2009 Draft Our Best Yet?

[1981]

I know this is ridiculously pre-mature, and I might well be totally wrong, but I have a sneaky suspicion the 2008 Draft might go down in history as one of our most successful drafts.

Already Robinson has jumped out of the box, his form so far bagging 4 majors and being ubiquitous in an intra-club hit-out putting weight behind the club's big call that they rated him in the top 10.

And Yarran, while he has not stood out so far this pre-season likely eventually will develop into a class player, such is his terrific skills and pace and proven track record playing senior football in WA. The club did say from the outset his first year would be one of settling in and we shouldn't exopect too muich from him straight away.

And I also like the look of Tiller, who if anything was the blind punt among the 2008 lot of Carlton draftees. There's just something about this lad. Just seems quick/agile for his height, just seems have a bit of 'spark'. My first impressions of him are a better, quicker version of Fisher. Could he do a Westhoff?

 

[Salaryman]

Sack Wayne Hughes

 

[Loramarthalas]

Dont forget Knockers at pick 24 + some loose change. While he might not even play this year, I reckon he will eventually. Let's hope he can get his body right.

 

[Alpha1]

Where can I read the reviews of the players we have drafted this year?

 

[Juddys_navy_blues]

Might need to change the thread title, 2008 or 2009?

Not sold on Yarran yet, Jordan Russell played senior football in SA, and we all know what he is like.

 

[blues4flag]

As you said, far too premature to judge a draft. Let's revisit this a few years time and see where we're at.

 

[jonoman89]

Going to be hard to beat 2006.

 

[Silvagnis]

PIHL and I have already analysed all the 2009 draft Youtube videos and come up with a top 40.

Not sold on Yarran yet, Jordan Russell played senior football in SA, and we all know what he is like.

Gibbs, Austin, Armfield and Browne played senior footy as well...

And JR might be a slow developer.

 

[Faz 2000]

I think right now it's clearly our worst ever. We literally have not got a SINGLE AFL game out of any of the 2008 draftees! What a disaster!

 

[Salaryman]

PIHL and I have already analysed all the 2009 draft Youtube videos and come up with a top 40.

Gibbs, Austin, Armfield and Browne played senior footy as well...

And JR might be a slow developer.

What??? You mean y ou didn't consult Dave_The_Man ???

What utter lack of professionalism

 

[Cruiser23]

What??? You mean y ou didn't consult Dave_The_Man ???

What utter lack of professionalism

I laughed

 

[Kaladin Stormblessed]

Going to be hard to beat 2006.

And 2007.

Kreuzer, Judd, Browne and Armfield.

Not many players but a very tidy draft nonetheless.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Might need to change the thread title, 2008 or 2009?

Not sold on Yarran yet, Jordan Russell played senior football in SA, and we all know what he is like.

What is Jordan Russell like?
Is he like a player that played 21 of 22 games last season?
Is he like a player that has played 50 of a possible 74 since debut?
Is he like a player that our match committee fought hard to convince him not to go home at the end of his first 2 year contract and is clearly part of the list going forward?
Is that what you mean?
Cos I know you wouldnt be potting one of our own players, that wouldnt be what a true blues supporter would do, sounds more like what a tiger supporter would do.

If it sounds like I am on a bit of a crusade against our so called supporters bagging our own, you are right, I am. I have only been here a few months and have been appalled at the attitude of some so called supporters on here. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism or comparing one player with another and discussing who would be better suited to particular roles etc, but down right bagging is not on IMO. For example it is fair enough to say, 4 goals last season from 20 plus shots was a poor return from JR, but then Fish had a similar year kicking for goal and I would rather a player getting lots of shots off and missing than someone not getting the shots at goal at all, because sooner or later that kicking will straighten up. He has the skills but had a poor year and I am sure he and the coaching team are working on this part or any other dificiency in his game.

And for the record, even though I am new, I dont care if you are a veteran poster. Wrong is wrong and if we are all equal on here and I see a post I think is potting I will call you on it. If it is your right to post a pot then it is my right to post to call you on it.

