2009 Draft Discussion

[Kimbo]

I would like to ask Pykie on his thought on Morabito? Do you think he is more an athlete then a footballer, and will just fade to a bit player in the AFL not picking up much contested footy and just getting cheap kicks, ala Sam Power. Or do you think he can be an A grade Footballer like Adam Goodes .

Good question micky_11. I wonder about Morabito too. Not convinced.

Over to da man... Pykie?

 

[DunderHead]

I quite like the look of Levi Casboult as well, he's a year older than the other draftees but 197 and 102 kg kicked 41.14 for stingrays this year also playing in the ruck. Does anyone have any ideas where he'll go in the draft?

 

[roos_fanatic08]

I quite like the look of Levi Casboult as well, he's a year older than the other draftees but 197 and 102 kg kicked 41.14 for stingrays this year also playing in the ruck. Does anyone have any ideas where he'll go in the draft?

I think he may be a late selection, or a rookie. The thing about Levi is that he was a man playing in a boys competition. I out muscled a lot of his opponents, simply due to his strength, but at AFL level he wouldn't be able to do that. He has an excellent kick, and marks well on the lead. His work ethic sometimes lacks though and from what I've seen he gets caught out not chasing his man.

I wouldn't mind getting a few KP's like him on the rookie list though

 

[roos_fanatic08]

<Disclaimer: knowledge based on viewing the various online libraries of TAC, u18 champs etc>

Still don't understand the Cunnington group tug. Yeh, he's hard at it and sounds like he weighs his turds and times his sleep but is it enough?

It's pick friggin 5, is this the sort of bloke who's going to give us the class we need? From what I've watched his disposal and decision making are so-so and his physical edge is going to be blunted against the seasoned bodies of AFL.

Then people start cranking off about Butcher. Please. The last time I heard someone say you've got to take a tall at some point because taking 'best available' would just knock up midfielders was Kevin Sheedy. In 2003. When he took the highly rated Kepler Bradley. That went well.

If Butcher was an elite tall then we'd be talking. But he doesn't look like it so there shouldn't be a decision to be made.

Fwiw, I rate Rohan, Lucas, Tapscott. If one of them fell to us I'd be a happy vegimite idraft 2.0.

I don't understand how you do not rate Cunnington. The guy is all class, goes in and gets the footy and knows how to use it. Rohan wouldn't have had half the season he did this year if he wasn't for Cunnington and Christensen feeding him the ball every game. Cunnington is not so-so. Although he did a physical edge, it was because of his ability to work his arse off during the year, when he was not at training.

I agree with your opinion r.e Butcher. He is not worth pick 5. We can get a KP with pick 21 or 25.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

That would mean Martin would slip. I doubt it but would be good.

My perfect draft would be:

5: Cunnington (assuming Martin @ 3)
21: Colyer (before WC nab him w/ 22 or 23
25: Griffiths
37: Barlett
41: Winmar
53: Sewell

That would add grit, skill and considerable dash to the midfield. Colyer & Barlett are class acts and super fast, Winmar is no slouch but is more of a risk. Sewell deserves a shot and Griffiths would be a bonus at 25, as would Bartlett at 37.

I like. If Griffiths is gone at pick 25 though, we'd probably just take another mid, or Nate Fyfe. A lot of speed and talent there though!

 

[DunderHead]

I think he may be a late selection, or a rookie. The thing about Levi is that he was a man playing in a boys competition. I out muscled a lot of his opponents, simply due to his strength, but at AFL level he wouldn't be able to do that. He has an excellent kick, and marks well on the lead. His work ethic sometimes lacks though and from what I've seen he gets caught out not chasing his man.

I wouldn't mind getting a few KP's like him on the rookie list though

Only a year older, and I reckon they could really bulk this kid up. If we could get him and Griffiths in this years draft I'd be very happy with our KP stocks.

 

[GarnerSmash]

I like. If Griffiths is gone at pick 25 though, we'd probably just take another mid, or Nate Fyfe. A lot of speed and talent there though!

Yeah, alot depends on what happens with Griffiths. If gone by 21 then I reckon we should still go with Colyer at 21 (if available, if not then best available) and then Bartlett at 25 (if available, if not then best available). If Griffiths is still there at 21 we may need to bite the bullet on Colyer and nab Griffiths at 21 and Bartlett at 25, as I cannot see Colyer getting past WC.

However, I do not work for the club so this is all bullshit anyway. Anyone else ever play Football Manager??

 

[Rippednew1]

With the revelations of Scott wanting to move Thomas away from the goals and Campbell into the midfield and that we already have 5 or 6 short midfielders i'd be avoiding the little ones in this draft.

Richmond are a great club and always recruit well for sustained success but i'm not sure modelling our midfield on them is the way to go.

