List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[doggies ftw]

We can upgrade goodes and still use all 3 picks in the draft. I think we should. And then brush 2 of greenwood, Jong and redpath and have 2 rookie selections as well.

Yep thats what I would be doing fronk, delisting Addo, Greenwood and Jong, upgrading Goodes, and going to the draft with 4, 42, 60 and two rookie picks. To go along with Crameri and Darley, while the best player we would be losing is Addo. Would be very happy with that.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Yep thats what I would be doing fronk, delisting Addo, Greenwood and Jong, upgrading Goodes, and going to the draft with 4, 42, 60 and two rookie picks. To go along with Crameri and Darley, while the best player we would be losing is Addo. Would be very happy with that.

I think you're looking too short term.

If we followed your plan, we'd have five spots to fill - four of them after the purported drop off in talent after pick 25ish. This is a very shallow draft and making huge list changes through the draft this year is a very poor choice.

Contrast that with next year. So far it's called the "KPP super draft", with some very talented runners as well. With the changes we've made this year (out: Addison, Lower, Cross, Vez, Marko) it allows us to do this next year (as an example):

OUT - Howard, Gia, Boyd (think he's almost done), Tutt, Williams (with a heavy heart), Redpath, Greenwood, Jong.
IN - free agent from the great lineup, four draft picks in a strong draft and three rookies.

This year's list management is as much about avoiding making radical changes in a bad year to do so as it is preparing for the future. We have a much better opportunity to do so next year (or at least it appears so at this point - if that perception doesn't remain then we haven't lost a lot).

 

[doggies ftw]

I think you're looking too short term.

If we followed your plan, we'd have five spots to fill - four of them after the purported drop off in talent after pick 25ish. This is a very shallow draft and making huge list changes through the draft this year is a very poor choice.

Contrast that with next year. So far it's called the "KPP super draft", with some very talented runners as well. With the changes we've made this year (out: Addison, Lower, Cross, Vez, Marko) it allows us to do this next year (as an example):

OUT - Howard, Gia, Boyd (think he's almost done), Tutt, Williams (with a heavy heart), Redpath, Greenwood, Jong.
IN - free agent from the great lineup, four draft picks in a strong draft and three rookies.

This year's list management is as much about avoiding making radical changes in a bad year to do so as it is preparing for the future. We have a much better opportunity to do so next year (or at least it appears so at this point - if that perception doesn't remain then we haven't lost a lot).

I think the drop off in talent is a little overstated on here to be honest, sure it might be a little harder to find good players late than most drafts but there will still be talent available at 42 and 60 and I hope we use those picks, like you mentioned before we could end up with Brown and JK at those picks, which fits our needs perfectly.

I do see where you're coming from on holding off on our rookies so we can take them next year in a stronger draft but personally I would prefer to get a year of development into our new rookies rather than keeping Greenwood/Jong/Redpath just to be delisted next year. And besides if we delist Jong and Greenwood now and bring in two new rookies next year we will have to either upgrade or delist Austin and Redpath bringing in another two new rookies, I'd rather us have 2 this year and 2 next year than 4 next year. I think its good to cycle through two new rookies every year, giving them all 2 years to show something. Obviously some will be kept on for 3 years and some might be upgraded after 1 so you cant just go religiously by that but its a good way to run things IMO.

I also think that after this year we shouldn't be making huge changes to the list and it should be pretty set with a few changes each year to keep things fresh, we should probably be starting to move up the ladder from here on out and making huge changes in that period isn't exactly ideal. With your outs in Howard, Gia, Boyd, Tutt and Williams thats already 5 changes to the main list which is a fair few and who knows what will happen next year, Murphy and Morris might fall off a cliff, Higgins might hang up the boots after another injury too. I would just prefer to make a few changes every year tbh and wouldn't be holding out on making neccessary changes now just to make them next year when things could change in that draft quite a bit, I'm also expecting us not to get any of the highly rated KPPs, maybe a 2nd tier one but just can't see us getting one of those absolute gun top 5 ones that everyone wants.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Bontempelli's draft profile today.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-26/26-days-to-the-draft-meet-marcus-bontempelli

Some risk, but I'd be excited if we ended up with Bontempelli

 

[BRG93]

I Actually wouldn't mind getting Conlon before watching his 3min Highlight I thought he was Cordy 2.0 but afterwards was really impressed

 

[doggies ftw]

I Actually wouldn't mind getting Conlon before watching his 3min Highlight I thought he was Cordy 2.0 but afterwards was really impressed

If we can get him at 42 and he stays injury free it will be an absolute steal.

 

[Super Hans]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-26/26-days-to-the-draft-meet-marcus-bontempelli

Some risk, but I'd be excited if we ended up with Bontempelli

Would be good to have some height in the midfield. I think pick four is a little early for him though.

