2009 Draft Discussion

[GarnerSmash]

Yep, and all are new to the club so it was already seen as an area requiring addressing. We're on the right track IMO.

Throw in Warren Benjamin from the same draft. 187cm and 85kg's you can certainly see the strategy taken into the 2008 draft. Would be good to see him come on and get some game time in 2010.

 

[year of the roo]

Geez i dunno Irekon some of our midfielders are quite tall Anthony is 189 Ziebell 188 wright 189 these blokes are 6ft 2-3

Ziebell's height surprised me, I think he looks a bit shorter. But whatever. I'm not sure how much midfield Wright and Benjamin will be playing either.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Wright will be a midfielder in due time. Maybe another year or so. Has been working on his endurance, now just needs to stack on the kilos. Benjamin is still a project player, i expect him to come along the same way ben warren did. Small steps, and eventually burst onto the scene!

 

[year of the roo]

Wright will be a midfielder in due time. Maybe another year or so. Has been working on his endurance, now just needs to stack on the kilos. Benjamin is still a project player, i expect him to come along the same way ben warren did. Small steps, and eventually burst onto the scene!

I didn't say they will be duds, just not midfielders.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Just stating my opinions YRTR. I think Sammy Wright will become a midfielder and i think Warren Benjamin in still a project.

 

[GarnerSmash]

A bit of a different take on criteria for selections at this years draft table.

When looking at the drafting possibilities for 2009 I was thinking about what makes a great team, and what does North need to do to make a great team in the next 3 – 7 years. One thing I think is vital, is for a team to play a heap of football together and develop together as a team. Look at this years Grand Finalists. Both Geelong and St. Kilda had significant amounts of their teams play together for many years before really getting it together. So, as a consequence I decided to look at our list from a 25 years of age and under perspective, for the majority on 2010. The bulk of this team is under 23, with H and Wellsy the only two that will be 25 in 2010. If they progress individually as we hope they do, then they will play a lot of football together.


FB: McMahon - Grima – Thompson

HB: Urquhart – Hansen – White

C: Wells – Ziebell – Anthony

HF: Warren - Josh Smith – Wright

FF: Thomas – Tarrant – Campbell


R: McIntosh – Swallow - Greenwood

INT: Adams – Goldstein - O'Keefe – Garlett


EMG: Benjamin – Lower – Ross

Res: Obst, Speight,

Rookies: Delaney, Meredith

Picks 5, 21, 25, 37, 41, 57.

From this assessment I think it is clear that our backline is in a fantastic position, from both a key position point of view to a small to mid defender and HBF point of view.

Our midfield could use some bolstering, a bit of pace and genuine class is required, although if those here come on as expected (Ziebell, Anthony, Swallow, Greenwood) and Adams, Garlett, Ross , Lower and Benjamin show improvement, we could be alright. Still, it is obvious that we need to draft mids this year.

Rucks are strong, a back up in the next year or two might be a good idea.

The biggest issue, as highlighted above, is KPF’s. Tarrant is an unknown quantity, Smith, well, is limited, O’Keefe looks good, but who knows. Mid and small forwards are in good nick, but it is obvious that we need to get a KPF, and a good one.

Looking at team development and resources, we need to get a good, strong KPF this draft. The questions that the recruiting team need to ask are:

Can we afford to overlook Butcher if available at 5?

Do we have faith that Tarrant is what the club hope him to be? What is plan B if he goes down again?

Do we need an A-grade midfielder more than we need an A-grade KPF?

Will we get sufficient midfield talent at 21 and 25 if we select Butcher at 5?

If we select Rohan or Cunnington at 5, is there sufficient talent in the KPF’s at 21 and 25?

This year the recruiting team will certainly earn their money. This shapes up as a vital draft for the club and I reckon it all revolves around Butcher and how the club sees our forward stocks in 3 – 7 years time, remembering that GC and WS will have the pick of the best for the next few drafts.