King, Nahas, Foley, Tambling should help Richmond continue another era of mediocrity/failure. These littles may have ability and some excitement but at the end of the day make for an inconsistent and in Richmonds case rubbish side.
Reach and standing up in tackles are important components of a successful midfield and as Dennis would say centremetre perfect when getting fingertips on disputed ball, let alone marking ability and perceived pressure.

Sewell is an interesting choice as it seems he would have been a perfect fit for battler North 2007. Just dont see how he could add much to North except for being another shitter version of a decent brother. Too skinny, no A grade pace or awesome disposal imo. Dont see where he would fit in and not sure we should be going out of our way to snare this type of player. Battlers to the bin. The Myles bit aint fooln me

 

[r_boy]

With the revelations of Scott wanting to move Thomas away from the goals and Campbell into the midfield and that we already have 5 or 6 short midfielders i'd be avoiding the little ones in this draft.


King, Nahas, Foley, Tambling should help Richmond continue another era of mediocrity/failure. These littles may have ability and some excitement but at the end of the day make for an inconsistent and in Richmonds case rubbish side.
Reach and standing up in tackles are important components of a successful midfield and as Dennis would say centremetre perfect when getting fingertips on disputed ball, let alone marking ability and perceived pressure.

Not sure many will but I strongly agree with this theory.

 

[GarnerSmash]

With the revelations of Scott wanting to move Thomas away from the goals and Campbell into the midfield and that we already have 5 or 6 short midfielders i'd be avoiding the little ones in this draft.

Richmond are a great club and always recruit well for sustained success but i'm not sure modelling our midfield on them is the way to go.

King, Nahas, Foley, Tambling should help Richmond continue another era of mediocrity/failure. These littles may have ability and some excitement but at the end of the day make for an inconsistent and in Richmonds case rubbish side.
Reach and standing up in tackles are important components of a successful midfield and as Dennis would say centremetre perfect when getting fingertips on disputed ball, let alone marking ability and perceived pressure.

Sewell is an interesting choice as it seems he would have been a perfect fit for battler North 2007. Just dont see how he could add much to North except for being another shitter version of a decent brother. Too skinny, no A grade pace or awesome disposal imo. Dont see where he would fit in and not sure we should be going out of our way to snare this type of player. Battlers to the bin. The Myles bit aint fooln me

Fair points RN1. Not so sure that BScott was adamant that LT and Flash were certainties to play midfield, but that their increased fitness gave him the option of giving them extended time there. We still need crumbers in the F50.

Re the littilies, I can assure you that Colyer and Bartlett have the potential to be a cut above anything on Richmonds list of a similar size. Blistering pace combined with great skills and a good footy brain is a rare combination.

Being small does not equate to being inconsistent, or merely being a receiver or runner. To illustrate this, have a look at this list:

Daniel Kerr = 178cm
Gary Ablett jr = 182cm
Ben Cousins = 179cm
Sam Mitchell = 179cm
Marc Murphy = 180cm
Cyril Rioli - 177cm
Rhys Palmer = 181cm
Daniel Rich = 183cm (little arms too)
Stephen Hill = 182cm

Some seriously good strong mids there that can win their own ball and use it exceptionally well, and others that can play in the midfield as receivers.

Colyer is tiny, 175cm I think, might grow a few more, but has played against men and done well. He is strong in the tackle, great in traffic and has more attributes that the similar sized blokes on the Richmond list that you highlighted earlier.

Bartlett is listed as 179cm, but again could add a few more. Again like Colyer, the bloke is a jet and has a beautiful left peg. He moves wonderfully well in trafiic, able to change direction at full pace, at least before the knee. By the looks of him he could be anything.

I understand your reluctance to have too many small guys in the midfield rotations. I too would be concerned if they are not physically strong enough, or not quick/smart enough to avoid being nabbed or unable to get rid of the ball. I think that these two can manage to overcome their vertically challenged nature to be absolute stars in their own right. In a midfield with Ziebell, Cunnington, Anthony, Wright, Spud, Wells, etc, these guys will add serious polish and footballing nous to the rotations.

Quality is quality, regardless of size. I am of the opinion that Colyer and Bartlett are quality footballers that, if selected by the Roos, will be in our best 22 within two years at the latest. They give us what we lack, and do so in spades.

Scully is only 183cm with little hands. Not much bigger than Bartlett. Should the Dees let him slide because of his lack of size?

Re Sewell, he is a magnet and knows how to get his hands on the ball at VFL level. True, he is a touch skinny and not super fast but worth a punt in a shallow draft after the first few rounds.

Should be interesting to see how this draft goes. I don't think that we will get both of Bartlett and Colyer but would love it if we did. We need guys that can break the lines and carry the ball.

