List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[HK_Bulldog]

I don't think any of the youngsters are poor kicks, with the possible exception of Smith every now and then. But in my view none of them are particularly good kicks. Depending on your definitions they are all mediocre or at best average when it comes to precision passing through (or over) the zone. Hunter is the one I thought a bit about - cause he is a pretty good kick over short distances. But not so much over 40m+.

Apart from that - Stringer, MacRae, Hrovat, Libba, JJ - all of them are great players in the making I feel. And all of them have great smarts. And all of them score a pass mark with their kicking. That's why I used the word "mediocre", not "poor". They will all play valuable roles in our team, and could be potential AAs. But compare their passing to Suckling or Guerra (or Gilbee!) Not even close. We need SOMEONE to deliver those killer passes out of the backline and into the forward line. It is such a vital skill in modern footy. You can't just pop the ball to advantage in one-on-one contests and hope for the best. It needs to be centimetre perfect. And I don't know who will do that for us once Murphy and (at his best) Higgins are gone.

We had a golden opportunity to address that this year. And we've chosen another "kick to advantage" merchant. Solid. Just like the rest.

But hey, I guess we can agree to disagree. Hope you're right, mike!

P.S. I do like that we're drafting quality hard workers. Bontempelli seems like a good fellow, who will provide us with some great footy. I think this will be a fun team to support over the years. But like I said, I'm just worried that if we don't get the balance right, we'll fall short. AGAIN.

I would also like a Gilbee / Rich / Eagleton / Akermanis rocket leg but Aish won't give you that either. He struggles to kick 40+ as well from what I've seen. I'll defer to the more avid draft watches to an opinion on whether he spears the ball or loops it to advantage.

 

[HK_Bulldog]

[te="Chris Grant, post: 30993306, member: 133226"]Dannnnnnnnnn summed it up pretty well. The only thing I don't agree on is KK does get more of the ball.

For what it's worth I do agree with you, I'd pick KK over Bontempelli.[/quote]

I'd like to add that Kolo positions like a defender, likes to sweep, receive and run from behind. Like a Gilbee. Bontempelli positions as a midfielder / forward so they have different game instincts.

 

[Doggies_13]

Not sure at all about Bontempelli, I would be going for either Billings or KK, I really don't see the the upside that everyone is talking about with Bontempelli and if he grows much more we would have to hope he can play key position, he is extremely inconsistent and and average only moderate possession numbers, would love some stats that support that he has huge upside not just speculation and guessing.
I think KK is a safe bet, the way he reads the play, uses the football and accumulates touches is impressive, yes there are doubts that he can translate that to the midfield but if he stays at half back we have two dangerous running defenders in JJ and him, the top teams usually get a lot of drive from their backline. Also means we woudn't have Cooney and Macrae playing out of the back line which provides more run through the midfield and i see Hunter and Hrovat providing drive through the middle along with Dahl.

 

[MJ_Dogs]

Not sure if it's been posted yet, but Emma Quayle has an article on Bontempelli. http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...opeful-marcus-bontempelli-20131119-2xtc4.html He seems to be the flavour of the day.

Interesting that he said he wanted to find how to "handle" tags because he was struggling with it....so Aish wasnt the only player to get tagged afterall

 

[footyfan000001]

You'd say that Bontempelli will probably grow more then as he is young ? He is already 192cm - surely midfielders aren't that tall? Can he play as a key forward?

 

[Mofra]

Both Stringer and Macrea were boom/bust prospects as opposed to Sam Mayes, and TBH, I was nervous about them both. Currently Mayes is probably ahead, but think most of us are happy with our recruiters judgement there.

Disagree on this - Mayes had largely the same question marks Billings did about his ability to be come a midfielder, played predominately forward in his draft year.

Macrae has the intangible, the ability to buy time with ball in hand. If there is a skill in AFL that cannot be taught, it would be this.

 

[Mofra]

You'd say that Bontempelli will probably grow more then as he is young ? He is already 192cm - surely midfielders aren't that tall? Can he play as a key forward?

Bottom 10% for 20m sprint at draft camp, so I'd say no - he wont get that important separation from his opponent.

 

[footyfan000001]

Bottom 10% for 20m sprint at draft camp, so I'd say no - he wont get that important separation from his opponent.

Leg speed and good kicking skills are the things we are lacking. So we are choosing another slow, inside mid over Aish?

 

[doggies ftw]

Leg speed and good kicking skills are the things we are lacking. So we are choosing another slow, inside mid over Aish?