I am almost leaning towards taking Butcher, hoping for two of Bastinac, Christiansen, Stevens, Gybsters, Duncan, Taylor, Colyer, Melksham etc at 21 and 25.

On another note, considering the youth of this list, potentially 32 guys + rookies under 23, a great move by the club the get Jon Haine on the books. Well done to the person with the foresight to get such a well respected junior developer to the club.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Good post B-Tron.

I look forward to the fact that these guys are going to play a lot of football together, in the future. I think that will be on of the key stepping stones to our success in the future.

This years draft will be pivotol, with GC and WS coming in, but i still think the draft pools will be good in the coming years because we'll have all the 17 year olds back again.

As far as this draft is concerned, i still think Butcher is too much of a risk at pick 5. Essentially, all football nowadays is one in the midfield. Geelong have scoring power without having a superstar forward line. So the need to draft Butcher IMO is not as high as some people believe. We have a lot of scoing power, in Petrie, Warren, Campbell and Thomas. If Tarrant can come along then we will be looking the goods.

Our midfield lacks serious class. I know everyone thinks that Wells will come good and be consistant, but i don't think that will happen. We need another mid who can gather a lot of quality possessions and have impact on the scoreboard. Ziebell and Swallow can provide the inside hard stuff and Pick 5 can either release Ziebell to play an outside role or he can himself. I can't take to the idea of Rohan at pick 5. I think Cunnington or Lucas is too hard to overlook, both have more mature bodies and are more consistant.

With that in mind I personally think we should take a KP with pick 21 or 25. But if Black, Panos, Griffiths, Talia, or Carlisle are gone, then we should just take the best available. We can look at picking up a KP in the later rounds. Another lead-up forward in the Corey Jones style wouldn't go astray either. Nate Fyfe and Troy Taylor would be the ones who'd i'd love to have fill that position.

In my perfect world this is how it'd go:

Pick 5: Ben Cunnington/Kane Lucas or a possible slider in Martin/Marobito

Pick 21: KP in Ben Griffiths or Panos. If they arent available then get a mid. Ryan Bastinac, Jordan Gysberts or Jake Melksham.

Pick 25: Mid or HFF. Ryan Bastinac, Andrew Moore, Mitch Duncan or Nate Fyfe

Pick 37:If we go with mids with our first three picks then I'd be getting Joel Houghton, David Astbury or Serhat Temel. If we pick up a KP then I wouldn't mind if we picked up someone with a bit of X-factor and speed. I.e Derrick Wanganeen, Jospeh Dare or Jasper McMillan Pittard

Pick 41:Barlow/Sewell/Thorp- Would even look at picking up Thorp earlier. Could be a better prospect than some of the raw KP's in this years draft.

Pick 53: Mid.

 

[Twinkletoes]

Good detailed and thoughtful posts lads. I just want the bloody drafts to happen NOW!

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Although i love talking about drafts/trades, i do wish it would bloody happen soon.

I think the draft should be a bit earlier, so that the new draftees can get down to the club earlier and do a full pre-season.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Although i love talking about drafts/trades, i do wish it would bloody happen soon.

I think the draft should be a bit earlier, so that the new draftees can get down to the club earlier and do a full pre-season.

I agree RF08, and good detailed post in reply to mine. My concern is what happens if Drew goes down at any point in the next few years for a season, and Tarrant does not come on. WS and GC will take all the top notch KP's early in the next couple of drafts or sign them up beforehand, leaving little quality for the rest of the league to fight over.
I agree regarding Geelong and their midfield being their key, but sheesh, Ling, Ablett, Selwood, Corey, Bartel etc. are outstanding individually. We will not get that quality in our midfield, so I think a top notch KPF is required. A 60 - 80 a year goal kicker will lessen the reliance on our mids to win the ball and score the goals too.
Other than Butcher their appears to be a lack of KPF's in this draft with genuine class. Griffiths might be one but injury has prevented him from consistently showing this. I for one would not be too concerned if we picked him at 21 if we go with a mid at 5. If we can keep him on the park he could be Tippetesque.
Interesting your comments re Kane Lucas. I was thinking the same thing just yesterday. A lot to like about a 6'3 runner (we need outside runners) with outstanding agility and a good footy brain. Also like his frame. He is skinny atm but quite broad across the shoulders and looks like he will fill out well.
Wouldn't be disappointed to get him at 5 thb.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

