2005

[Arsene Wenger]

Although its very early and there is still much to go in this season, I found myself today pondering as to who may get delisted at the end of the year

I thought the following (note this is pretty ruthless)

HALL
CHAMPION
FORSTER KNIGHT
HARDWICK (to retire)

ANyone wana throw up any other names?

Will GIlham get another go -- I would hope so !

 

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by Arsene Wenger
Although its very early and there is still much to go in this season, I found myself today pondering as to who may get delisted at the end of the year

I thought the following (note this is pretty ruthless)

HALL
CHAMPION
FORSTER KNIGHT
HARDWICK (to retire)

ANyone wana throw up any other names?

Will GIlham get another go -- I would hope so !

I agree with Hall and Champion, but Forster-Knight deserves another chance. If Mahoney is capable of being a regular, then FK should be a star.
If Gilham is delisted then I'm afraid our club is ****ed!

As for others......Wakelin hopefully. I'm happy to take a couple of years of mediocrity to get young defenders (Gilham, Pettigrew) ready.
Oh, and while we're at it, I'd delist Choco. But that's another story!

 

[PJ Power]

One week ago I would have definitely agreed with you Arsene:
Hall
Champion
RFK
Hardwick (retire)

The only one I am not sure about is Champion.

By all accounts he did some nice things last week. A good month of SANFL footy could swing a decision his way, given that Patful, Ellis and Grocke have not done enough to be promoted to strengthen our tall forward stocks.

Pity that Ellis has been out so long. He could have been promoted if he had enough runs on the board.

RFK should go. If we are to believe the reasons for his appointment it was to add depth to our side while younger players were developing. We now know that Cassisi and Ebert are ready for battle next year, while Salopek and Surjan despite their extended lay-offs will be closer to being more established players. In other words we shouldn't be as desperate for depth, but rather be more inclined to play youngsters.

Hall stands no chance.

Gilham couldn't possibly get dropped. They persevered with Toby and Morgan for years before Adam got traded. Gilham promises more than them. The only other possibility is if he was involved in a trade.

Presuming we will add 5 new players to our list next year, I would like to see 2 midfielders, 1 hard small defender (ie Wilson or Waters type), 1 potential key forward and a ruckman, brought to the squad. No small forwards and probably no tall defenders.

 

[Portmanteau]

A few players may be playing for their short-term future come September (that's you, Jarrad Schofield). If last year is any indication, players can go from first XXII football to Delist City... If it means retaining Champion for a short while longer, I'm all for it. RFK could easily be re-drafted.

 

[Russian]

Hall
RFK
Hardwick (retire)
Patfull

Wakelin may be told to retire. Schofield and Poulton could be in the same position as Kingsley last year.

Hassan can't stay on the rookie list and should be promoted. Ellis and Grocke can stay there for another year.

We should go for picks in any go home trades. The best ruckman in the draft would be nice. Apart from that all the draft picks should be used on midfielders. Rookie list another ruckman.

 

[Arsene Wenger]

Thanks fellas

I agree with Hassan's possible promotion -- hes a star in sanfl !

Wakelyn i agree with -- Schoey yes aswell but dont see it happening --

I think Champion should go but whats the bet damon white gets the axe b4 him and patfull

 

[Nod]

I heard that Hassan was upgraded yesterday ?

Doubt if there will be a large change to the list - that happened last season with the addition of 7 seniors and 3 rookies.
Ellis should get a 2nd year on the rookie list.
Champion now injury free starting to play some good footy.

 

[Macca19]

RFK would be on a 2 year contract I beleive. He deserves another year...hes still young, is well built and his year has been ruined by injury. With our ageing defence he could be part of our 'new age' defence coming thru on a back flank.

Who should go?

Hall should be definate. Had plenty of chances, hasnt taken em, gets injured far too often.

Champion. Well he hasnt shown a whole lot in the SANFL this year. Still...at least hes been playing SANFL this year. I remember hearing that Port had been watching him for 2-3 years before we drafted him so he may be a 'favourite' of sorts and the club may give him time to develop.