 

[doggies ftw]

I Actually wouldn't mind getting Conlon before watching his 3min Highlight I thought he was Cordy 2.0 but afterwards was really impressed

Also pretty sure those highlights were from last year as well, don't think he played any games this year and I think I might have seen Hrovat in one of the clips. Would have loved to see what he could have done this year.

Would probably prefer him to Brown at 42. If we can pull off something like Aish, Conlon and JK with our 3 picks that would be great.

 

[VitalDread]

Western Bulldogs
Pick 4: If Billings and Kelly are gone by pick four, the Dogs will have the option of taking James Aish, a South Australian midfielder who has played in two SANFL flags with Norwood. An old-style wingman with excellent skill level and footy smarts.
Around the mark: Jack Billings, Kade Kolodjashnij, Matt Scharenberg

 

[black pup]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-26/26-days-to-the-draft-meet-marcus-bontempelli

Some risk, but I'd be excited if we ended up with Bontempelli

I hope we take Bontempelli, great size, pace, and so much upside, blokes with athletic ability don't come along everyday, Aish, Billings, we have, or can recruit with an early pick anytime.

 

[fronkalicious]

Just went for a run and spent the whole time thinking out how the first 4 picks in the draft will go.

1. Gws - Boyd. No brainer
2. Gws - billings. Their midfield is stacked. Ward, scully, treloar, shiel, Whitfield, orourke, Greene, coniglio, Hoskins-Elliot. So they pass on aish and Kelly. They took plowman last year as their 3rd tall/running back. They have buntine, shaw and Hampton as well. So they pass on scharenberg. They have their key forwards set obviously, but lack a classy medium forward. Enter billings.
3. St kilda - Kelly. They land a premium, 250 game midfield gun and potential future captain. No go home factor as there may be with aish.
4. Dogs - aish. Absolutely perfect fit for us. Would be a great result.

 

[Beasley]

This our current situation;

• 37 senior players (allowed 38-40)
• 5 rookies (allowed 4-6)
• Current on list 42 (allowed 44)

I think we will get rid of Addison to allow 3 players to be added, plus an upgrade for Goodes.
Looking at the rookie list, there is every chance that Greenwood, Jong and Redpath could go, leaving Austin and allowing for three new rookie selections.

 

[doggies ftw]

Just went for a run and spent the whole time thinking out how the first 4 picks in the draft will go.

1. Gws - Boyd. No brainer
2. Gws - billings. Their midfield is stacked. Ward, scully, treloar, shiel, Whitfield, orourke, Greene, coniglio, Hoskins-Elliot. So they pass on aish and Kelly. They took plowman last year as their 3rd tall/running back. They have buntine, shaw and Hampton as well. So they pass on scharenberg. They have their key forwards set obviously, but lack a classy medium forward. Enter billings.
3. St kilda - Kelly. They land a premium, 250 game midfield gun and potential future captain. No go home factor as there may be with aish.
4. Dogs - aish. Absolutely perfect fit for us. Would be a great result.

Could definitely see that happening fronk, makes perfect sense for GWS to take Billings, they have even labelled a HFF as a need publicly.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I think the drop off in talent is a little overstated on here to be honest, sure it might be a little harder to find good players late than most drafts but there will still be talent available at 42 and 60 and I hope we use those picks, like you mentioned before we could end up with Brown and JK at those picks, which fits our needs perfectly.

This is mostly where we differ then. Talent drops off quite a bit personally and it's why we saw so much scrambling with the later picks in the trade period. Richmond traded a reasonably good pick for Shaun Hampson FFS - clubs don't rate the talent and neither do I really.

I do see where you're coming from on holding off on our rookies so we can take them next year in a stronger draft but personally I would prefer to get a year of development into our new rookies rather than keeping Greenwood/Jong/Redpath just to be delisted next year. And besides if we delist Jong and Greenwood now and bring in two new rookies next year we will have to either upgrade or delist Austin and Redpath bringing in another two new rookies, I'd rather us have 2 this year and 2 next year than 4 next year. I think its good to cycle through two new rookies every year, giving them all 2 years to show something. Obviously some will be kept on for 3 years and some might be upgraded after 1 so you cant just go religiously by that but its a good way to run things IMO.

I'm not suggesting we keep them on just to be delisted though. Greenwood I agree is a baffling decision. Redpath showed some great signs in his first few games as a defender (ever!) but struggled with injury and didn't get enough opportunity due to that (and suspensions). The club rates him. Has he done enough to get another year? No, but the promise he showed combined with the club not wanting to make too many changes this year makes it a somewhat logical decision. Jong has shown something at AFL level so is worth keeping for another year. If the club doesn't rate the players likely to be available in the rookie draft, why should they delist current rookies just for guys they expect to be delisted in a year? Too many clubs cycle as frequently as you're suggesting and it ends in first-year rookie delistings. If we expect this draft to offer too many of those 'potholes' then there's no point us cycling out players we think can offer something who we've invested time and energy into.