I know what you mean about Petrie going down. Thats why I definately would look at getting at least 1 KP in this years draft. I mean we still do have Hale, Josh Smith, Hansen and O'Keefe.

Lucas has slipped a little bit this year. At the start of the year he was considered to be a top 5 pick but now he could be anywhere from 5-12. I rate him and always have. He has excellent leadership, wins his own ball and has excellent finishing skills. He had some cracker games in the WAFL finals this year, a couple of 30+ possession games. He is pretty effective too, even though people have query's on his kicking ability.

Griffiths IMO, is the one we need to get but if he, Black or Panos aren't around then we should just go with mids, because there is no other KP who is worthy to be taken around pick 21 and 25. (Assuming Talia and Carlisle are gone too). If thats the case then just pick up some mids or some HF's with a bit of flair (Duncan, Taylor or Fyfe). We can look at getting some raw KP's later on in the draft in the mould of Houghton, Tighe, Temel, Astbury or even Mitch Thorp.

If the draft is looking that bad for KP's then I'd even consider drafting Matt McGuire and dumping him in the goal square to see how he goes. I know he is a defender but he kicked some bags in the VFL this year, and I think with another pre-season under his belt i think he can get back to the pre-broken leg form a couple of years back, where he was rated as one of the best young KP's in the league.

 

[Rippednew1]

I agree RF08, and good detailed post in reply to mine. My concern is what happens if Drew goes down at any point in the next few years for a season, and Tarrant does not come on. WS and GC will take all the top notch KP's early in the next couple of drafts or sign them up beforehand, leaving little quality for the rest of the league to fight over.
I agree regarding Geelong and their midfield being their key, but sheesh, Ling, Ablett, Selwood, Corey, Bartel etc. are outstanding individually. We will not get that quality in our midfield, so I think a top notch KPF is required. A 60 - 80 a year goal kicker will lessen the reliance on our mids to win the ball and score the goals too.
Other than Butcher their appears to be a lack of KPF's in this draft with genuine class. Griffiths might be one but injury has prevented him from consistently showing this. I for one would not be too concerned if we picked him at 21 if we go with a mid at 5. If we can keep him on the park he could be Tippetesque.
Interesting your comments re Kane Lucas. I was thinking the same thing just yesterday. A lot to like about a 6'3 runner (we need outside runners) with outstanding agility and a good footy brain. Also like his frame. He is skinny atm but quite broad across the shoulders and looks like he will fill out well.
Wouldn't be disappointed to get him at 5 thb.

Nail head, tanking sides struggle to get close to this let alone a mixture of picks in the 40's, Rookies and a couple of decent picks. Will never be enough to carry North through a full finals series.

 

[Pykie]

Although i love talking about drafts/trades, i do wish it would bloody happen soon.

I think the draft should be a bit earlier, so that the new draftees can get down to the club earlier and do a full pre-season.

This could be possible, if the AFL decided to raise the minimum draft age by a year.

You could hold the draft straight after trade week.


But at the moment, the concern is for the kids, with 90% of them undergoing year 12 studies, and exams and their lead ups are right smack bang after the football season (around now).


The last thing they need is to get drafted, so as to give them a false sense of security for their futures.