Ackland will survive the axe again as hes actually shown very good to great ruck form this year. Plus we have no other options.

Hardwick retiring is a given.

Montgomery may give the game away this year too...had a poor year injury wise, is 31, his time may be up.

Id push Wakelin into retirement. We arent going to go forward with him there.

Schofield must be another that should be told he may want a move back to Perth as he wont get many opportunities next year.

If Gilham gets delisted ill be very unhappy. In my opinion he showed the most of our new players in the pre season and only a 3 month injury has stopped him from developing. Hes highly rated and will be a very good player. He may want to be traded back to Melbourne depending if and where his brother gets drafted.

If we can get anything for Cochrane...i say go for it. Wont happen tho.

So:

GONE:
Hall
Champion
Hardwick
Wakelin

POSSIBLES:
Montgomery
Schofield

 

[Macca19]

Rookies:

Promoting Hassan is a possibility...I really really like him as a footballer. But on past decisions he will be dropped at the end of the year.

Ellis...give him another year on the rookie list. Shown very good signs...probably hasnt done enough to warrant promotion tho.

Patfull has gone downhill this year. I cant see him turning into the player hes promised in the juniors or last year.

Grocke - Lots of talent...probably wont be retained.

 

[Portia]

RFK would be on a 2 year contract I beleive. He deserves another year...hes still young, is well built and his year has been ruined by injury. With our ageing defence he could be part of our 'new age' defence coming thru on a back flank.

The only reason I wouldn't delist him would be because of the 2 year contract.

Hall should be definate. Had plenty of chances, hasnt taken em, gets injured far too often.

Yep. He's been lucky to survive cuts for two years already.

Champion. Well he hasnt shown a whole lot in the SANFL this year. Still...at least hes been playing SANFL this year. I remember hearing that Port had been watching him for 2-3 years before we drafted him so he may be a 'favourite' of sorts and the club may give him time to develop.

Yeah, I reckon there would be an outside chance of retention. He's only had two years...cutting him now would be like cutting White before this season.

Montgomery may give the game away this year too...had a poor year injury wise, is 31, his time may be up.

If he decides to though, it'll be his decision. I very much doubt that Choco will be giving him a shove out the door.

Id push Wakelin into retirement. We arent going to go forward with him there.

This would make my off-season.

Schofield must be another that should be told he may want a move back to Perth as he wont get many opportunities next year.

Do you think we could sucker either Perth side into taking him though?

If Gilham gets delisted ill be very unhappy. In my opinion he showed the most of our new players in the pre season and only a 3 month injury has stopped him from developing. Hes highly rated and will be a very good player. He may want to be traded back to Melbourne depending if and where his brother gets drafted.

Thing is, trading period is before the draft, so he wouldn't know where his brother is. As such, I'd expect him to hang around Port for another year if that sort of thing is important - and of course, its always possible that we'll draft his brother. Apparently he's not a Splinter.

If we can get anything for Cochrane...i say go for it. Wont happen tho.

Yeah, no show there.

 

[Russian]

RFK would be on a 2 year contract I beleive.

I doubt it. He doesn't have to be and players who are given lifelines don't usually get 2 years.

Champion. Well he hasnt shown a whole lot in the SANFL this year. Still...at least hes been playing SANFL this year. I remember hearing that Port had been watching him for 2-3 years before we drafted him so he may be a 'favourite' of sorts and the club may give him time to develop.

Exactly my thoughts. He's at about the same stage as Damon last year.

 

[Portia]

In another of those great AFL rulings that they never officially tell the public about, or put up on their website so you can check it out, but some journalists allude to...apparently draftees automatically have a two year contract as of last draft.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

IMO, I think you should trade Dewy. I just think he is the sort of player you dont need and could get something reasonable for him. I know he is second for your goalkicking (if im not mistaken) but he is simply a birst type player.

I dont think you should trade Cochrane. I rate him pretty highly as a player. He does some good tagging jobs sometimes and I think you need him.