Wrong

 

[footyfan000001]

Wrong

Explain

 

[Chris Grant]

Bottom 10% for 20m sprint at draft camp, so I'd say no - he wont get that important separation from his opponent.

Bottom 10% over 10m, Bottom 20% over 20m. He has good top speed, agility and endurance. I think he would be fine at CHF.

 

[Aldo]

Footy Tragic write up for Bontempelli:

#7 – MARCUS BONTEMPELLI
Height: 194cm, Weight: 84kg, DOB: 24/11/1995
Recruited from: Northern Knights

Bontempelli’s still a bit of an unknown quantity in this draft. He falls in the category of ‘could be anything’ which is scary in itself because most draft profiles with those words in it stereotypically describe a player with outstanding athletic ability but zero football nous. Luckily Bontempelli doesn’t fit that description, although I do agree that he ‘could be anything’, but he falls at number seven because it would be fair to stay that I’m still slightly on the fence with him. He has been so inconsistent; his good games make him look like a number one pick but he has some fairly average games where he struggles to find much of the footy.

Bontempelli broke his collarbone last year, but he still managed to play nine games for the Northern Knights as an underage player. He averaged 16 disposals to go with 3 inside 50’s and tackles per game. This year he was much better, albeit still inconsistent, averaging 21 disposals through the TAC Cup in his nine games including 15 goals. He was fairly quiet at the Champs, playing four games and averaging 14 disposals at 79% efficiency.

Bontempelli is long, rangy and can play in a variety of positions. He mostly plays in the midfield but he is capable of playing as a marking forward or even in the backline. He’s a really unique player in that he’s so tall, and he is extremely difficult to tackle in the midfield. He hasn’t quite developed his inside game yet, but with his size he should be able to become a factor in there. At the moment he’s mostly an outside player and he’s quite damaging when he’s on.

His disposal is normally pretty good and he has a very good reputation with his kicking. He has a decent looking kicking style but at the same time I find it a bit weird. He doesn’t kick it that far for someone who looks like he could give it a real launch. From what I’ve seen 45m to 50m is about his limit at the moment and I think it partially has to do with his connection. I’ve tried to analyse his technique and to me it looks like he kicks with a bent knee. There is minimal ‘snap’ with the knee which would give power and penetration. His long kicks seem a bit loopy and take a while to get to the destination. I might just be over-analysing it, but there’s something that doesn’t look right. Having said all that, I only really have a problem with his long kicks. His short-kicking game is fine and he can fire in a nice low pass into the forward line.

In tight Bontempelli is pretty good. He has quick and sharp hands and below the knees he’s fine. He looks extremely classy when out in space and he has a very nice sidestep or baulk from his right to left side. His decision making is normally very good, but sometimes he just has that problem with execution.

Athletically Bontempelli isn’t the quickest but I think he looks quicker than he tests. He takes very long strides and he’s just so hard to tackle that I don’t think speed is much of an issue. He always manages to keep his arms free when he is getting tackled so this is a major asset for him on the inside and can off-set his lack of acceleration. I think once he hits top speed he’s fine, it’s just getting off the mark. His endurance is very good, running a 14.7 beep test at the Combine. His agility was in the top 46% but I was surprised he didn’t rank higher. As I mentioned, he has a nice sidestep, especially on the run.

Bontempelli is an extremely attractive prospect. His versatility is massively appealing but so is his obvious size that could be a major weapon in the midfield. Consistency is his biggest issue and it’s why I’m still conservative on him. He has absolutely busted a couple of games open and on his day he’s a match winner that is close to unstoppable. He has also had some fairly average days and bridging the gap between those is what his biggest challenge will be. The scary thing is that he’s probably still growing, so who knows what he’ll become.

 

[josh the gent]

Agreed, Can't see us having another top 5 pick for a long time if we don't get one next year. So we certainly cannot waste it and unfortunately i feel if we take Bontempelli it will be a waste since like you said mathematically there is a small chance he will be a superstar. I just don't see this one working out for us in all honesty. If we wanted Bontempelli its a shame we couldn't work out a way to trade our pick #4 for something like pick #9 + 14 (Would of probably nabbed us something like Bontempelli + Acres) i do understand a trade like that would of been almost impossible to orchestrate. Maybe Collingwood would of taken Bonts since they have 2 picks in the top #10 although i couldn't see them taking him at #6 with guys like Aish//KK/Scharenburger etc.