 

[RuckRyder]

I don't understand how you do not rate Cunnington. The guy is all class, goes in and gets the footy and knows how to use it. Rohan wouldn't have had half the season he did this year if he wasn't for Cunnington and Christensen feeding him the ball every game. Cunnington is not so-so. Although he did a physical edge, it was because of his ability to work his arse off during the year, when he was not at training.

I agree with your opinion r.e Butcher. He is not worth pick 5. We can get a KP with pick 21 or 25.

Can you though? The lack of quality talls suggest clubs will take them fairly early. You'd expect Port, Swans and Carlton to pick a tall either due to their numerous top 20 picks or in Carlton's case a necessity for a tall this draft. Not to mention Richmond who have somehow contrived to have had many early picks in recent times but haven't shored up their KPP's.

 

[Rippednew1]

Fair points RN1. Not so sure that BScott was adamant that LT and Flash were certainties to play midfield, but that their increased fitness gave him the option of giving them extended time there. We still need crumbers in the F50.

Re the littilies, I can assure you that Colyer and Bartlett have the potential to be a cut above anything on Richmonds list of a similar size. Blistering pace combined with great skills and a good footy brain is a rare combination.

Being small does not equate to being inconsistent, or merely being a receiver or runner. To illustrate this, have a look at this list:

Daniel Kerr = 178cm
Gary Ablett jr = 182cm
Ben Cousins = 179cm
Sam Mitchell = 179cm
Marc Murphy = 180cm
Cyril Rioli - 177cm
Rhys Palmer = 181cm
Daniel Rich = 183cm (little arms too)
Stephen Hill = 182cm

Some seriously good strong mids there that can win their own ball and use it exceptionally well, and others that can play in the midfield as receivers.

Colyer is tiny, 175cm I think, might grow a few more, but has played against men and done well. He is strong in the tackle, great in traffic and has more attributes that the similar sized blokes on the Richmond list that you highlighted earlier.

Bartlett is listed as 179cm, but again could add a few more. Again like Colyer, the bloke is a jet and has a beautiful left peg. He moves wonderfully well in trafiic, able to change direction at full pace, at least before the knee. By the looks of him he could be anything.

I understand your reluctance to have too many small guys in the midfield rotations. I too would be concerned if they are not physically strong enough, or not quick/smart enough to avoid being nabbed or unable to get rid of the ball. I think that these two can manage to overcome their vertically challenged nature to be absolute stars in their own right. In a midfield with Ziebell, Cunnington, Anthony, Wright, Spud, Wells, etc, these guys will add serious polish and footballing nous to the rotations.

Quality is quality, regardless of size. I am of the opinion that Colyer and Bartlett are quality footballers that, if selected by the Roos, will be in our best 22 within two years at the latest. They give us what we lack, and do so in spades.

Scully is only 183cm with little hands. Not much bigger than Bartlett. Should the Dees let him slide because of his lack of size?

Re Sewell, he is a magnet and knows how to get his hands on the ball at VFL level. True, he is a touch skinny and not super fast but worth a punt in a shallow draft after the first few rounds.

Should be interesting to see how this draft goes. I don't think that we will get both of Bartlett and Colyer but would love it if we did. We need guys that can break the lines and carry the ball.

The one thing with gun sides is the ability to change gears when pressed. I believe this comes about for 3 reasons: belief, sheer physicallity and skill. Belief is strongly related to the physicallity of a champion side and the ability to change gears or step up is a direct result of both. Stepping up in big games or full finals series or just H&A consistency is watered down by having too many non-physical players that dont contribute to intimidation or percieved pressure. Laidley inherited Boomer and Shagga who were out of the box but still Laidleys ploys of exploiting the smallman was a path of mediocrity and in 7 years never really got close to the ultimate. They can get under the guard of opposition but when the heats turned up the general lack of body, reach, physicallity etc can see the side fall flat when attempting/required to change gears imo. Boomer adds a heap to the midfield with his balance, speed and footy nous but adding too many more of these types wont add the intimidation or consistency that are paramount in a Gun side.

 

[GarnerSmash]

The one thing with gun sides is the ability to change gears when pressed. I believe this comes about for 3 reasons: belief, sheer physicallity and skill. Belief is strongly related to the physicallity of a champion side and the ability to change gears or step up is a direct result of both. Stepping up in big games or full finals series or just H&A consistency is watered down by having too many non-physical players that dont contribute to intimidation or percieved pressure. Laidley inherited Boomer and Shagga who were out of the box but still Laidleys ploys of exploiting the smallman was a path of mediocrity and in 7 years never really got close to the ultimate. They can get under the guard of opposition but when the heats turned up the general lack of body, reach, physicallity etc can see the side fall flat when attempting to change gears imo. Boomer adds a heap to the midfield with his balance, speed and footy nous but adding too many more of these types wont add the intimidation or consistency that are paramount in a Gun side.