I also think that after this year we shouldn't be making huge changes to the list and it should be pretty set with a few changes each year to keep things fresh, we should probably be starting to move up the ladder from here on out and making huge changes in that period isn't exactly ideal. With your outs in Howard, Gia, Boyd, Tutt and Williams thats already 5 changes to the main list which is a fair few and who knows what will happen next year, Murphy and Morris might fall off a cliff, Higgins might hang up the boots after another injury too. I would just prefer to make a few changes every year tbh and wouldn't be holding out on making neccessary changes now just to make them next year when things could change in that draft quite a bit, I'm also expecting us not to get any of the highly rated KPPs, maybe a 2nd tier one but just can't see us getting one of those absolute gun top 5 ones that everyone wants.

Richmond have made over 30 changes in three years and it's got them into finals. It isn't as clear cut as, "When you're moving up the ladder, don't make too many changes," it just doesn't work that way because every list is different. My point is that there's no point delisting 7 players that we think could get somewhere this year because of how shallow the draft is perceived to be. We're better off giving these players one more year, see if they get anywhere, and if they don't we take advantage of a much deeper draft.

I also don't see us coming out of the bottom 5-7 so I still think we'll get one of those top guys. Too many teams around us had bad years or will improve just as much as we will.

 

[Super Hans]

I'll back whoever we pick, I don't think drafting the player is the important part, developing them is.

Look at Melbourne. From 08-12 I think they only 'reached' for one player (Lucas Cook). The rest were almost certainly rated as best available, they just couldn't develop them to save themselves.

 

[Ridley This]

I have a question that may have already been answered.
To elevate Goodes this year, to we need to make room on our list? Didn't we have him as a 5th Rookie?

With 4 out and 2 in (currently) that ought leave us Pick 4, 42 and a rookie upgrade.
If it's a choice between Addison (admittedly the weak link) and pick 60, I'd rather keep him.

 

[GrandBlue]

Ben Warren anyone? Leading goalscorer in the VFL, super endurance and was decent at AFL Level for North Melbourne.

 

[fronkalicious]

I actually do think teams keep players on lists, knowing it's highly highly likely they'll be delisted in 12 months time. Vez was a good example this year. Of course they hope they come good, but teams need to consider that new draftees sign 2 year contracts, so if we delisted 2 more now, that's 2 fewer selections we'd have next year. Might explain Howard's retention (I'm still a fan by the way).

 

[Tommycash]

We can upgrade goodes and still use all 3 picks in the draft. I think we should. And then brush 2 of greenwood, Jong and redpath and have 2 rookie selections as well.

I suppose then you believe Addison is gone. Because otherwise 6 doesn't replace 4. Even with a spare senior spot.

 

[JAMES_B_101]

glad we're at pick 4. rate most players around here highly so no matter who we take or end up with I'll be happy provided they aren't another inside mid as we have a truckload. KK and Scharenberg would both be good fits, aish or kelly also, if we reach for someone like Lennon, Bontempelli or Freeman I would be happy too. All could be in the AFL system for a very long time and all could improve our squad. Even Billings would fit. I have faith in the club, as we have drafted very well recently. They will make the right decision.

 

[Tommycash]

Richmond have made over 30 changes in three years and it's got them into finals.

I hope the only lesson we learn from Richmond, is not to do a Richmond.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I hope the only lesson we learn from Richmond, is not to do a Richmond.

Hardly the point though. Their strategy over the past few years saw them get into finals this year and they're still on the up. It was just an example to demonstrate that there isn't a clear cut way to manage your list when you're beginning to climb.

 

[Tommycash]

Hardly the point though. Their strategy over the past few years saw them get into finals this year and they're still on the up. It was just an example to demonstrate that there isn't a clear cut way to manage your list when you're beginning to climb.

Even less of my point! But we at least both got our intended messages out hahaha.

 

[maddog37]

Ben Warren anyone? Leading goalscorer in the VFL, super endurance and was decent at AFL Level for North Melbourne.

I see where you are coming from but who does he replace in our forward line?

 

[Reptilia]

I somewhat hope we get to use 60; would probably allow us to take one of Vandeleur/Kolodjashnij. Picking up some class, a project ruckman/forward and a third tall defender in, say, Aish, Brown and Vandeleur would tick all the boxes imo. I really doubt we'll use it though.

agree with this. We are taking best available with first pick and if that isnt Scharenberg/KK I really hope we get a few more defenders as that is what we are lacking for the future.