2004 Round 17 - Worestest performance ever?

[outback jack]

Jack - how do you know he wasn't in the picture about the other coaching positions? Do you know if they approached his management or not? No, you don't and neither do we - it is just conjecture on both our behalfs.

You are the one that started this thing on having a 'spark' to be a good coach. I am interested in if you have ever done any coaching yourself? I wll put my hand up to say that yes I have done some coaching, who else has?

Ever been involved in the recruitment of someone to a company Jack? There are rules that have to be followed, employment law etc and that does take time unless you are happy for our club (which is also a business btw) to go about things in an illegal manner. I would prefer that they did take some time to get the right person for the job. That 'process' also weeded out those that really weren't interested in our club, so I have no problems with that.

And I had no problems following arrowman's post as I have been reading this whole thread for a while. Anyone else have a problem following it?

hello nikkinoo,

i am assuming with great confidence that he wasnt in the pic for any other positions.

Yes i talked about spark, but the arrowman was being cynical about it.

No i have never coached. Have had one really good coach and lots of not so good coaches, and there’s a big difference to me.

No i havent been involved in a recruitment to a company, but i will say this is a little different. For low positions, i agree with checking out all the options and looking at the talent available. However, as we get up higher in the chain, you find often that people are headhunted for positions, due to their respected status in that particular area or field. I believe that neil craig was a shoe in for the position, so his mates decided to have a 'process' instead of headhunting what was widely considered the best talent available.

Anyway, it is done now, rightly or wrongly, lets see him perform.

 

[NikkiNoo]

hello nikkinoo,

i am assuming with great confidence that he wasnt in the pic for any other positions.

Yes i talked about spark, but the arrowman was being cynical about it.

No i have never coached. Have had one really good coach and lots of not so good coaches, and there’s a big difference to me.

No i havent been involved in a recruitment to a company, but i will say this is a little different. For low positions, i agree with checking out all the options and looking at the talent available. However, as we get up higher in the chain, you find often that people are headhunted for positions, due to their respected status in that particular area or field. I believe that neil craig was a shoe in for the position, so his mates decided to have a 'process' instead of headhunting what was widely considered the best talent available.

Anyway, it is done now, rightly or wrongly, lets see him perform.

assumptions can bite alot of people on the bum jack As I said before we don't know if his management was approached first and they said no - I do know that the main reason he knocked the west coast job back was family reasons, not that they didn't want him (exact opposite)

On the job recruitment front - even for those higher up the food chains yes people are head hunted but there is always a process to follow (been involved in some HR work myself so often it may not appear that there was a process when in fact there is). I am happy with what the club did, I can see where they were going and am not disapointed in NC as the choice. You keep saying we have to wait and see but you have not, from what I see from your posts, you take every chance you get to sink the boot in without giving the club the benefit of the doubt or wait for the real stuff.

 

[macca23]

assumptions can bite alot of people on the bum jack As I said before we don't know if his management was approached first and they said no - I do know that the main reason he knocked the west coast job back was family reasons, not that they didn't want him (exact opposite)

On the job recruitment front - even for those higher up the food chains yes people are head hunted but there is always a process to follow (been involved in some HR work myself so often it may not appear that there was a process when in fact there is). I am happy with what the club did, I can see where they were going and am not disapointed in NC as the choice. You keep saying we have to wait and see but you have not, from what I see from your posts, you take every chance you get to sink the boot in without giving the club the benefit of the doubt or wait for the real stuff.

I have to say Nikki that I have to support jack to the degree that IMO the appointment of Craig was definitely done by a flawed process.

Without dredging up all my past thoughts on this matter, and I have appointed many senior executives over the years either by head-hunting or open advert, the way in which Craig was appointed by being able to trial in the role, while others could only verbally present their case, and not always to a full panel, is abnormal to say the least. It smells just a little of a pre-judgement if not an intention to engage him, even if that wasn't the truth at the time.

But that's the past, and Craig did get appointed, whatever the process, be it good or bad. As our coach he must start with a clean slate this year, and with our total support, unless that proves not to be the case, after proper opportunity to prove himself.

I woudn't have appointed him, but he has been and he's certainly got my support.

 

[NikkiNoo]

I have to say Nikki that I have to support jack to the degree that IMO the appointment of Craig was definitely done by a flawed process.

Without dredging up all my past thoughts on this matter, and I have appointed many senior executives over the years either by head-hunting or open advert, the way in which Craig was appointed by being able to trial in the role, while others could only verbally present their case, and not always to a full panel, is abnormal to say the least. It smells just a little of a pre-judgement if not an intention to engage him, even if that wasn't the truth at the time.

But that's the past, and Craig did get appointed, whatever the process, be it good or bad. As our coach he must start with a clean slate this year, and with our total support, unless that proves not to be the case, after proper opportunity to prove himself.