Granted re finals like atmosphere and the requirement to smash bodies, but that is where the likes of Ziebell, Cunnington and Greenwood will smash players. Spud is 6'3 and 95kg, Anthony is just as tall and high 80 kgs. Wright will bulk up, as will Warren. The club needs to plan for 5-7 years down the track. Adding another bunch of guys in the mid 180cm range that do not have the pace and footballing ability of these two smaller guys (Colyer and Bartlett) does not make us a better, more flexible team, no matter what this situation.

You do not have to be big to impart pressure. As long as the small guys close down space with intensity and speed consistently, the perceived pressure will be there. Look at Matty Campbell. Frikin tiny but has opponents looking over their shoulders when he is around.

As long as all the smaller players live up to their end of the bargain in a physical sense, ie: going when it is their turn to go, chasing and tackling as hard as they can, then the pressure is there. Combine these guys with big, strong bodies who are also class footballers, then we are in with a chance against anyone.

Sure, I would love to have a midfield brigade of 189cm, 90kg guys that are awesome footballers and super quick, but these guys do not grow on trees. A midfield rotation with a combination of size, speed and skill is what wins games, not a bunch of mid paced, mid skilled knuckle-draggers that can hit hard when need be.

 

[r_boy]

Granted re finals like atmosphere and the requirement to smash bodies, but that is where the likes of Ziebell, Cunnington and Greenwood will smash players. Spud is 6'3 and 95kg, Anthony is just as tall and high 80 kgs. Wright will bulk up, as will Warren. The club needs to plan for 5-7 years down the track. Adding another bunch of guys in the mid 180cm range that do not have the pace and footballing ability of these two smaller guys (Colyer and Bartlett) does not make us a better, more flexible team, no matter what this situation.

Needs to be almost the whole team. Not just three or four players. You can really only afford to carry one or two small players in the side.

You do not have to be big to impart pressure. As long as the small guys close down space with intensity and speed consistently, the perceived pressure will be there. Look at Matty Campbell. Frikin tiny but has opponents looking over their shoulders when he is around.

It's not pressure its intimidation and small players are not intimidating. The fear and intimidation factor is possibly the hardest thing to observe when watching from the stands or TV but it is one of the most influential components in footy.

Matt Campbell does not have opponents looking over their shoulders in fear mate that's laughable. Maybe when they think he's gonna run them down but not when it comes to being physical.

 

[Rippednew1]

Granted re finals like atmosphere and the requirement to smash bodies, but that is where the likes of Ziebell, Cunnington and Greenwood will smash players. Spud is 6'3 and 95kg, Anthony is just as tall and high 80 kgs. Wright will bulk up, as will Warren. The club needs to plan for 5-7 years down the track. Adding another bunch of guys in the mid 180cm range that do not have the pace and footballing ability of these two smaller guys (Colyer and Bartlett) does not make us a better, more flexible team, no matter what this situation.

You do not have to be big to impart pressure. As long as the small guys close down space with intensity and speed consistently, the perceived pressure will be there. Look at Matty Campbell. Frikin tiny but has opponents looking over their shoulders when he is around.

As long as all the smaller players live up to their end of the bargain in a physical sense, ie: going when it is their turn to go, chasing and tackling as hard as they can, then the pressure is there. Combine these guys with big, strong bodies who are also class footballers, then we are in with a chance against anyone.

Sure, I would love to have a midfield brigade of 189cm, 90kg guys that are awesome footballers and super quick, but these guys do not grow on trees. A midfield rotation with a combination of size, speed and skill is what wins games, not a bunch of mid paced, mid skilled knuckle-draggers that can hit hard when need be.

Its more that North already has big contigent of those types. A side like Adelaide could draft down that road, but with Campbell/Thomas/Boomer/Ross/Adams/Garlett just dont think we need anymore Nahas size players. The pressure of being tackled by one of the littles is different to common fear of hurt factor. I get the impression that having too many of these nippy tacklers can in fact have the opposite effect at times and increase the confidence of the opposition players to flick away these guys with little harm. Just run through the bastards as they say. Im not saying we dont need pace in the middle, just that we need more standard mid sized AFL players before we need more extra small nippy, gone fishing types. We certainly need some polish and pace and hopefully in combination but i'd prefer we bolstered the forward line than risk finals failure and inconsistency by adding more non-physical very short players purely for a touch of speed and reactive chasing tendencies. If 1 of those guys is the closest to pace we can get then so be it but at this stage of our development im not sure adding pace at the complete expense of physicallity to our list is as important as adding some polish, physicallity and of course 1 more stand up forward and 1 more decent half forward.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Needs to be almost the whole team. Not just three or four players. You can really only afford to carry one or two small players in the side.