And if you are potting him and want to justify it then please explain to me and others what makes you think you are a better selector than our current selectors, if you can convince me I will start a petition and get as many signitures as I can for you to replace the current selection committee. That is a promise. Until then or if you dont think you could replace our selectors then be a little more thoughtful in the way you go about it. By all means you can say you are not a fan, but to say a player is crap or a player is no good or weak, or whatever is not a good look. Some posters have their favorites and its not right that they should have to read such stuff about their favorite players. It just discourages people from posting or even reading this site.

Sorry Mods to get a bit off topic but I am sure you are getting well and truly full of posters potting our own.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I cant remember exactly which year it was 84 or 85 but the year Sticks, Bradley, Motley and I think Dorotich all in the same year although pre draft would be hard to top! 2 captians and about 700 games between them and it should have been 200 more as Motley was robbed of a brilliant career by the car accident.

 

[ctacp]

Sack Wayne Hughes
--
millers free...

we could then play finals this season & have him rebuild us for the next 5 years to almost play finals again..

ctacp
curlier than a catoggio pube

 

[Warsaw]

Whilst Rhys and Caleb are still young and need time to prove themselves Robinson and Yarran are genuine stars. So to answer the question yeah we've done bloody brilliant.

 

[Juddys_navy_blues]

What is Jordan Russell like?
Is he like a player that played 21 of 22 games last season?
Is he like a player that has played 50 of a possible 74 since debut?
Is he like a player that our match committee fought hard to convince him not to go home at the end of his first 2 year contract and is clearly part of the list going forward?
Is that what you mean?
Cos I know you wouldnt be potting one of our own players, that wouldnt be what a true blues supporter would do, sounds more like what a tiger supporter would do.

If it sounds like I am on a bit of a crusade against our so called supporters bagging our own, you are right, I am. I have only been here a few months and have been appalled at the attitude of some so called supporters on here. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism or comparing one player with another and discussing who would be better suited to particular roles etc, but down right bagging is not on IMO. For example it is fair enough to say, 4 goals last season from 20 plus shots was a poor return from JR, but then Fish had a similar year kicking for goal and I would rather a player getting lots of shots off and missing than someone not getting the shots at goal at all, because sooner or later that kicking will straighten up. He has the skills but had a poor year and I am sure he and the coaching team are working on this part or any other dificiency in his game.

And for the record, even though I am new, I dont care if you are a veteran poster. Wrong is wrong and if we are all equal on here and I see a post I think is potting I will call you on it. If it is your right to post a pot then it is my right to post to call you on it.

And if you are potting him and want to justify it then please explain to me and others what makes you think you are a better selector than our current selectors, if you can convince me I will start a petition and get as many signitures as I can for you to replace the current selection committee. That is a promise. Until then or if you dont think you could replace our selectors then be a little more thoughtful in the way you go about it. By all means you can say you are not a fan, but to say a player is crap or a player is no good or weak, or whatever is not a good look. Some posters have their favorites and its not right that they should have to read such stuff about their favorite players. It just discourages people from posting or even reading this site.

Sorry Mods to get a bit off topic but I am sure you are getting well and truly full of posters potting our own.

I suggest you go through my posts and see if im "potting" anyone, Pull your head in and be careful who you accuse of things, im Carlton through and through, make what you want of it.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I suggest you go through my posts and see if im "potting" anyone, Pull your head in and be careful who you accuse of things, im Carlton through and through, make what you want of it.

If you are not potting JR you must agree with me then. You must like me be sick of posters potting the players they for some reason dont like and you are rightly annoyed at the accusation. Just so we are clear, when you say "we all know what he is like" (your words in reference to JR) then you mean that he is a valued member of our team. Right?

If you agree you have my unreserved apology for misunderstanding you.

 

[Blue_Ninja]

This really is a very silly thread. None-not one of them has played a game for us yet. I am of course assuming that the OP meant the 2008 draft.

 

[mac25]

What is Jordan Russell like?
Is he like a player that played 21 of 22 games last season?
Is he like a player that has played 50 of a possible 74 since debut?
Is he like a player that our match committee fought hard to convince him not to go home at the end of his first 2 year contract and is clearly part of the list going forward?
Is that what you mean?
Cos I know you wouldnt be potting one of our own players, that wouldnt be what a true blues supporter would do, sounds more like what a tiger supporter would do.

