List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[Chris Grant]

IIRC you viewed Billings' weaknesses pretty much identically to how I did - think he's got a better chance of overcoming them than Bontempelli does his? Aish too?

I'll quickly touch on them then give my verdict at the end.

Jack Billings
I'd really like to know his Vo2 scores because if his endurance can be improved a lot, that will go a long way to him being able to find a lot more space (or getting tagged) where we know he's very damaging in. Seems to me like he has a good work ethic so he should be able to improve it a lot if his body is able.
His defensive mindset I'm not sure he can ever totally overcome that one. He can better it, but I don't ever see it being good. He reminds me so much of Higgins and Johnson defensively.
I don't think he'll ever be that damaging in congestion either, but I don't think it's a major issue because he's not really wasteful and he doesn't panics so it's not really like it's a flaw in that sense I guess. I think he should be able to spend time in the guts, but it shouldn't be for long as he looks so much better up forward or the wing where he can find a bit more space.

James Aish
To quickly touch on Aish, with his work ethic not as high as a few guys mentioned before it does bring up concerns over how much he can improve. It's not bad, but by how it was said to me it seems like he needs to put in a fair bit more effort as he made little progress on his flaws this year. He really should of improved his inside game at least a bit more, it wasn't really any better then last year IMO. The questions I'd be asking him is have you been working on your inside game. If he has been working on it then that just raises another question. Then why hasn't it improved? Will it ever? If he answers no to the have you been working on your inside game question, then it's like why the hell not haven't you been working on it. It's one of the areas that he should be working on the most especially since he was getting tagged.

The more that I think about it the more questions I have. Maybe I am over thinking it, but I don't think I am.

Marcus Bontempelli
Bontempelli's positioning can be easily overcome. He's a smart guy with a strong work ethic so this shouldn't be a problem going into a full time environment.
I can't remember exactly what else there was off the top of my head, but his performances are always the most concerning. The big games he's never really dominated apart from a 4th qtr when the game was won. He wasn't played in his best position most of the time which is not his fault, but he still had opportunities to make an impact which he rarely took. But he does have a very good attitude and work ethic which generally means he will improve on his flaws and I think he should make it with his level of talent also. But the thing is he has a lot of catching up to do and it's bloody hard to even make a proper prediction to how far he will go because of his level of inconsistency so far.


My verdict is I think Billings is the most chance to. Would really like to know his V02 scores, but I'm actually liking him the most out of the three now all things considered.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Pretty close to how I feel, although I'm not as concerned about Aish as you are. Billings for me is a tricky one because he's such a brilliant offensive weapon but I really, really hate taking players who aren't very good defensively. It just makes me uneasy. We also just haven't seen enough of him through the midfield. You know my thoughts on Bontempelli.

It's really not an easy decision and to be honest I'm nowhere near as set on the choice as I have been. If it was in my hands my preference list would probably be the following:
1. Boyd
2. Kelly
3. Aish
4. Kolodjashnij
5. Bontempelli
6. Billings
7. Scharenberg
But it's much, much closer than it has been.

 

[doggies ftw]

It's missing two of the ins, Lower who was meh, and Goodes, that just makes it even better. What's amazing is that the only one that doesn't look like being a good player for us in the ins is lower, and he performed his role well in the first half of the season, and the ONLY one of the outs I would want back is Lake, but even then we had a great reason for shipping him off. It's hard to nail an offseason better than that.

Yeah I really liked Lower for a while there, really loved what he brought to the club and he was very important to the side before he got pushed out, I think he would have done extremely well at a club like Melbourne though. It surely has to be one of the better offseasons I can remember, still early of course but looking good.

I just can't believe that Mulligan, Hooper, DJ, Skinner, Moles (well I could nearly name all of them here tbh, except for Lake and the older guys who we knew had to retire) were actually on our list, last year... We were in a bad place, full credit to the club because it has been a huge turn around and just gives me so much confidence in where were going.