 

[Russian]

In another of those great AFL rulings that they never officially tell the public about, or put up on their website so you can check it out, but some journalists allude to...apparently draftees automatically have a two year contract as of last draft.

aflpa.com.au - It's only for first year players

10.3 When a first year draft choice Player is first listed by an AFL Club, that Player and the AFL Club shall enter into a playing contract for a minimum term of two years except in the case of a Player who has previously been listed as a Rookie at any AFL Club.

“First Year Draft Choice Player” means a Player who is listed on the Primary List of an AFL Club who has not previously been:
(a) permanently on or temporarily upgraded to the Primary List of any AFL Club;
or
(b) an eligible Rookie with any AFL Club.

 

[Portia]

Ah, excellent. In that case, seeya RFK! You can maybe stay around if that Daniel Bell trade falls through and we get a deal for Gilham or Peel.

rfctigerarmy - you're right on Dew, we've had him around for 8 seasons now and he really has stalled.

On Cochrane, yeah he's probably worth keeping around as a back up to Kane Cornes, Josh Carr and any other taggers, and if we were using him as that it'd be all good, but like so many players under the Choco regime, if he's on the list Choco will play him every week regardless of need. So when you take into account that Cochrane, when fit, will take a spot in the 22 every week, it really is a better option to delist him.

 

[Portmanteau]

I dont think you should trade Cochrane. I rate him pretty highly as a player. He does some good tagging jobs sometimes and I think you need him.

How do you sleep at night?

 

[Asgardian]

2004 Power squad with guernsey numbers, name, DOB, Age as at 1/3/2005

1 - PRIMUS Matthew 12/1/75, = 30 Keep
2 - WAKELIN Darryl 11/8/74, = 30 Maybe
3 - MONTGOMERY Brett 1/6/73, = 31 Maybe
4 - WANGANEEN Gavin 18/6/73, = 31 Keep
5 - LADE Brendon 10/7/76, = 28 Must Keep
6 - SCHOFIELD Jarrad 30/1/75, = 30 Trade
7 - BURGOYNE Peter 29/1/78, = 27 Must Keep
8 - BURGOYNE Shaun 21/10/82, = 22 Must Keep
9 - CARR Josh 29/4/80, = 24 Must Keep if possible
10 - FRANCOU Josh 7/8/74, = 30 Keep
11 - HARDWICK Damien 18/8/72, = 32 It's official, he's retiring
12 - ACKLAND Cain 16/3/82, = 22 Trade or Delist
13 - HALL Chris 3/3/82, = 22 Delist
14 - FORSTER-KNIGHT Rob 6/4/82, = 22 Keep
15 - PICKETT Byron 11/8/77, = 27 Must Keep
16 - TREDREA Warren 24/12/78, = 26 Must Keep
17 - DEW Stuart 18/8/79, = 25 Keep unless great trade is offered
18 - CORNES Kane 5/1/83, = 22 Must Keep
19 - BISHOP Matthew 11/7/75, = 29 Trade if okay deal offered
20 - BROGAN Dean 14/12/78, = 26 Must Keep
21 - WILSON Michael 21/11/76, = 28 Must Keep
22 - MAHONEY Josh 31/10/77, = 27 Keep
23 - SYMES Brad 7/3/85, = 19 Must Keep
24 - WHITE Damon 16/8/83, = 21 Must Keep
25 - CASSISI Domenic 22/9/82, = 22 Must Keep
26 - COCHRANE Stuart 20/7/78, = 26 Trade if possible
27 - POULTON Jared 21/4/77, = 27 Trade if possible
28 - THURSTANS Toby 14/8/80, = 24 Must Keep
29 - KINGSLEY Adam 20/8/75, = 29 Keep unless good trade is offered
30 - CHAPLIN Troy 23/2/86, = 19 Must Keep
31 - SALOPEK Steven 21/6/85, = 19 Must Keep
32 - GILHAM Stephen 2/9/84, = 20 Must Keep
33 - EBERT Brett 18/11/83, = 21 Must Keep
34 - PEEL Luke 26/6/86, = 18 Keep
35 - CORNES Chad 12/11/79, = 25 Must Keep
36 - PETTIGREW Michael 16/3/85, = 19 Must Keep
37 - CHAMPION Wade 17/1/84, = 21 Trade
38 - JAMES Roger 21/10/75, = 29 Must Keep
39 - SURJAN Jacob 15/8/85, = 19 Must Keep