Word is that Bontempelli will be taken by the Pies at pick 6 if he's available.

He's not a massive reach at 4, even if Aish appears a more logical choice.

 

[doggies ftw]

Explain

It's just really his first 5m that was slow at the combine, once he gets going he is quite fast and personally I think his acceleration can be improved when he gets a bit stronger/more powerful, and then there's a few reports from people saying when watching him they felt his first few steps were really quick. He's not super fast or anything but he's far from slow and makes up for it with his great agility and endurance, and at 194cm you must admit those attributes are very impressive.

At this stage of his career he is better on the outside but the reason people are excited for him is because of the rapid improvement he showed on the inside throughout the latter part of the year (which Aish didn't) and he projects really well as a very complete mid who wins his own ball and has nice clean hands around the packs and can pull off some very damaging handbells to set players up, links up well on the outside and has a nice long kick, but also a very good marking option through the middle who can rest forward and be very dangerous.

 

[black pup]

Bontempelli will be a great pick at 4,, as I I have been saying on here for weeks, the negativity of some of the posts on here are amazing. I hope the sun comes up tomorrow morning for some of these poor bastards.
Our recruiting at the club since Macca's arrival has been terrific, his idea of a points system a player must reach to be drafted by the club is outstanding, a panel of 4, who have put hours into this will come up with pick 4, sure have your choice, but stop the knocking and the negative crap. I would hate to be Bontempelli reading some of this.

 

[Mofra]

Bottom 10% over 10m, Bottom 20% over 20m. He has good top speed, agility and endurance. I think he would be fine at CHF.

Initial speed is more critical for KPP than top-line speed. Separation is what coaches look for in a key position prospect.

It was a major flaw in Panos' game, he had almost everything else.

 

[doggies ftw]

I think that write up from footytragic up there will probably bring a few more people to the Bontempelli bandwagon, makes me even more confident that he was impressed with his short kicking hitting up targets but with question marks over his long kicking, which I'm more of the opposite so it's good to know he can do that too.

 

[Mutt]

You could be right about our midfield, but it will be interesting to see how the interchange cap effects such matters. Personally I think BMac has been building a game plan around it since day one. We've clearly valued physical and mental endurance over pure silk in our last few drafts. If we go with Bonce over Aish the only logical explanation would be that their trying to build a grind-house across the field. I doubt that'll make us flat-track bullies like time gone by, but it will surely come with it's own challenges.




Drafting appears to get weird at times. I like Aish and think we should totally pick him, however he's got a lot of Daniel Rich about him. Every chance that he'll step in straight away and be valuable, but won't improve dramatically or rapidly from what he has. In 2008, Rich slid from a lock Top 3 player, to pick 7 because teams got spooked about his upside. I think a lot of it is flow on from the Tigers drafting Tambling. People forget that he was a sure fire bet as a junior. Terry Wallace himself has noted that they were trying to take the safe option, but unfortunately for them, the improvement just wasn't there. People also forget the Jack Watts was supposed to be the sure thing, while NicNat was more speculative.

I think Aish is going to be a gun, but I'm not in player development and have no idea what any of these guys scope out to look like. I can understand the mentality that you're taking a risk with pretty well every player you draft top 5, why not go with the kid so you see something special in. It's interesting how Billings has shoot up in people opinion based purely on the prospect he'll be a midfielder one day, where as far as I can tell he's played mostly as a small forward in the TAC.

Both Stringer and Macrea were boom/bust prospects as opposed to Sam Mayes, and TBH, I was nervous about them both. Currently Mayes is probably ahead, but think most of us are happy with our recruiters judgement there.

Sod it. Bring on Thursday and we'll work it from there.

Quality this ^^.

 

[True Dog]

Word is that Bontempelli will be taken by the Pies at pick 6 if he's available.

He's not a massive reach at 4, even if Aish appears a more logical choice.

Heard the same thing, funny how he's good enough at 6 but a massive risk at 4.... FWIW it see the same risks in most of the top ten or so picks this year (I think all will make it but have a lot to work on), except for Boyd and my boy the Berg...

 

[House_of_Dahl]

But when you look at the repeat sprints Bonts moves up into the top 50% - because he has excellent endurance/fitness - which is a more realistic stat than a cold sprint anyway in a real-game scenario. He can run all day and I can imagine him running most tall defenders too exhuastion.