 

[womble54]

All good but why aren't we taking Sharenberg? Like Stringers leg; if his feet are a one year issue and we are confident of that we should surely grab him if Billings is gone? Can play forward and back and most importantly our backline needs some quality depth. I love Talia and Roughy - surely adding Sharenberg as the 3rd tall is just a nobrainer??? Any kid drafted would likely play between 0 and 12 games anyway so its not a hardship to cotton wool him. I don't get it where I do get the Aish argument and the Bonts argument for and against. If Shazza is going to go mid first round then the scans must indicate short/mid term concerns not career ending. Will be gutted if this turns into a Joel Selwood story for the pies or dees.....

 

[Chris Grant]

If it was up to me I'd actually have Lennon above Bontempelli. I know his athletic testing was crap and he's a bit selfish, but I just loved what he produces. I'm his biggest fan.

My preference list

1. Boyd
2. Kelly
3. Scharenberg
4. Billings
5. Lennon
6. Aish
7. Kolodjashnij
8. Bontempelli

 

[Super Hans]

^ Yep. Put Scharenberg in our back 6 and it looks so solid.

Darley-------Roughead--------Young
JJ--------------Talia---------Scharenberg

And I imagine we will get more/better young players into that back 6.

 

[murphy's twin]

If it was up to me I'd actually have Lennon above Bontempelli. I know his athletic testing was crap and he's a bit selfish, but I just loved what he produces. I'm his biggest fan.

My preference list

1. Boyd
2. Kelly
3. Scharenberg
4. Billings
5. Lennon
6. Aish
7. Kolodjashnij
8. Bontempelli

I thought you said a while ago that the club rated billings high?? Do you think there is still a big chance that we will get him?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I do love Lennon but, while you've gotta back yourself to some degree, with such a high pick I'm not sure it's a smart move to go "against the grain" somewhat. He'd probably be my eighth preference. Do love him though and he's one of the guys that makes me wish we downgraded this pick.

 

[Super Hans]

If it was up to me I'd actually have Lennon above Bontempelli. I know his athletic testing was crap and he's a bit selfish, but I just loved what he produces. I'm his biggest fan.

My preference list

1. Boyd
2. Kelly
3. Scharenberg
4. Billings
5. Lennon
6. Aish
7. Kolodjashnij
8. Bontempelli

Do you know if the club is keen on Scharenberg?

 

[Chris Grant]

I thought you said a while ago that the club rated billings high?? Do you think there is still a big chance that we will get him?

My source doesn't think we will be taking Billings

Do you know if the club is keen on Scharenberg?

Most definitely! I know he's been interviewed three times. It could be just a question of his injuries whether we take him or not.

 

[Super Hans]

If we take Scharenberg I will have a raging semi.

 

[Chris Grant]

I do love Lennon but, while you've gotta back yourself to some degree, with such a high pick I'm not sure it's a smart move to go "against the grain" somewhat. He'd probably be my eighth preference. Do love him though and he's one of the guys that makes me wish we downgraded this pick.

In that instance we wouldn't end up with him anyway.

So you wouldn't call Bontempelli against the grain?

 

[fronkalicious]

If we take Scharenberg I will have a raging semi.

Can a semi technically be raging??? Ah forget it.

 

[fronkalicious]

Could billings be the answer off half-back for us? With grant, Crameri, hunter, Dickson, stringer, Higgins etc. the medium forward stocks are pretty full. Surely a guy that uses it so well and has his vision and feel for the game could transition into the murphy role? I see that as our biggest weakness moving forward

 

[Super Hans]

Can a semi technically be raging??? Ah forget it.

It's better not to question what happens down there, just sit back and enjoy the ride.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

In that instance we wouldn't end up with him anyway.

So you wouldn't call Bontempelli against the grain?

I think Bontempelli will go at 6 if we don't take him, and we know at least one recruiter ranks him the best player in the draft. While it's more of a prospective pick than others, other clubs rate him that highly and thus I don't really perceive it to be going against the grain as much as it's being made out to be. There's talk that Lennon could slip as far as Carlton's pick.