I don't agree. I am not saying that we have half a team of short people, but if West Coast can win a flag with Cousins (179cm) and Kerr (178cm) in the middle I cannot see why we can't include smaller potential guns into a midfield group with good, existing size.

It's not pressure its intimidation and small players are not intimidating. The fear and intimidation factor is possibly the hardest thing to observe when watching from the stands or TV but it is one of the most influential components in footy.

I agree with this, however can you tell me of a team where every member of the team was intimidating? Ok then, half the team?

As for us, Thompson, Pratt and Grima can look after themselves in the back, Ziebell, Greenwood and (of course assuming that we use pick 5 on him) Cunnington are intense at the ball and man in a kind of disturbing way. I don't think that in 5-7 years we will be lacking too much in this area.

Matt Campbell does not have opponents looking over their shoulders in fear mate that's laughable. Maybe when they think he's gonna run them down but not when it comes to being physical.

I never said in fear of being hit, but certainly in fear of being tackled. What's with the condescending tone?

 

[GarnerSmash]

Its more that North already has big contigent of those types. A side like Adelaide could draft down that road, but with Campbell/Thomas/Boomer/Ross/Adams/Garlett just dont think we need anymore Nahas size players.

In the next 5-7 years Boomer will be gone, and possibly two to three more of the guys mentioned above will, in all likelihood, no longer be at the club.
As long as the guys brought in are quality footballers, I think, at this point, we can afford to have a few more smaller guys on the list, with the next flag in mind. Considering a significant portion of the quality footballers will be nabbed by GC and WS in the next few years, we cannot afford to miss the opportunity of getting talented players when they present themselves, within reason of course. Also, Nahas is not a good comparison to Colyer and Bartlett. Both may be on the short side, but are not the whippet that Nahas is.

The pressure of being tackled by one of the littles is different to common fear of hurt factor. I get the impression that having too many of these nippy tacklers can in fact have the opposite effect at times and increase the confidence of the opposition players to flick away these guys with little harm. Just run through the bastards as they say. Im not saying we dont need pace in the middle, just that we need more standard mid sized AFL players before we need more extra small nippy, gone fishing types. We certainly need some polish and pace and hopefully in combination but i'd prefer we bolstered the forward line than risk finals failure and inconsistency by adding more non-physical very short players purely for a touch of speed and reactive chasing tendencies. If 1 of those guys is the closest to pace we can get then so be it but at this stage of our development i'm not sure adding pace at the complete expense of physicallity to our list is as important as adding some polish, physicallity and of course 1 more stand up forward and 1 more decent half forward.

I agree, removing physicality from our playing style is not a good thing, but as stated previously, Kerr and Cousins are two little guys that can more than hold their own. As you mentioned earlier, belief has a great role to play here. BScott has already said that there will be an emphasis on the club playing hard contested footy. Yes, lets do that, but let's not ignore the fact that football matches are won by footballers of quality. Have the team playing aggressive, passionate football with a good mix of players in size and pace is imperative. Let's not discount exceptional talent because it does not meet a certain height standard. This is not a ride at the Melbourne show. It is football, with many intangibles.

However, I fear that we will continue to disagree on this one.

 

[Rippednew1]

In the next 5-7 years Boomer will be gone, and possibly two to three more of the guys mentioned above will, in all likelihood, no longer be at the club.
As long as the guys brought in are quality footballers, I think, at this point, we can afford to have a few more smaller guys on the list, with the next flag in mind. Considering a significant portion of the quality footballers will be nabbed by GC and WS in the next few years, we cannot afford to miss the opportunity of getting talented players when they present themselves, within reason of course. Also, Nahas is not a good comparison to Colyer and Bartlett. Both may be on the short side, but are not the whippet that Nahas is.



I agree, removing physicality from our playing style is not a good thing, but as stated previously, Kerr and Cousins are two little guys that can more than hold their own. As you mentioned earlier, belief has a great role to play here. BScott has already said that there will be an emphasis on the club playing hard contested footy. Yes, lets do that, but let's not ignore the fact that football matches are won by footballers of quality. Have the team playing aggressive, passionate football with a good mix of players in size and pace is imperative. Let's not discount exceptional talent because it does not meet a certain height standard. This is not a ride at the Melbourne show. It is football, with many intangibles.

However, I fear that we will continue to disagree on this one.