 

[Pykie]

I agree RF08, and good detailed post in reply to mine. My concern is what happens if Drew goes down at any point in the next few years for a season, and Tarrant does not come on. WS and GC will take all the top notch KP's early in the next couple of drafts or sign them up beforehand, leaving little quality for the rest of the league to fight over.
I agree regarding Geelong and their midfield being their key, but sheesh, Ling, Ablett, Selwood, Corey, Bartel etc. are outstanding individually. We will not get that quality in our midfield, so I think a top notch KPF is required. A 60 - 80 a year goal kicker will lessen the reliance on our mids to win the ball and score the goals too.
Other than Butcher their appears to be a lack of KPF's in this draft with genuine class. Griffiths might be one but injury has prevented him from consistently showing this. I for one would not be too concerned if we picked him at 21 if we go with a mid at 5. If we can keep him on the park he could be Tippetesque.
Interesting your comments re Kane Lucas. I was thinking the same thing just yesterday. A lot to like about a 6'3 runner (we need outside runners) with outstanding agility and a good footy brain. Also like his frame. He is skinny atm but quite broad across the shoulders and looks like he will fill out well.
Wouldn't be disappointed to get him at 5 thb.

Whats the guarentee that taking a KPF will instantly turn them into a 60-80 goal key position forward?


The draft is alot like poker, you can hedge your bets, make the calculated guess', but there is still alot of luck involved in a players development.


There's no reason why we can't develop an outstanding individual midfield either.

With Ziebell and a Cunnington etc you have a pretty darn good nucleus to start with, and thats discounting the development in players like Swallow, Greenwood, Anthony, Wright etc

Geelong look like genius' at the moment, but alot of things fell into place to get them here.



My personal preference (certainly for the top 3 picks) is most definately best available.

We have some glaring holes in quite a few places, without the need to individually draft to try and patch one.


I'd rather we built an overall stronger squad.

If that means a Cunnington, Bastinac and Coyler combination, then so-be-it, it just means our midfield will be a hell of alot better in the coming years.

 

[Chaddy Roo]

Hi North devotees, new writer, long time reader.

I have read about potential draftees as being injury prone, or missed the last 12 months due to injury..therefore they are a gamble and perhaps not worth drafting.

(I make reference to Griffen)

I can not agree with this thought process.

I am old enough to remember James Hird (as a junior in Canberra) had terrible, degenerative hips. Turned out ok.

Joel Selwood , as admitted by Stibbard, was overlooked because of crap knees. If he had good knees a top 3 pick for sure.

There are many more examples.

I reckon if a kid showed heaps of potential and was on fire until recently, history should teach us that they do tend to make full recoveries and I'm certain AFL medical care is a notch up from TAC...

*Disclaimer.....I might be contradicting myself, because according to that good for nothing parasite, JWS it appears we dont even have a stretcher or elastoplast in the whole joint.

Besides the point..I say if Griffen is our key position target in round 2, we must grab him. I'm becoming sick of the ones that got away....

 

[d_manga_fanatic]

we might be having a look at Majak Daw for our last pick @ 53 according to the Age, with Euge actually talking about him in an interview regarding him

http://www.realfooty.com.au/articles/2009/10/30/1256835153144.html

what does everyone think??

in a draft where they say its shallow... why not have a crack coz this guy apparently has a ton of talent and is looking likely to be picked up. ND or rookie draft, we dont know

 

[Mario the Lothario]

A bit of a different take on criteria for selections at this years draft table.

When looking at the drafting possibilities for 2009 I was thinking about what makes a great team, and what does North need to do to make a great team in the next 3 – 7 years. One thing I think is vital, is for a team to play a heap of football together and develop together as a team. Look at this years Grand Finalists. Both Geelong and St. Kilda had significant amounts of their teams play together for many years before really getting it together. So, as a consequence I decided to look at our list from a 25 years of age and under perspective, for the majority on 2010. The bulk of this team is under 23, with H and Wellsy the only two that will be 25 in 2010. If they progress individually as we hope they do, then they will play a lot of football together.