But anyway he would be drafted as tall, versatile mid, who can also play forward - not as a KPF. Sure he might have potential there (certainly has some exciting attributes for that role), but that wont be the main reason we would be drafting him - it's too unknown. Someone posted his growth (height) over the last 12 months and it was enourmous (like 10 cm or something?), so it would only be in recent times that KPF postitioning would have come into consideration.

 

[stefoid]

And his writeup of scharenberg for comparison

#3 – MATT SCHARENBERG
Height: 191cm, Weight: 88kg, DOB: 18/9/1995
Recruited from: Glenelg

Matt Scharenberg will be an absolute star and I’m still having trouble comprehending how he could possibly get past the Saints at pick three. Scharenberg is one of those players who can be whoever you want him to be. He can play tall down back or up forward, play loose, or have a run on the wing. I think his best position is off the half-back flank because his disposal is such a weapon that it has to be utilised in the most dangerous part of the ground these days.

Firstly, just a couple of words on this supposed injury. Drafting is a ten year game. I’d be loathing if my club passed on a top three player (in my opinion, for argument’s sake) just because he might require some surgery that will sideline him for a while. It doesn’t make sense to me and the fact Scharenberg is a very good chance to go at pick SEVEN or later makes me scratch my head. Maybe I’m unaware of the extent of his foot issues, and I’m not a doctor, but seriously if surgery and six months on the sidelines is what it will take to mean that I can enjoy Scharenberg coming off my backline for the next dozen years, I’m taking that deal.

Anyway, for me, he’s clearly in the top bracket of players and one guy I can confidently say will be a very good, if not elite AFL footballer. Scharenberg along with Kade Kolodjashnij, Jack Billings and Tom Boyd are probably the best kicks in this draft in my opinion. Scharenberg for me is a bit of a mix with Sam Fisher and Brendon Goddard, in that he can play tall, provide run, but also transform himself into any player you need him to be on the day.

Scharenberg has put together three fine seasons now. He was very good at the U/16 National Carnival averaging 16 disposals and 4 inside 50’s. He played eight games in Glenelg’s U/18 team, averaging 17 disposals and kicking 11 goals. Scharenberg also went on to represent South Australia at last year’s National Championships, averaging 21 disposals and 7 marks across half-back which earned him an All-Australian nod. He’s played limited seniors footy for Glenelg for the past two seasons, where he averaged almost 16 disposals and 4 marks in his four matches this season. Scharenberg was runner-up to Dom Sheed in this year’s Larke Medal for the best player at the National Championships. He played predominantly off half-back, averaging 22 disposals and 6 marks at 74% efficiency and he also got his second All-Australian gong.

His honours are bloody impressive, but so is his footy. Scharenberg is the smartest player on the ground. He dictates things behind the ball like a quarter-back (I hate using that term in footy but I will use it anyway) and his reading of the play is elite. He will be one of the top intercept players in the competition. His positioning of the body in marking contests is second-to-none and he will constantly out-mark key forwards. He is a brilliant judge of the ball in the air and his overhead marking is very good and his hands are sticky. There aren’t too many fumbles or panicky moments with Scharenberg, he’s as safe as they come.

With ball in hand the Berg is a treat. I think his kicking doesn’t get as many plaudits as it should. He has great penetration on his kicks and I’ll reckon he’ll be able to cover around 60 metres in time. He has a lovely, easy action and most importantly he makes great decisions. He’s also dual-sided. I’ve seen him pierce low passes on his left foot. Scharenberg doesn’t totally play safe. He loves to have a run and take the game on, especially from an intercept which is great, because scores from turnovers are paramount. He’s a half-back that controls the tempo of the game and hell if he’s a quarter-back; he’s a point guard as well.

I have no issue with Scharenberg athletically. He didn’t test at the Combine but he seems to have really good acceleration and agility. His leap would be up top I’m guessing and his engine seems fine.

Can he play in the midfield? My answer is yes, and who cares. Seriously, I’ve seen people ask “why would we spend a top pick on a half-back flanker?” Well that would just be underselling Scharenberg. He is the most versatile player in this draft but there is no bloody shame in being a half-back as well. Don’t rule out the Berg moving forward. He’s had experience there and done well. It’s a great little trick to have up your sleeve if you’re having a bad day or getting tagged as I’m sure he will.

Every pick he falls below pick three will be 100 shakes of the head from me (looks like I’ll have a sore neck) because this bloke will be a star.