Kerr and Cousins had Judd and Cox, its a different ball park. Those 2 are close to 5'11 anyhow. We have 4 guys who are around 5'8 and we dont have 2 of the best players of all time in the middle next to them. Going by what Richmond have and what Freo drafted last year im sure they would agree with you. However sides like Geelong and Saints who have half of our short people might disagree.
You say Scott wants a physical game yet say we should go down the dwarf road to ensure we have dwarfs for years to come? Justifying is fine but lets not get all crazy about it. We have enough shorts, those types are around in all drafts only a matter of which ones dont fall through the cracks or whether the coach gets sick of the weak, inconsistent brushing over of his side aka Richmond.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Kerr and Cousins had Judd and Cox, its a different ball park. Those 2 are close to 5'11 anyhow. We have 4 guys who are around 5'8 and we dont have 2 of the best players of all time in the middle next to them. Going by what Richmond have and what Freo drafted last year im sure they would agree with you. However sides like Geelong and Saints who have half of our short people might disagree.
You say Scott wants a physical game yet say we should go down the dwarf road to ensure we have dwarfs for years to come? Justifying is fine but lets not get all crazy about it. We have enough shorts, those types are around in all drafts only a matter of which ones dont fall through the cracks or whether the coach gets sick of the weak, inconsistent brushing over of his side aka Richmond.

Again, I never promoted a land of the dwarfs midfield, but a good mix that enable smaller, super fast guys that can really use the pill to be a part of the rotations.

Again, I also said that I do not belive that all of Campbell/Thomas/Boomer/Ross/Adams/Garlett will be there in 5 - 7 years. Besides, Colyer and Bartlett have more going for them that Garlett, Ross and Adams and will in all likelihood become better players that them.
Having up to 4-5 guys in the squad at or below 5'11 is fine. However I would not play 8 small midfielders in the same team, as you seem to think I am insinuating.

As far as the West Coast comparisons go, we will have Goldy, H-Mac and Ziebell in the middle. Not bad support, and by the way, I am not saying that we rely on short people for clearances ala WC with Kerr and Cousins. Swallow, Greenwood, Ziebell and Cunnington can do that, with the occasional help from the likes of Spud and Anthony. Big enough for you? To have the likes of Colyer and Bartlett being fed by those mentioned is enough to make any KPF jizz in his pants.

Continuous comparisons to Richmond are moot. We already have a growing selection of big bodied mids that like the physical side of the game. They appear not to.

As stated before we need players that are fast and excellent users of the ball. We do not have too many of those. Do we need them more than we need two more mid to big bodied mids that are not as fast or talented? Yes, I think we do. Are we likely to get any physically well developed mids with electric pace and great skills in the next 4 drafts? No, I don't think we will. Can our midfield rotations support a 173-175cm guy and a 179-181cm guy in say three years (Boomer will be gone)? Sure. Can we play Flash as a crumbing forward or HFF if we have two smaller guys running through the middle? Yes, I think we can.

Picture this team in three years.
To me, the team looks pretty good. Not small, not lightweight, but talented, quick, and strong.

McMahon - Grima - Thomson
Urquhart - Hansen - Wells
Cunnington - Ziebell - Anthony
Wright - Tarrant - Warren
Campbell - Petrie - Thomas
McIntosh - Swallow - Greenwood

O'Keefe - Colyer - Bartlett - Goldy

 

[the smith show]

Burgan's latest top17.

Hope we end up with Cunnington, Bastinac, Bartlett/Griffiths with our first 3.

By Matt Burgan 1:23 PM Wed 04 November, 2009
Aaron Black (Western Australia/Peel Thunder)
Still looks set to be a first-round selection after his continual rise up the order in recent months, much like Geelong's Mitchell Brown last year. Black has a fine leap and is now regarded as one of the best key forwards in the mix.

John Butcher (Vic Country/Gippsland Power)
Still a little difficult to place, having been touted as a potential No.1 early in the year, but Butcher is believed to back in the top-12 mix. He is still regarded by many as the best key forward in this year's pool.

Jake Carlisle (Vic Metro/Calder Cannons)
Carlisle's status rose in the pecking order because of his outstanding end to the season. A tall defender/forward he comes right into first round calculations due to his height (196cm) and flexibility.

Ben Cunnington (Vic Country/Geelong Falcons)
It's hard to see the kamikaze-like Cunnington slipping past the first half dozen in this year's crop. At this stage he is favoured to become a Kangaroo at No.5 and it appears unlikely the hard-at-it midfielder/forward will slip past the Sydney Swans at No.6.

Lewis Jetta (Western Australia/Swan Districts)
Still widely regarded as the best mature-age player in this year's draft, the 20-year-old Jetta has been strongly linked to the West Coast Eagles at No.7. He is related to Essendon's Leroy and Melbourne's Neville.

Kane Lucas (Western Australia/East Fremantle)
Lucas' outstanding finish to the season and impressive senior WAFL form have pushed him up the order. Some recruiters believe he is an 8-10 prospect and it's hard to see the midfielder not being in the top 12 now.

Dustin Martin (Vic Country/Bendigo Pioneers)
Martin continued to rise up the charts as the season went on, and even post-season when he shone at the recent NAB AFL Draft Camp. It would be a surprise if he slipped past Richmond at No.3.