If it sounds like I am on a bit of a crusade against our so called supporters bagging our own, you are right, I am. I have only been here a few months and have been appalled at the attitude of some so called supporters on here. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism or comparing one player with another and discussing who would be better suited to particular roles etc, but down right bagging is not on IMO. For example it is fair enough to say, 4 goals last season from 20 plus shots was a poor return from JR, but then Fish had a similar year kicking for goal and I would rather a player getting lots of shots off and missing than someone not getting the shots at goal at all, because sooner or later that kicking will straighten up. He has the skills but had a poor year and I am sure he and the coaching team are working on this part or any other dificiency in his game.

And for the record, even though I am new, I dont care if you are a veteran poster. Wrong is wrong and if we are all equal on here and I see a post I think is potting I will call you on it. If it is your right to post a pot then it is my right to post to call you on it.

And if you are potting him and want to justify it then please explain to me and others what makes you think you are a better selector than our current selectors, if you can convince me I will start a petition and get as many signitures as I can for you to replace the current selection committee. That is a promise. Until then or if you dont think you could replace our selectors then be a little more thoughtful in the way you go about it. By all means you can say you are not a fan, but to say a player is crap or a player is no good or weak, or whatever is not a good look. Some posters have their favorites and its not right that they should have to read such stuff about their favorite players. It just discourages people from posting or even reading this site.

Sorry Mods to get a bit off topic but I am sure you are getting well and truly full of posters potting our own.

l think you need to understand there is a difference between potting/being critical of a player as opposed to stating a fact that to date Jordan Russell although he played many games last year he is still not done very much for a top 10 draft selection, whilst we all hope he takes a step forward in 09, right at this point l would suggest he will need to improve significantly to even get a game this year as some of players such as Robinson, Armfield,Browne,Grigg etc looking like better options in the short & long term.

 

[Salaryman]

--
millers free...

we could then play finals this season & have him rebuild us for the next 5 years to almost play finals again..

ctacp
curlier than a catoggio pube

No comment

 

[40yearBLUE]

l think you need to understand there is a difference between potting/being critical of a player as opposed to stating a fact that to date Jordan Russell although he played many games last year he is still not done very much for a top 10 draft selection, whilst we all hope he takes a step forward in 09, right at this point l would suggest he will need to improve significantly to even get a game this year as some of players such as Robinson, Armfield,Browne,Grigg etc looking like better options in the short & long term.

Ok, lets look at this. First off the thread is about this last draft being our best not about the merits of partlicular players but I will put that aside, second the comment was not a critique of a players weakness, etc it was an open ended insinuation that he cant play or perhaps it wasnt and what he meant was "we all know what he is like......A GUN!" somehow I doubt it.

And finally lets look at JR critically then, last year he played 21 games and averaged 12.48 posessions per game, 20th overall at the club, not a great return you might say, but Kruezer who plays a lot of the time on ball so has many opportunities to gather possesions also played 21 games and averaged 9.75, 27th overall. No one is suggesting Kruze had a disappointing year, to the contrary he had an exellent first year, and perhaps you might argue that being a first year you would not expect him to do as well as a 3rd year player and Kruze certainly kicked more goals than JR an area I am sure JR was dissappointed with and is sure to be working on with the coaches.
JR was 5th last year in ave tackles per game at 3.29, Juddy 3rd on 3.86, Gibbs 4th on 3.48 all played 21 games, the team leader another much maligned player A Bentick on 5.71 from his 14 games. Inside 50's JR is 17th on 1.95, not good but ahead of Gibbs and Kruze. Marks taken JR is 15th on 5.19 ahead of Judd, Kruze, and Stevens players you would think would be higher than him, and a list headed by another player that cops his fair share of potters from his own supporters, Fish on 7.19 who also played 21 games last year and also had a poorer than usual return kicking for goals and missed many he would normally snag.
Unfortunatley I could not find the stats for 1%'s because I am sure JR would be right up on that one too.

Now if that list of stats does not convince you that JR is worthy of support then I dont know what will. That list shows you what the selectors know. He has the skills and he puts in and his stats have him in the top 20 at the club in all facets of the game. If you are in the top 20 you are in the team, it is pretty simple. Can he improve, hell yes. His kicking for goal last year let him down badly and perhaps I wouldnt be typing all this if he kicked straighter.

My point is some posters take a disliking to a player and once they do that they no longer see the good things they do only the mistakes they make and they get on here an take pot shots at them. Forgetting that to some posters that player is their favorite player. For example we even have posters suggesting that Carrots is no great loss ffs. Do I really have to defend a player like Carrots?

