List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[yebiga]

The Trade period was Dodorod: the draft Bontempellied

 

[Mutt]

Actually its not a shocking argument because your welcome to search through my posts and be astounded at my unnerving accuracy.
As to the 4 more minutes of highlights they very useful
The various write ups, the stats, and it all paints a picture
Alternatively, I do go to games but with 36 players or more players on the field it is often more difficult to reach conclusions unless you follow someone intently for weeks, seasons.
So in the end, we are all running half blind on this even the recruiters.

Who has watched the prospective recruits play live more often - yebiga or the Bulldogs recruiting team? Who has watched the prospective recruits on tape more often - yebiga or the Bulldogs recruiting team?
Who is paid to be a professional talent spotter - yebiga or the Bulldogs recruiting team?

Who will go nuts and claim our draft is a disaster whoever the Bulldogs recruiting team picks?

 

[AjsGuns]

Will be very disappointing if we get Bonts, He just isn't a top 5 pick his a project player. Just doesn't make sense to me why we would take him with pick 4 when Aish will be available who fits our structure better. You can check my post count midseason i was talking bonts up saying he could be the best of the draft however back then i didn't know Aish would be available and even without Aish available Bonts at 4 is reaching. I feel Bonts will be a superstar or a bust whereas there is a much higher chance (imo) that Aish will become at worst a solid player. Whatever though - like i said earlier our opinions collectively aren't as well informed as the clubs who are paid to do this i just personally can't see Bonts working out as well as Aish. Seems like a very risky move hopefully it pays off if they go with MB.

 

[King Harold]

Yebiga, I can't get too excited with Aish's highlights. Nothing extra ordinary there for me.
I am not that much of an idiot to think I know far more than the recruiters , so who ever they go for I will trust them .
By the way I would like to put my name forward as the best judge on this board.

 

[paul scholes]

Respected scribes all have their misses. It's never a good argument to refer to what recruiters believe imo as, in the end, they could be just as wrong as people think our recruiters are with the Bontempelli selection.

It's a valid argument when most scribes and watchers have Aish ranked higher than MB.
Of course they have their hits and misses, pretty compelling argument when the consensus is Aish is a better player than Bontempelli.

 

[Igloo]

It's a valid argument when most scribes and watchers have Aish ranked higher than MB.
Of course they have their hits and misses, pretty compelling argument when the consensus is Aish is a better player than Bontempelli.

And that's the kicker. Right now, Aish is a better player than Bontempelli. But if we do end up selecting him, we obviously think he'll be better than Aish in the long run.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

It's a valid argument when most scribes and watchers have Aish ranked higher than MB.
Of course they have their hits and misses, pretty compelling argument when the consensus is Aish is a better player than Bontempelli.

Most - not all. At least one recruiter has Bontempelli as the best player in the draft. Most scribes and watchers wouldn't have batted an eyelid at Lachie Hunter and we all know how silly that was. Most scribes and watchers passed on Hrovat and he showed some very good signs when he got games. Most scribes and watchers allowed Grundy to fall all the way to Collingwood and he booted Darren Jolly from the team in a season. I don't think you can call upon the opinions of a majority of scribes and watchers when they are more than capable of getting it wrong.

 

[timtamWB]

It's a valid argument when most scribes and watchers have Aish ranked higher than MB.
Of course they have their hits and misses, pretty compelling argument when the consensus is Aish is a better player than Bontempelli.

Exactly, Aish is ranked higher at the moment. But in 5 years, we must think Bontempelli will be better. We'd have to be basing this on what he will be, rather than right now what he is.

EDIT: I've been Igloo 'd

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

Draft a dragon at four. Unplayable they are.

 

[Dale4captain]

Honestly I think his floor is similar to Tambling. He'll get the games, impact on some games, but overall be fairly disappointing.

That is a horrible comparison. He plays absolutely nothing like Tambling. Even suggesting his floor is similar to Tambling's is a joke. It's funny how Bigfooty posters label these poor 18 year old blokes as likely disappointing before they've even arrived at the clubs. Tough gig.

 

[timtamWB]

Draft a dragon at four. Unplayable they are.

Now a dragon makes sense. They would literally crush the opposition, leaving us free to score as much as we like, and no defense necessary. Now we need a cloning machine in order to clone the dragon every week, as I'm assuming the dragon will be suspended for the remainder of the season each match. So we have 26 spots on the list for dragons, and the rest of the spots can go to whoever, as those players will be able to run into an open goal and score, as the dragon will have got rid of the opposition. This is a foolproof plan.