Jake Melksham (Vic Metro/Calder Cannons)
His best-on-ground grand final performance for the Cannons in the TAC Cup has boosted his prospects. The midfielder won 23 disposals and had seven inside-50s in that match and he now looks set to be a first-rounder.

Andrew Moore (Vic Metro/Eastern Ranges)
Moore, the younger brother of Richmond's Kel, is very much in the first-round equation due to his versatility. Some recruiters have likened him to Swan Ryan O'Keefe and Adelaide's Andy Otten.

Anthony Morabito (Western Australia/Peel Thunder)
Although he is not without a chance of being chosen by Melbourne (No.2) or Richmond (No.3), the Western Australian looks set to remain in his home state, with Fremantle a strong tip at pick four. The run-and-carry midfielder has been compared to Swan Adam Goodes.

Gary Rohan (Vic Country/Geelong Falcons)
The high-leaping half-forward is one of this year's most exciting prospects. Although his form dipped a little late in the season, he remains right up there in the minds of recruiters. He topped the new kicking drill at the Draft Camp with 77 per cent efficiency.

Brad Sheppard (Western Australia/East Fremantle)
Rated highly by recruiters due to his consistency and reliability, Sheppard appears a likely first-rounder. His prospects rose after he was rewarded with All-Australian selection following this year's NAB AFL under-18 championships.

Tom Scully (Vic Metro/Dandenong Stingrays)
At worst, Scully will not slip past No.2, with South Australian Jack Trengove the only other player in the mix for No.1 The hard-running midfielder still appears to be the No.1 though, having been tipped for top spot for much of the year. He will become a Demon.

Koby Stevens (Vic Country/Gippsland Power)
Stevens is an interesting selection, looming as a 10-20 pick at this stage, but most likely claiming a spot in the first round. The inside midfielder and contested ball-winner is regarded as a genuine footballer.

Daniel Talia (Vic Metro/Calder Cannons)
Talia remains one of the most sought after key defenders in this year's group and is likely to feature in the 10 to 20 region. A hamstring injury curtailed his year, but he was the All-Australian centre half-back following this year's under-18 champs.

Luke Tapscott (South Australia/North Adelaide)
The strongly built forward/midfielder, who has been likened to 2009 NAB AFL Rising Star medallist Daniel Rich, is still widely regarded as the best kick in the draft. He looks set to be claimed in the first-round and appears to be in the eight to 17 bracket.

Jack Trengove (South Australia/Sturt)
A blistering end to his season now has him as a genuine No.1 contender; if not, he will be taken at No.2 and will still join Melbourne. The hard-at-it midfielder/forward has had an outstanding year.

 

[Arden Street]

I was impressed with the Callum Barlett footage. He is quick, can run and carry and is a nice left foot kick. I wouldn't mind him on the opposite wing to Daniel Wells.

 

[r_boy]

I agree with this, however can you tell me of a team where every member of the team was intimidating? Ok then, half the team?

As for us, Thompson, Pratt and Grima can look after themselves in the back, Ziebell, Greenwood and (of course assuming that we use pick 5 on him) Cunnington are intense at the ball and man in a kind of disturbing way. I don't think that in 5-7 years we will be lacking too much in this area.

I never said in fear of being hit, but certainly in fear of being tackled. What's with the condescending tone?

Almost every Geelong and St.Kilda player is of reasonable height and built like a ****ing tank. They can basically all win their own ball and most of them are quality users of it.

Wasn't trying to be condescending it was just funny the thought of Scarlett or someone running out of defence and looking over his shoulder cause he's afraid of Matt Campbell.

Just because you need classy players who may have a bit of pace doesn't mean they need to be small. Yes there are exceptions like Mitchell and Kerr and Cousins but I think if I was coach I would just be following a philosophy of getting tall strong and tough players that have good disposal. That would be my very general blueprint player because when I have a look at past premiership teams that's basically what I see 90% of the time.

 

[Rippednew1]

Again, I never promoted a land of the dwarfs midfield, but a good mix that enable smaller, super fast guys that can really use the pill to be a part of the rotations.

Again, I also said that I do not belive that all of Campbell/Thomas/Boomer/Ross/Adams/Garlett will be there in 5 - 7 years. Besides, Colyer and Bartlett have more going for them that Garlett, Ross and Adams and will in all likelihood become better players that them.
Having up to 4-5 guys in the squad at or below 5'11 is fine. However I would not play 8 small midfielders in the same team, as you seem to think I am insinuating.