Just to finish I will give you an example of how we can become blinkered and how our opinions of a player can be offensive to other supporters. I used to hate a player we had, I dont remember why it started but I could not see a positive in him, I thought he must be dating Parkins daughter to be getting a game. Simon Beaumont. For me, every time he got the ball he turned it over and I would bag him mercilessly at the games. My friends I went with would disagree with me and tell me to stop bagging him. Then one day he kicks 8 goals in a half against Collingwood. Well didnt that shut me up! Obviously the selectors knew all along what he was capable of, but my prejudices blinded me to that until it had to be shoved down my throat. Well I got the message, hopefully some of the sledgers on here will too.

Most of the time the sledgers on here are suggestiing in their comments that the player they are sledging ought not be getting a game. How arrogant does a supporter have to be to think they know better than the entire selection committee. By all means lets discuss where players could improve or where they might be better suited and especially how we might be able to combat an oposition player with one of our own, etc, that is what I joined the forum for, intelligent positive discussion about our team, but open ended comments without supporting evidence that this player is this or that player is that are just a waste of everyones time. And suggesting they should not be getting games when they are selected by a team of experts is ego beyond comprehension by me. Its so easy being an armchair selector though isnt it.

PS of the players you mentioned being better options than JR (Grigg, Armfield, Browne, Robinson - yet to play a real game) not one of them except Grigg who finished higher in possesions at 13th with an ave of 15.7 to JR 20th 12.48 finished higher in any of the stats than JR. So where Grigg had more possessions, JR had more tackles. But the rest you mentioned all finished below JR in all stats so where you base your comment that they are better choices I dont know. I think they are all going to be part of our team, I am not being critical of them, they all have different roles to play. But is JR part of our best 22, well the stats suggest he is, the selectors certainly thought he was last year in 21 of the 22 so that is good enough for me. I wouldnt mind betting he is in the 22 come Rd 1 and if he runs out in the Navy Blue he has my FULL support.

 

[THE AISSASSIN]

I think all the above mentioned shows that broad statistics are not that helpful when analysing a player.

Its not how many possies you get but how you get them and what you do with them, and how you fared relative to your direct opponent amongst other things.

We all watch the games and we often have different levels of appreciation for different players.

Accept this - just because you think someone is good dosnt make anothers opinion wrong and vice versa.

Ppl should be able to discuss our players from both a positive and negative point of view here.

I for one cannot fall in love with every player that comes to Carlton and think they will all be guns.

I hated picking up Ackland, there are others on our list now I dont think are good enough.....

I just wish ppl would trust what they see instead of bringing up stats to show why a player is or isnt good

 

[Faz 2000]

Since when is someone not a "true Carlton supporter" if they think we have a lousy player on our list?

You're confusing "true" Carlton supporter with "one-eyed" Carlton supporter. A true Carlton supporter loves the club however they like, and wants them to succeed. I'd put myself in that category. A one-eyed Carlton supporter won't let anyone say a nasty thing about anyone on the roster, tends to think we get screwed by the umps each game, and has Carlton pencilled in for top 4 this year. They're great, but what they say needs to be taken with a grain of salt - you have to wade through their Carlton-bias to get to any sane position.

I think Jordan Russell is crap. I'm annoyed we drafted him, and I've seen so very very little from him that suggests he's about to be AFL-quality. If he does - GREAT! I'm wrong, and I'll support him. It's not that I WANT him to fail, it's just that I don't yet see anything that warrants a spot on Carlton's list. Hopefully he'll make fools of all of us who think he's lousy this year. That would be tremendous. That would make a massive difference to Carlton.

I love Carlton as much as the next guy, but that doesn't mean I think our selectors always get it right, or our recruiters always get it right, or any given player on our list is great.

 

[Salaryman]

I think Jordan Russell is crap

I think it's throw away lines like this which rile posters.

Perception is a funny thing......from the intra-club i still think JR is one of the best movers and with the obvious exception of Judd, Gibbs, Stevo, Hoops and Yarran, is one of the better skilled players on the list....to the contrary of what you see, I reckon he has AFL player stamped all over him.....which just highlights to me again that with JR it is 95% above the shoulders.