I woudn't have appointed him, but he has been and he's certainly got my support.

giggle - I agree that there were some problems with the process as a whole ie some people presenting to not the full panel (that did worry me a little) but overall I can see that they tried to have an open process as much as could be possible in a town like adelaide where everyone knows everything, but still keep some information close to their chests I think the nature of the club and where it sits in SA they could not have a closed process, the members would have been even more up in arms! I do remember having a discussion with you on this matter previously and we shall just agree to disagree

 

[macca23]

giggle - I agree that there were some problems with the process as a whole ie some people presenting to not the full panel (that did worry me a little) but overall I can see that they tried to have an open process as much as could be possible in a town like adelaide where everyone knows everything, but still keep some information close to their chests I think the nature of the club and where it sits in SA they could not have a closed process, the members would have been even more up in arms! I do remember having a discussion with you on this matter previously and we shall just agree to disagree

Geez, you've got a good memory. I forgot that!! We certainly did have a debate in detail on this one!!

It's all history now, and we move on.

 

[zajicrow]

I dont know his win/loss record, it would be better than craigys. But the point is there was a spark, that feeling you get when you know a coach has it

every AFL coach has to start sometime. You're acting as if Craig has been coaching at AFL level for years and is not good enough for the Crows job.

Im sure in the post season of 1980 when Essendon were looking for a new Coach, the inexperienced "Kevin Sheedy" wasnt their first and most desired choice either

 

[outback jack]

assumptions can bite alot of people on the bum jack As I said before we don't know if his management was approached first and they said no - I do know that the main reason he knocked the west coast job back was family reasons, not that they didn't want him (exact opposite)

On the job recruitment front - even for those higher up the food chains yes people are head hunted but there is always a process to follow (been involved in some HR work myself so often it may not appear that there was a process when in fact there is). I am happy with what the club did, I can see where they were going and am not disapointed in NC as the choice. You keep saying we have to wait and see but you have not, from what I see from your posts, you take every chance you get to sink the boot in without giving the club the benefit of the doubt or wait for the real stuff.

he wasnt even mentioned at the other jobs was he? The only one he may have had a chance was hawthorn. He was not a popular choice for wcoast, everyone knows that. He hadn't actually been given the job remember.

I think there has to be some system in place, but this process was a joke, surely you can admit that.

From what i saw in the last nine games, he didnt deserve to be appointed. He didnt stand out and show he was a match winning coach, so its not putting the boot in, the fact is as yet he is still to impress. This is what makes the process dubious to me.

 

[NikkiNoo]

he wasnt even mentioned at the other jobs was he? The only one he may have had a chance was hawthorn. He was not a popular choice for wcoast, everyone knows that. He hadn't actually been given the job remember.

I think there has to be some system in place, but this process was a joke, surely you can admit that.

From what i saw in the last nine games, he didnt deserve to be appointed. He didnt stand out and show he was a match winning coach, so its not putting the boot in, the fact is as yet he is still to impress. This is what makes the process dubious to me.

are those clubs going to admit that they asked someone to apply or if they are interested and that person said no? I don't think so. So we don't know if he was asked or not. On West Coast - well from what I understand he was actually offered the job, but he said no, and then there were the leaks and the members / boys club wanted Worsfold and they got him, but only after Craig had declined the position.

The last 9 games, well he admited at the start of that tenure that he could not and would not change the game plan, just tinkered with small parts of it. That is all that he could do within that time frame - do you honestly think that a winning game plan can be developed overnight? How long did it take Matthews to get his message across at Brisbane? I think you have very unfair expectations on Craig and are not willing to say or see anything positive at all.

 

[Stiffy_18]

The only coaches who "deserved" to be head hunted were Matthews, Pagan and Sheedy. Everyone else has question marks over them. Someone like Wallace certainly did and I raised those at the time. What he has done over the off-season hasn't eased those "concerns" one bit for me.

Eade also wasn't flawless. You head hunt those who are at the top of their fields. Eade and Wallace are not in that echelom. I think the process whas dodgy but to suggest you headhunt someone like who is not in top tier in his proffesion is ridicilous.

 

[outback jack]

thats true that pagan would be a standout, but you have to take the best option that is available, and Eade and Wallace were it. And why Eade presented to a panel missing one of the main judges, is just about as dodgey as it can get. How eade was less impressive than craigy is a worry to. Football is not like a business, if you rate someone it is not ludicrus to head hunt them, obviously the crows didnt rate wallace or eade or they would have. It would have been nice if they had said this, instead of having a very flawed process instead.

 

[Nige_Bix]

Rubbish

Crows had Tom Gilligan in ruck with Rehn Pittman Keating Robran Chalmers etc all out injured.

It was always anybody's game.

Doesnt matter who plays - any loss to Port is in our worst loss list to me!

But I'd have to say the Brisbane game because of the humiliating capitulation in the 2nd half, closely followed by the West coast 135 point loss and the 93 prelim.