 

[Super Hans]

Could billings be the answer off half-back for us? With grant, Crameri, hunter, Dickson, stringer, Higgins etc. the medium forward stocks are pretty full. Surely a guy that uses it so well and has his vision and feel for the game could transition into the murphy role? I see that as our biggest weakness moving forward

If we want to turn Billings into a half back I would rather just draft Scharenberg or Kolodjashnij.

Same as people who say 'can we turn Billings into a midfielder?' ..why not just grab a midfielder in Aish? It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[stefoid]

All good but why aren't we taking Sharenberg? Like Stringers leg; if his feet are a one year issue and we are confident of that we should surely grab him if Billings is gone? Can play forward and back and most importantly our backline needs some quality depth. I love Talia and Roughy - surely adding Sharenberg as the 3rd tall is just a nobrainer??? Any kid drafted would likely play between 0 and 12 games anyway so its not a hardship to cotton wool him. I don't get it where I do get the Aish argument and the Bonts argument for and against. If Shazza is going to go mid first round then the scans must indicate short/mid term concerns not career ending. Will be gutted if this turns into a Joel Selwood story for the pies or dees.....

Yeah - the number of watchers who have him top 3 or 4 because he just plain good at everything. Ive come around. Absolutely everybody cant be wrong. Id still take Billings because of the 'weapon' factor, but mathematics says we get a chance at one of those two, so - we cant lose unless we do something 'bold'.

 

[HK_Bulldog]

If we want to turn Billings into a half back I would rather just draft Scharenberg or Kolodjashnij.

Same as people who say 'can we turn Billings into a midfielder?' ..why not just grab a midfielder in Aish? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Because theres a higher chance of Billings being a good defender than Scharenberg or Kolo ah forget it KK being a good forward. With Billings we have a gun forward who should be a quality mid and defender if required. With the other two, we have gun backs who may pinch as mids or forwards or be pushed out if thats the only position available. That probably is selling Scharenberg short though. I think Scharenberg is quality.
KK will need to change a lot to get out of defence though. His positioning is always from behind. Kinda like Gilbee.

 

[Super Hans]

Because theres a higher chance of Billings being a good defender than Scharenberg or Kolo ah forget it KK being a good forward. With Billings we have a gun forward who should be a quality mid and defender. With the other two, we have gun backs who may pinch as mids or forwards. That probably is selling Scharenberg short though. I think Scharenberg is quality.

But if you want a good midfielder, why not take a player who has been a gun midfielder their whole life over someone who has been a forward?

I'm using Billings as an example, everyone just expects him to become a midfielder, why would you not just take the bloke who is a midfielder (Aish) instead?

 

[topdog]

Do you know if the club is keen on Scharenberg?

Have been told, were very keen till interviewed at combine. Interviewed poorly and gave impression didn't want to be drafted by the club. Not sure if he played that card with all clubs other then SA clubs though.

 

[Kelvin31]

Have been told, were very keen till interviewed at combine. Interviewed poorly and gave impression didn't want to be drafted by the club. Not sure if he played that card with all clubs other then SA clubs though.

Surely Crows wouldn't have interviewed him, they don't have a first round pick..

 

[HK_Bulldog]

But if you want a good midfielder, why not take a player who has been a gun midfielder their whole life over someone who has been a forward?

I'm using Billings as an example, everyone just expects him to become a midfielder, why would you not just take the bloke who is a midfielder (Aish) instead?

On game day, what if Aish needs to rest or is playing restricted or is being beaten, what do you do with him? From a list perspective, what if we have an abundance of mids and theres no room. Do we try Aish somewhere else or just wait? If you can't play anywhere else, your list is exposed.
You're right, I expect Billings to be a midfielder (if required). But with Aish, its midfield or bust (probably exaggerating, he could potentially play forward with his delivery skills).
Anyway, has JMac or BMac come out and say specifically we want to boost our midfield? Don't think I've read that anywhere.

 

[LukasTheGreat]

The Draft really can't come quick enough

 

[Super Hans]

Aish can play anywhere on the ground, just like most midfielders.