41 - PATFULL Joel* 7/12/84, 20 Delist
42 - ELLIS Dale* 30/3/83, = 21 Keep as Rookie
43 - GROCKE Adam* 18/7//84, = 20 Keep as Rookie
44 - HASSAN Salim* 28/5/82, = 22 Promote

*rookie


There ya go guys, have a pick at my comments

 

[Eago77]

Hall = gone
RFK = gone
Dimma = Retirement

There are a few that i'd look at trading who we may get something decent for: Dew, & Poults, maybe Ackland although i'd keep him for another year.

The likes of Champion & Gilham would have to be kept.

Schoey & Monty are still much more valuable to us than what we'd get in return for them IMO, as are Wakes & Bishop.

 

[Portia]

Bishop and Monty I agree are more valuable than what we may receive.

Schoey and Wakelin I would argue are not, because a big part of their trade value to us would be that two spots in Choco's 22 would open up for some of our draftees to step into.

 

[Portmanteau]

There ya go guys, have a pick at my comments

Cain Ackland will be kept for ruck depth. Adam Kingsley will certainly be given the oppportunity for back-to-back Norm Smiths.

 

[Eago77]

Bishop and Monty I agree are more valuable than what we may receive.

Schoey and Wakelin I would argue are not, because a big part of their trade value to us would be that two spots in Choco's 22 would open up for some of our draftees to step into.

Schoey will stay on, he may well be forced out of the team at stages next season but hopefully he stays on and fights as it will only strengthen the team. As for Wakes, look, one out he can look hopeless, but as part of a defence that includes, JT, Monty, Wilbur, Bishop & JB he looks pretty good, but he relies heavily on the others. Mind you even Tredders relies on good ball from the midfield to do his job well. I dont think it's time to discard Wakes & Schoey (& monty & bish) just yet. Dimma will move on next year, injuries come and go, there will always be some room for a youngster to make a spot their own if their good enough. As long as Choco rewards players for form rather than name status or past performances we will be alright with our list regeneration.

 

[Portia]

Schoey will stay on, he may well be forced out of the team at stages next season but hopefully he stays on and fights as it will only strengthen the team.

It would strengthen the team if it was a fair fight. Its not.

Once Choco says you're in, you're in for an indefinite amount of time. It seems like any rookie would just about have to challenge for the Rising Star to take Schoey's place...heck, they can't even displace Cochrane.

As for Wakes, look, one out he can look hopeless, but as part of a defence that includes, JT, Monty, Wilbur, Bishop & JB he looks pretty good, but he relies heavily on the others.

So in other words, at any time you are really depending on him to win the contest, he looks hopeless. Name one quality fullback that loses anywhere near this often to their opponent one-on-one.

We need a quality fullback. We might have one, but we won't know. Thurstans & Morgan have shown that spending five years in the SANFL is not a substitute for AFL experience.

As long as Choco rewards players for form rather than name status or past performances we will be alright with our list regeneration.

But he doesn't, which is why Schoey and Wakes have to go.

 

[Eago77]

It would strengthen the team if it was a fair fight. Its not.

Once Choco says you're in, you're in for an indefinite amount of time. It seems like any rookie would just about have to challenge for the Rising Star to take Schoey's place...heck, they can't even displace Cochrane.

So in other words, at any time you are really depending on him to win the contest, he looks hopeless. Name one quality fullback that loses anywhere near this often to their opponent one-on-one.