FB: McMahon - Grima – Thompson

HB: Urquhart – Hansen – White

C: Wells – Ziebell – Anthony

HF: Warren - Josh Smith – Wright

FF: Thomas – Tarrant – Campbell


R: McIntosh – Swallow - Greenwood

INT: Adams – Goldstein - O'Keefe – Garlett


EMG: Benjamin – Lower – Ross

Res: Obst, Speight,

Rookies: Delaney, Meredith

Picks 5, 21, 25, 37, 41, 57.

From this assessment I think it is clear that our backline is in a fantastic position, from both a key position point of view to a small to mid defender and HBF point of view.

Our midfield could use some bolstering, a bit of pace and genuine class is required, although if those here come on as expected (Ziebell, Anthony, Swallow, Greenwood) and Adams, Garlett, Ross , Lower and Benjamin show improvement, we could be alright. Still, it is obvious that we need to draft mids this year.

Rucks are strong, a back up in the next year or two might be a good idea.

The biggest issue, as highlighted above, is KPF’s. Tarrant is an unknown quantity, Smith, well, is limited, O’Keefe looks good, but who knows. Mid and small forwards are in good nick, but it is obvious that we need to get a KPF, and a good one.

Looking at team development and resources, we need to get a good, strong KPF this draft. The questions that the recruiting team need to ask are:

Can we afford to overlook Butcher if available at 5?

Do we have faith that Tarrant is what the club hope him to be? What is plan B if he goes down again?

Do we need an A-grade midfielder more than we need an A-grade KPF?

Will we get sufficient midfield talent at 21 and 25 if we select Butcher at 5?

If we select Rohan or Cunnington at 5, is there sufficient talent in the KPF’s at 21 and 25?

This year the recruiting team will certainly earn their money. This shapes up as a vital draft for the club and I reckon it all revolves around Butcher and how the club sees our forward stocks in 3 – 7 years time, remembering that GC and WS will have the pick of the best for the next few drafts.

I am almost leaning towards taking Butcher, hoping for two of Bastinac, Christiansen, Stevens, Gybsters, Duncan, Taylor, Colyer, Melksham etc at 21 and 25.

On another note, considering the youth of this list, potentially 32 guys + rookies under 23, a great move by the club the get Jon Haine on the books. Well done to the person with the foresight to get such a well respected junior developer to the club.

Excellent synopsis.

As you have pointed out, the KPF situation is our only foreseeable Achilles Heel.

Can we afford to overlook Butcher if available at 5?

No.

 

[shinboner magic]

Pykie and AGC is there any chance you could do a Phantom draft on here for us. As it looks like you two have a good grasp of what the players are like.

Thanks in advance

 

[year of the roo]

Hi North devotees, new writer, long time reader.

I have read about potential draftees as being injury prone, or missed the last 12 months due to injury..therefore they are a gamble and perhaps not worth drafting.

(I make reference to Griffen)

I can not agree with this thought process.

I am old enough to remember James Hird (as a junior in Canberra) had terrible, degenerative hips. Turned out ok.

Joel Selwood , as admitted by Stibbard, was overlooked because of crap knees. If he had good knees a top 3 pick for sure.

There are many more examples.

I reckon if a kid showed heaps of potential and was on fire until recently, history should teach us that they do tend to make full recoveries and I'm certain AFL medical care is a notch up from TAC...

*Disclaimer.....I might be contradicting myself, because according to that good for nothing parasite, JWS it appears we dont even have a stretcher or elastoplast in the whole joint.

Besides the point..I say if Griffen is our key position target in round 2, we must grab him. I'm becoming sick of the ones that got away....

For every Hird and Selwood (and I will throw in Judd for you) there are so many who go the other way. Trotter, Shore, Chad Jones, Grima and Urch at this club alone in recent times. I think we can get a bit more experimental and cavalier in our drafting when we start to become a genuine contender. Until then we need to build a list of talented, fit, young players.