As far as the West Coast comparisons go, we will have Goldy, H-Mac and Ziebell in the middle. Not bad support, and by the way, I am not saying that we rely on short people for clearances ala WC with Kerr and Cousins. Swallow, Greenwood, Ziebell and Cunnington can do that, with the occasional help from the likes of Spud and Anthony. Big enough for you? To have the likes of Colyer and Bartlett being fed by those mentioned is enough to make any KPF jizz in his pants.

Continuous comparisons to Richmond are moot. We already have a growing selection of big bodied mids that like the physical side of the game. They appear not to.

As stated before we need players that are fast and excellent users of the ball. We do not have too many of those. Do we need them more than we need two more mid to big bodied mids that are not as fast or talented? Yes, I think we do. Are we likely to get any physically well developed mids with electric pace and great skills in the next 4 drafts? No, I don't think we will. Can our midfield rotations support a 173-175cm guy and a 179-181cm guy in say three years (Boomer will be gone)? Sure. Can we play Flash as a crumbing forward or HFF if we have two smaller guys running through the middle? Yes, I think we can.

Picture this team in three years.
To me, the team looks pretty good. Not small, not lightweight, but talented, quick, and strong.

McMahon - Grima - Thomson
Urquhart - Hansen - Wells
Cunnington - Ziebell - Anthony
Wright - Tarrant - Warren
Campbell - Petrie - Thomas
McIntosh - Swallow - Greenwood

O'Keefe - Colyer - Bartlett - Goldy

Thats a pretty small, lightweight side. Good enough for a Richmond type tilt at the 8 maybe. The point is that North already have a surplus of too small, too light players and there is no chance 2 high picks will be going on more small players. 1 maybe but 2 is complete madness.
90% of the best midfielders are and will be over 6 foot. This is too ridiculous to argue about really, as when a side is to have a surplus its much better to have a surplus of key defenders, key forwards or ruckmen than a double surplus of smalls.
Inconsistency and extra lightweights go together like solid bodied, reasonable height and premierships. Geelong had a surplus of rucks, Hawks key forwards, Saints key backs which helped them with domination of those areas.
Pace is pace and doesnt have to coincide with a tiny frame unless you want an Essendon/Richmond/North type hollow list thats up and down like a yoyo and laughed out of finals like school boys.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Thats a pretty small, lightweight side. Good enough for a Richmond type tilt at the 8 maybe. The point is that North already have a surplus of too small, too light players and there is no chance 2 high picks will be going on more small players. 1 maybe but 2 is complete madness.
90% of the best midfielders are and will be over 6 foot. This is too ridiculous to argue about really, as when a side is to have a surplus its much better to have a surplus of key defenders, key forwards or ruckmen than a double surplus of smalls.
Inconsistency and extra lightweights go together like solid bodied, reasonable height and premierships. Geelong had a surplus of rucks, Hawks key forwards, Saints key backs which helped them with domination of those areas.
Pace is pace and doesnt have to coincide with a tiny frame unless you want an Essendon/Richmond/North type hollow list thats up and down like a yoyo and laughed out of finals like school boys.

McMahon - Grima - Thomson
Urquhart - Hansen - Wells
Cunnington - Ziebell - Anthony
Wright - Tarrant - Warren
Campbell - Petrie - Thomas
McIntosh - Swallow - Greenwood

O'Keefe - Colyer - Bartlett - Goldy

You might have noticed I said in three years time.

You also seem to continue to miss things I state, such as 4-5 guys in the 175 to 180 range ain't a surplus that small players as long as the heavy work is done by the bigger bodied guys.

Wright (188cm) is light now as is O'Keefe (193cm) but both will put on considerable bulk in three years. Greenwood weighs in at 92kg and has a great vertical leap combined with an insane attack on the ball. Not lightweight in anyones language. Campbell as a FP is fine, as is Thomas. Wells, well, no argument there but is a fine player nonetheless. Anyway, I am not going to continue on this as there is no point.

Moving right along.

 

[Rippednew1]

McMahon - Grima - Thomson
Urquhart - Hansen - Wells
Cunnington - Ziebell - Anthony
Wright - Tarrant - Warren
Campbell - Petrie - Thomas
McIntosh - Swallow - Greenwood

O'Keefe - Colyer - Bartlett - Goldy

You might have noticed I said in three years time.

You also seem to continue to miss things I state, such as 4-5 guys in the 175 to 180 range ain't a surplus that small players as long as the heavy work is done by the bigger bodied guys.

Wright (188cm) is light now as is O'Keefe (193cm) but both will put on considerable bulk in three years. Greenwood weighs in at 92kg and has a great vertical leap combined with an insane attack on the ball. Not lightweight in anyones language. Campbell as a FP is fine, as is Thomas. Wells, well, no argument there but is a fine player nonetheless. Anyway, I am not going to continue on this as there is no point.

Moving right along.

This doesnt help with consistency or stepping up to a higher level. But anyhows BTron interesting debate