We need a quality fullback. We might have one, but we won't know. Thurstans & Morgan have shown that spending five years in the SANFL is not a substitute for AFL experience.

But he doesn't, which is why Schoey and Wakes have to go.

Rather than cut & paste...

The first two comments are a reflection on Choco, maybe a little unfair on him, look Choco has the job next year so i think we just have to hope he does make it fair. Obviously each coach has his favourites and past performance is a part of that. But i really find it hard to believe that Wakes & Schoey aren't the best guys for the job at this stage & probably next year.

Next...Porthos, i said CAN look hopeless, not is always hopeless one-out. Lots of full backs get beaten, sure Wakes isn't the best FB in the league but he is far from the worst! Maybe Thrust will make it but i see him as a floater rather than a KPD. For mine Wakes will hold down FB for another year, Bishop may loes his spot down back to Thrust, leaving White & Tredders up forward.

5 years in the SANFL may not equal AFL experience but simply giving Pettigrew/Thrust/Chaplin/Gilham a KP down back might not be the best thing for their development, what's wrong with earing a spot?

There are a lot of players on the list, lots of opportunities through out the year, lots of injuries/suspensions, taking in a list which is too thin on experience would be silly given the chance we have of playing in finals/GF over the next few years. As long as one/two are shifted on each year i reckon that's good enough. Dimma will move on, Pax, Che & Stevens did last year, that's a fair bit of experience gone, you cant replace that easily. Not many young teams win premierships, experience is a key come september.

 

[ClintEastwood]

It is very difficult to go about the process of blooding several youngsters, and playing them enough to know how good they are likely to be, and also stay near the top of the cutthroat AFL ladder. We have been trying quite a few youngies this season, notably Thrust, Ebert and White, as well as some time earlier on for Surjan, and also playing Dom as a regular now. How many more new players can we introduce while still hoping to be in the top 2 or 4? I think if Choco had chosen this year to experiment with youngies in the backlines (and remember, the whole Chad experiment was exactly that for the first half of the season), it would have been too much too soon.

As it is, we have gotten away with giving plenty of game time to 4 new players, and also currently sit 2nd on the ladder with 3 rounds remaining. Wakes is working fine in that backline at the moment.

 

[Portia]

Next...Porthos, i said CAN look hopeless, not is always hopeless one-out. Lots of full backs get beaten, sure Wakes isn't the best FB in the league but he is far from the worst!

So when did that become all that was required to be the Port Adelaide fullback?

Maybe Thrust will make it but i see him as a floater rather than a KPD. For mine Wakes will hold down FB for another year, Bishop may loes his spot down back to Thrust, leaving White & Tredders up forward.

Now you see, I disagree entirely. Bishop has been our second best tall defender this year, so why is it Wakelin that is hanging around in your scheme? I'm pretty sure I saw Bishop beat his man one-on-one on the weekend. I wish I could say the same for Wakes.

5 years in the SANFL may not equal AFL experience but simply giving Pettigrew/Thrust/Chaplin/Gilham a KP down back might not be the best thing for their development, what's wrong with earing a spot?

Nothing is wrong with earning a spot, but still being a rookie at age 23 is not exactly practical in the AFL. How many top flight years are we likely to get out of Thurstans compared to a 20 year old with the same AFL experience?

There are a lot of players on the list, lots of opportunities through out the year, lots of injuries/suspensions, taking in a list which is too thin on experience would be silly given the chance we have of playing in finals/GF over the next few years.

What would be silly would be playing Wakelin for another year or two, dropping him and Bish and then discovering our backups have no experience. How is that better?

As long as one/two are shifted on each year i reckon that's good enough. Dimma will move on, Pax, Che & Stevens did last year, that's a fair bit of experience gone, you cant replace that easily.

I agree, we definitely missed Paxman early. Luckily Chad stepped up and Wilson has played most games.

Not many young teams win premierships, experience is a key come september.

Precisely why we need to give it to our young defenders instead of hoping they'll be able to step up later.

Right now, if Wakelin gets another Bickley in round 22, who steps in?