I really want the draft to happen right now.

 

[timtamWB]

That is a horrible comparison. He plays absolutely nothing like Tambling. Even suggesting his floor is similar to Tambling's is a joke. It's funny how Bigfooty posters label these poor 18 year old blokes as likely disappointing before they've even arrived at the clubs. Tough gig.

You keep thinking that I'm comparing them as players, when I'm not. I know that Bontempelli is NOTHING like Tambling. I say his floor is similar to Tambling's in that he'll play a lot of games, show a few flashes of brilliance, but mostly be a bit of a disappointment. It's of course just my opinion though.

 

[yebiga]

Sadly KING HAROLD the dogs kennel has us all as the best judge in the entire world

I share your concerns re Aish but I just reject Bontempelli as a bit of furphy.

but MUTT has duly put me back into my box with a series of rhetorical questions which effectively render me entirely useless. Unless suddenly employed by an AFL club as a recruiter, it seems I am all but rendered Mute.

Now that the fifth column of Aish loyalists have reluctantly defected to the Bontempelli camp even the most guarded comments will not pass without attracting their ire.

 

[King Harold]

Sadly KING HAROLD the dogs kennel has us all as the best judge in the entire world

I share your concerns re Aish but I just reject Bontempelli as a bit of furphy.

but MUTT has duly put me back into my box with a series of rhetorical questions which effectively render me entirely useless. Unless suddenly employed by an AFL club as a recruiter, it seems I am all but rendered Mute.

Now that the fifth column of Aish loyalists have reluctantly defected to the Bontempelli camp even the most guarded comments will not pass without attracting their ire.

Come on mate where's that fighting Bulldog spirit ? Surely your not putting up the white flag.
I was enjoying your spirited defence !

 

[Igloo]

Now that the fifth column of Aish loyalists have reluctantly defected to the Bontempelli camp even the most guarded comments will not pass without attracting their ire.

I have a feeling i'm one of the people this is directed at.
I would still take Aish over Bontempelli without hesitation. In my eyes, he is who we should be picking.
My most recent post was regarding the possible situation in which we do pick Bontempelli, and the thought process of the club behind it.

Your passive aggressive posts are quite enjoyable though. Continue.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I have a feeling i'm one of the people this is directed at.

To be honest Igloo I'm not sure he knows who his posts are directed at anymore.

 

[josh the gent]

You can be as blunt as you like

Why is it obvious I am not a good judge of talent?
I think you will find I am very very often spot on about my assessment of players
I am rarely wrong, unlike most clowns on here who just parrot niceties and forget what they thought a week ago because they just go with the changing wind. Some lame brain journo makes a comment and half the board believe it.

I will be stunned if we take bontempelli - mind boggingly stunned. Aish has some weakness but is still a natural footballer but this guy is so raw it is a 4 year project to get him to get him to play midfield at AFL level - if the project succeeds!

From initially posting your number 1 priority was to avoid a Farren Ray type:

I don't know any of these kids

The one quality we must avoid is the high pick who looks good on the outside but cannot win their own ball: farren ray, Sam power types who hate being tackled like Tutt

Fortunately BMac has displayed an aversion for this sort so we should be ok

And labelling Aish as a Farren Ray type:

I see, Aish averages 16 disposals to freemans 23

Aish panics under pressure and gets rid of it at the first opportunity against a guy who is super quick provides repeat gut busting efforts, inside and outside, can break lines as good as anyone in this draft.
Freeman logged elite performances in the draft camp and Aish do not

So why, would we recruit Farren Ray Mark 11 or a poor mans Macrae.
We do however need a line breaker and a Murphy replacement
So for mine it is k kolo.. Or freeman

Salem, billings and others are a head of Aish

Fortunately, there is no way BMac is going to go for an Aish at pick 4

To then saying you’d prefer we draft Aish over Bontempelli cos you ‘don’t think he’s a natural footballer’:

When I look at Marcus bontempelli,I see jarred Brennan

Now, jarred also could have been anything and perhaps Marcus has more mental strength desire and focus
But to be honest, I do not see us taking him
Under BMac s tenure we recruit natural footballers and Marcus is not
KK, billings, Sharenberg and Aish are
And really Marcus's kicking whilst long is not a pinch on KKs, if we want a tall mid fielder then I would go with KK, who is a much better kick, moves like a footballer, is quicker, good side step, every bit as much upside and almost as tall.

