hell of a player. Day will be a very good player. Long, long way to go to get to Mitch’s level though. Apart from being great kicks there is very little similar between Mitchell and Day. Even their kicks are different.

I just don’t see either comparison
Yeah I'm taking nothing away from Dimma who is a very good footballer and Day who could be anything after he has played 70-80 games, but I just don't see the comparison with Mitchell and Hodge respectively.
 

H00t

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Dimma and Hodge are extremely similar as Defenders barring the left foot and height and that Dimma can lockdown better.

Leadership we cant judge till Dimma is a VC or C (can see it 100%)

Sam and Day for mine arent similar similar players, i'd compare Day more to a Pendles but the time space, elite kicking possible inside mid with leadership is where i get it from.
Dimma is a good lockdown defender. He doesn’t change the defence like Hodge did though. Hodge read the play so well and teams generally had to play around him as he took dangerous space away from the opposition. The lack of speed might be similar but I think hodge would still have been a step quicker.

I don’t think we will see someone of Hodges leadership characteristics in the league for a while, from people on here who’ve seen him from 12 onwards he was just a natural born leader. From the moment he was drafted it was only a matter of time until he was captain.

Hodge and Mitchell are all time greats, very few have ever been on their level.
 

H00t

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day could be the ‘quarterback’ (hate that lol) playmaker that Sammy was. But yes, a different player. We already seem less inventive when he’s not on the team
Agree wholeheartedly, Day already makes us a much better team. Day sees the play unfolding and takes better options going forward than our other players, it lets us get the ball of our half backline cleanly.

If only all our players had Day’s foot skills and vision
 

Pessimistic

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Agree wholeheartedly, Day already makes us a much better team. Day sees the play unfolding and takes better options going forward than our other players, it lets us get the ball of our half backline cleanly.

If only all our players had Day’s foot skills and vision
give us ‘just one. More. day’
 

Pessimistic

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Dimma is a good lockdown defender. He doesn’t change the defence like Hodge did though. Hodge read the play so well and teams generally had to play around him as he took dangerous space away from the opposition. The lack of speed might be similar but I think hodge would still have been a step quicker.

I don’t think we will see someone of Hodges leadership characteristics in the league for a while, from people on here who’ve seen him from 12 onwards he was just a natural born leader. From the moment he was drafted it was only a matter of time until he was captain.

Hodge and Mitchell are all time greats, very few have ever been on their level.
the only knock on hodge was his wasted early years, but he certainly made up for it at the other end of the career. Bigfooty posters were genuinely afraid we’d seen the best of him c2012

we need to avoid to waste a pick going forward on someone to tread water
 
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