Footy Tragic write up for Bontempelli:

#7 – MARCUS BONTEMPELLI
Height: 194cm, Weight: 84kg, DOB: 24/11/1995
Recruited from: Northern Knights

Bontempelli’s still a bit of an unknown quantity in this draft. He falls in the category of ‘could be anything’ which is scary in itself because most draft profiles with those words in it stereotypically describe a player with outstanding athletic ability but zero football nous. Luckily Bontempelli doesn’t fit that description, although I do agree that he ‘could be anything’, but he falls at number seven because it would be fair to stay that I’m still slightly on the fence with him. He has been so inconsistent; his good games make him look like a number one pick but he has some fairly average games where he struggles to find much of the footy.

Bontempelli broke his collarbone last year, but he still managed to play nine games for the Northern Knights as an underage player. He averaged 16 disposals to go with 3 inside 50’s and tackles per game. This year he was much better, albeit still inconsistent, averaging 21 disposals through the TAC Cup in his nine games including 15 goals. He was fairly quiet at the Champs, playing four games and averaging 14 disposals at 79% efficiency.

Bontempelli is long, rangy and can play in a variety of positions. He mostly plays in the midfield but he is capable of playing as a marking forward or even in the backline. He’s a really unique player in that he’s so tall, and he is extremely difficult to tackle in the midfield. He hasn’t quite developed his inside game yet, but with his size he should be able to become a factor in there. At the moment he’s mostly an outside player and he’s quite damaging when he’s on.

His disposal is normally pretty good and he has a very good reputation with his kicking. He has a decent looking kicking style but at the same time I find it a bit weird. He doesn’t kick it that far for someone who looks like he could give it a real launch. From what I’ve seen 45m to 50m is about his limit at the moment and I think it partially has to do with his connection. I’ve tried to analyse his technique and to me it looks like he kicks with a bent knee. There is minimal ‘snap’ with the knee which would give power and penetration. His long kicks seem a bit loopy and take a while to get to the destination. I might just be over-analysing it, but there’s something that doesn’t look right. Having said all that, I only really have a problem with his long kicks. His short-kicking game is fine and he can fire in a nice low pass into the forward line.

In tight Bontempelli is pretty good. He has quick and sharp hands and below the knees he’s fine. He looks extremely classy when out in space and he has a very nice sidestep or baulk from his right to left side. His decision making is normally very good, but sometimes he just has that problem with execution.

Athletically Bontempelli isn’t the quickest but I think he looks quicker than he tests. He takes very long strides and he’s just so hard to tackle that I don’t think speed is much of an issue. He always manages to keep his arms free when he is getting tackled so this is a major asset for him on the inside and can off-set his lack of acceleration. I think once he hits top speed he’s fine, it’s just getting off the mark. His endurance is very good, running a 14.7 beep test at the Combine. His agility was in the top 46% but I was surprised he didn’t rank higher. As I mentioned, he has a nice sidestep, especially on the run.

Bontempelli is an extremely attractive prospect. His versatility is massively appealing but so is his obvious size that could be a major weapon in the midfield. Consistency is his biggest issue and it’s why I’m still conservative on him. He has absolutely busted a couple of games open and on his day he’s a match winner that is close to unstoppable. He has also had some fairly average days and bridging the gap between those is what his biggest challenge will be. The scary thing is that he’s probably still growing, so who knows what he’ll become.

 

[Reptilia]

I hope all this hype about bontempelli doesn't get st Kilda or GWS into him..!!

 

[Aldo]

Yeah, reading Footy Tragic's write up of Scharenberg makes me want him even more than I already do. I've resigned myself to the fact that we're getting Bontempelli, and I don't mind it. I really like him, just a couple of guys like Scharenberg and Kolodjashnij who I'd prefer. As long as Scharenberg doesn't go to Collingwood, I'll be ok.

 

[Chris Grant]

Initial speed is more critical for KPP than top-line speed. Separation is what coaches look for in a key position prospect.

It was a major flaw in Panos' game, he had almost everything else.

I don't see initial speed as critical across half forward, most of the time they are pushing up to the wings/half back and are running back hard. It would certainly be better if he had that initial burst, but I don't think it's a big issue when played further up the ground.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

FWIW as I said in my write up Bont is smart enough with his positioning and movement to compensate for his slow acceleration. Combine that with borderline ridiculous endurance for his height at this stage and you've got a really tricky forward to defend. BUT - if you're taking him at pick 4 to be a forward, you're doing it wrong.

Decision supposedly being finalised at a meeting this afternoon.