I say bontempelli is not coming to the whitten oval

Actually its not a shocking argument because your welcome to search through my posts and be astounded at my unnerving accuracy.

I’m astounded.

 

[zucvv]

KP's Power Ranking on Aish:

http://www.footytragic.com/blog/uncategorized/kps-phantom-draft/

#12 – JAMES AISH
Height: 184cm, Weight: 74kg, DOB: 8/11/1995
Recruited from: Norwood
James Aish has come with a big name and big expectations for almost three years now where he dominated the U/16’s National Carnival and was the competition’s MVP. He’s developed quite the portfolio, co-captaining the AIS squad in 2012 and then in 2012 he became the youngest player to ever play at SANFL league level. He didn’t look out of place there, averaging 18 disposals from his 16 games at 83% efficiency. His Grand Final performance locked him in as a top prospect when he gathered 26 disposals and kicked a goal. He was also selected in the All-Australian team last year where he had a pretty good National Carnival averaging 22 disposals (16 uncontested), six marks and playing all five matches. Aish is now a two-time premiership player at SANFL level, averaging 17 disposals from his eight games this season. He’s really done it all.

So with such a record, why is he not at number one in these rankings? Well firstly, I’ve openly admitted that I’m not as high on Aish as others for a couple of years now and not much has happened to change my mind. Secondly, I’ve still got him at #12 in a decently talented draft pool around this range. I’m just not of the opinion that he is the second coming of Jesus Christ like many have proclaimed him to be from a very young age and to be honest I think the hype is unfair on him. Former coaches and anyone else that has been involved with Aish over his junior career have been coming out and calling him a ‘one in a thousand’ player. They might think they’re doing him a favour, but seriously, let him play an AFL game first because it’s a totally different ball game.

Aish slowed up this season and that partially had to do with his shoulder surgery at the end of last season. He still managed to play 13 games (eight at SANFL level and five at the Champs) but his production was well down. James Aish is a bit like Nathan Freeman to me (not a player comparison) in that I feel like I’m missing out on something and every time I finish watching a game I’m left scratching my head trying to figure out what all the fuss is about. I’m going to give him a bit of a pass due to the shoulder surgery and the fact he was tagged at stages this season, but at the same time he was fit enough to play senior footy in a premiership side. His Championships were nothing short of disappointing and I felt the same way with his SANFL season where he was outshone by teammate Trent Dumont in my opinion. Aish did face some tags in the SANFL and at some times during the Champs, which is a compliment, so I’m not going to mark him down, but he will need to get used to it, and I think he will struggle against the tag at the next level unless he adds new strings to his bow which I’ll explain.

You’ve probably heard it a thousand times, but I’ll say it again, and that is that Aish is a classy player. He evens looks classy when he does nothing. He operates at very high efficiency levels and has done so right throughout his career. I don’t think he’s particularly damaging with his disposals though, in that he doesn’t exactly break the lines and zones or smack a 60m pass down the flank, he just hits the targets he’s expected to hit and that’s fine. With ball in hand and out in space Aish moves smoothly and he’s got the trademark sidestep, a bit like Nick Dal Santo. Aish loves the give-and-go, but he’s got a terrible habit of handballing to stationary targets when under pressure. Aish looks like a number one pick in space but when the heat is on I think his effectiveness comes right down. I don’t agree with the Bryce Gibbs comparisons at all. Gibbs is a much better kick and has the inside game that I struggle to see Aish ever developing.

Aish is very much an uncontested player and as I’ve mentioned in other profiles, I do have time for these types as they play a role every team needs but naturally I’m not going to rate them higher than players who get the ball themselves, do both, or have other tricks. Aish will go in and get if he has to but it’s not his natural game and he’s just too small to have any sort of major impact in there. As I mentioned before, Aish faced taggers this season, which would’ve been a good experience for him. He’s going to have to get used to it because I don’t think the taggers will go away any time soon and I’m not sure he will deal with them too well and that’s not a whack, it’s just that there aren’t too many outside players that do. Andrew Gaff was completely nullified for an entire season this year.