 

[Pykie]

Pykie and AGC is there any chance you could do a Phantom draft on here for us. As it looks like you two have a good grasp of what the players are like.

Thanks in advance

The Bigfooty one is in 4 days, i'll be writing some profiles on that one.


Unlike others, I just don't have the time to sit down and devote a few thousand words into draft profiles.

If you want a list of players to start with, to have a look at (The AFL has most of the player video's up now on their site);


#5: Cunnington/Butcher/Rohan/Lucas - I'd be extremely suprised if we got someone other than these 4.

#21: Koby Stevens/Jake Melkshem/Travis Coyler/Ryan Bastinac/Troy Taylor/Luke Tapscott/Ben Griffiths/Matthew Panos/Allen Christensen

#25: Ben Griffiths/Matthew Panos/Brad Shepphard/Mitch Duncan/Nat Fyfe/Sam Reid/Jesse Crichton

#37: Sam Reid/Jesse Crichton/Roland Ah Chee

#41: Max Gawn/Josh Thomas/Andrew Hooper

#53: Myles Sewell/Mick Barlow/Joel McDonald/Mitch Thorp


As you can see, we are going to nab some very good players at #21/#25, anyone that slips out of the first round.

 

[the smith show]

The Bigfooty one is in 4 days, i'll be writing some profiles on that one.


Unlike others, I just don't have the time to sit down and devote a few thousand words into draft profiles.

If you want a list of players to start with, to have a look at (The AFL has most of the player video's up now on their site);


#5: Cunnington/Butcher/Rohan/Lucas - I'd be extremely suprised if we got someone other than these 4.

#21: Koby Stevens/Jake Melkshem/Travis Coyler/Ryan Bastinac/Troy Taylor/Luke Tapscott/Ben Griffiths/Matthew Panos/Allen Christensen

#25: Ben Griffiths/Matthew Panos/Brad Shepphard/Mitch Duncan/Nat Fyfe/Sam Reid/Jesse Crichton

#37: Sam Reid/Jesse Crichton/Roland Ah Chee

#41: Max Gawn/Josh Thomas/Andrew Hooper

#53: Myles Sewell/Mick Barlow/Joel McDonald/Mitch Thorp


As you can see, we are going to nab some very good players at #21/#25, anyone that slips out of the first round.

Don't like Menzel, Pykie? Or Gysberts?

 

[Pykie]

Don't like Menzel, Pykie? Or Gysberts?

I like both those players, but it is entirely dependant on who is available at the time.

For one of the 3rd rounders, sure.

Do I like them infront of;


Melkshem
Coyler
Bastinac
Stevens
Duncan
Christensen
Tapscott
Shepphard



No I don't.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Wouldn't mind Winmar with 37 or 41 if he is still available. Nice size, about him and can run a bit. Seems to use the ball well enough too.

I will be curious to see how many WA boys we pick up, seeing that Jon Haine is now on board. I wonder if he will have some input into recruiting? Would love to get any of Lucas, Colyer, Duncan, Winmar or Sheppard.

 

[Wells Train]

After watching most of the youtube highlights I would like Cunnington for his hardness or martin because his disposal is top notch both feet. Rohan is electric but seems to blaze away but the potential is there. Lucas has terrible disposal in all 3 seperate highlight packages and IMO we have enough of those players. Butcher is built similar to Hansen and may take some time to come on.
Saying the above it has to be
Pick 5- Martin, Cunnington or Rohan in that order of preference

 

[Pykie]

Wouldn't mind Winmar with 37 or 41 if he is still available. Nice size, about him and can run a bit. Seems to use the ball well enough too.

I will be curious to see how many WA boys we pick up, seeing that Jon Haine is now on board. I wonder if he will have some input into recruiting? Would love to get any of Lucas, Colyer, Duncan, Winmar or Sheppard.

If Travis Coyler makes his way to the footy cub, I think i'll be just as happy as I was when BL read out Jack Ziebell's name last year.