I don’t have any athletic results on Aish, but I’d guess and says he’s above average in agility, speed and endurance. He whips through traffic nicely (just has to put that stationary handball away) and his top speed looks very good. His endurance doesn’t seem elite but I could well be wrong.

The one other issue I have with Aish is that he’s very skinny and I don’t think he’ll get that much bigger. He’s been in an elite environment for almost two years and not much has changed and the other Aish’s weren’t the biggest boys either. This could present some problems with his shoulder. He really needs to put on some strength.

I was very high on Jimmy Toumpas last year, and I was quite shattered when he got drafted to Melbourne because I knew he’d struggle a little bit in a bad team. I see Aish as a bit the same. I don’t see him as a player you build a team around, he’s more the icing on the cake. I’ve plucked out some AFL midfielders that have a very similar uncontested possession to contested possession rate to James Aish in not an effort to compare them but just to see how his ratio could hold up if he continues on the same track; Brent Stanton, Dustin Martin, Brent Harvey, Sam Gibson, Shaun Grigg, Mitch Duncan, Farren Ray, Brandon Ellis, Isaac Smith, Lachie Whitfield, Tom Scully, Sam Mayes and Brad Hill.

He’d be a very good addition to a team like Collingwood or the Western Bulldogs (because of their mass amount of inside midfielders). Overall I don’t mind Aish, and the fact he’s at #12 on this list is evidence of that, but I do hold some concerns and I think that’s largely got to do with which team he goes to. He’ll be a very good player in a good team but don’t be surprised if he takes a short while (or a very long time) to find his feet. He could go either way.

 

[stefoid]

FWIW, there are quite a few phantoms that have Aish outside the top 5, and all of them have Bontempelli outside the top 5, but none of them have Scharenberg or Billings outside the top 5. (talking about those phantoms that are listed in order of goodness rather than trying to predict based on rumours)

I reckon a team like ours can't afford to @#$@ this up - would rather a high probability of getting a very good player than a lower probability of getting a superstar player. Im hoping for some reason the saints pass on Billings, and if they don't, I hope we pick Sharon.

 

[yebiga]

Josh the gent
I assume you are suggesting some kind of inconstancy in my posts
Simply there is not
I have concerns about Aish, they are about his lack of physicality and lack off pace as an outsider
That said I rate him above bontempelli
Aish looks and moves like a footballer and his record belies my observations, which no matter how infallible they may otherwise appear, I could get wrong.
The only nconsistency which you did not cite, is that to disrupt the love on this board for Aish, some weeks ago, I engaged in a little hyperbole and claimed Aish had nothing. Well that was a tad strong and tongue in cheek.

But with bontempelli it is another matter altogether
Aish will be one of Gibbs or ray - I stand to that and Gibbs is pretty good for mine
The bontempelli, if we get him, will never be a regualar mid fielder but will be tried forward and back and maybe come good in one of those roles, maybe even very good. But never an elite midfielder.

And for those suggesting I am just sitting on the fence ready to rubbish who ever we pick, I say

Kolodjashnji is the best available assuming billings is gone
Sharenberg if his ankles do not look to bad and I can live with Aish
And if we are looking to speed up a bit around the ground Freeman will do just fine

 

[stefoid]

cat meet pigeons.

St kilda board has 'rumours' that Scharenberg is firming as their pick.

Oh please let it be true - Jack Billings, come on down. Dougie Hawkins mk II

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Interesting...I think we'll still take Bontempelli but that's a really interesting development.

 

[yebiga]

GWS and the saints need a Sharenberg / kolo before they need a billings
I just don't get their recruiting strategy
GWS have enough midfielders
Saints have enough forwards who can play mid

 

[Reptilia]

It's a valid argument when most scribes and watchers have Aish ranked higher than MB.
Of course they have their hits and misses, pretty compelling argument when the consensus is Aish is a better player than Bontempelli.

A week ago knightmare had Bontempelli as his best player.

 

[black pup]

I have no doubt things have changed at the Saints since Richardson was appointed coach. I've been told that the two South Australians have come right into their calculations. Richardson would have a very good handle on Sharenberg and Aish. Surely that makes sense. The answer I got before is they said they are only going to take Victorians with their first round picks. Things change quickly in this business. I think Billings will be available at 4, and we will take him. A lot of posts on here, making a lot of noise, if Saints take Aish or Scharenberg., And I think that will happen. Aish to Saints pick 3. Billings to bulldogs at pick 4.