Draft Review 2014 - Redo the 2014 AFL Draft

[ManOfClay]

Just can't help yourself. Almost as embarrassing as giving up pick 26 for Crameri and us selecting Zach Merrett. See how hindsight works.

You had a good win there. But it's not apples and apples here.

Crameri's output is worth pick 26 and we aren't screaming out for a Merrett type. Completely different to st kilda' situation

 

[TiAn_]

lol

There are some massive hot takes coming out half way though round 1.

Fun times.

 

[The Wrecker]

Fitness looks to be a concern.

 

[Dez!]

McCartin is still going to end up a good key forward, he showed some encouraging signs over the last season but he just needs to keep getting games under his belt.

Hopefully this year he doesn't suffer the head knocks he did last year.

Premature thread, he's a KPF starting his 3rd season so judge him at the end of the season and not after a round 1 game that he didn't even play in.

 

[dman800]

McCartin is still going to end up a good key forward, he showed some encouraging signs over the last season but he just needs to keep getting games under his belt.

Hopefully this year he doesn't suffer the head knocks he did last year.

Premature thread, he's a KPF starting his 3rd season so judge him at the end of the season and not after a round 1 game that he didn't even play in.

Who's judging him? Did you even read the OP?

 

[lewdogs]

Here's a hypothetical... if we'd picked Petracca, and Paddy had played for the Dees yesterday, what would have happened?

With the way our midfield played, Petracca would have been average and Paddy would have kicked a bag.

Our issue yesterday was our entire midfield set up, I honestly don't think Petracca would have made a big difference to that. Melbourne's best players were Lewis, Oliver and Gawn who absolutely owned us around the contest.

 

[Dez!]

Who's judging him? Did you even read the OP?

Yeah.

I don't mean to have a go at McCartin here, however I'm starting to think St.Kilda made a mistake selecting him with the #1 pick of the 2014 draft.

All year, Christian Petracca was rated as the clear #1 pick; a beast of a midfielder with elite athleticism and goalscoring ability. In the end, St. Kilda opted to select McCartin because they wanted a key-forward, even though he had more question marks over him than Tom Boyd did the previous year.

Now McCartin could well become a good, or even great player, and I know it's harsh to judge him right now because he didn't play, but in yesterday's game, Melbourne's midfield absolutely smashed St.Kilda's; there was a clear gap in quality. In this modern game, midfield depth is more valuable than ever, and Melbourne probably knew this, which is why they stockpiled them with most of their early picks in the last few years, including both Petracca and Brayshaw in 2014. Meanwhile St.Kilda's only top 10 picks since 2012 have been Billings and McCartin, two forwards (one potentially moving into the midfield); their midfield hasn't changed much on paper, and so far, it's not looking like it's improved much, or at least enough.

Should they have taken Petracca instead? Did they get too hungry for a tall forward?

Look like judgments to me, judgments that you are making on the back of a round 1 game.

Did you even read your own OP?

 

[dman800]

With the way our midfield played, Petracca would have been average and Paddy would have kicked a bag.

Is that what your crystal ball said?

Our issue yesterday was our entire midfield set up, I honestly don't think Petracca would have made a big difference to that. Melbourne's best players were Lewis, Oliver and Gawn who absolutely owned us around the contest.

Aside from the 2 goals and 23 disposals he accumulated?

 

[dman800]

Yeah.



Look like judgments to me, judgments that you are making on the back of a round 1 game.

Did you even read your own OP?

I'm sure up would look like down to you.

I never judged McCartin's playing ability, I simply questioned whether or not he was the correct selection for St.Kilda.

 

[Topkent]

Using "top 3 picks" to make a point about midfielders, then asking me to name good key forwards taken outside the "top 5 picks"? Ok.

Not that cherry picking proves anything, but here you go: Tom Lynch, Taylor Walker, Jack Gunston, Josh Jenkins, Jack Riewoldt, Jack Darling, Tim Membrey, Josh Bruce, Ben Brown, Charlie Dixon. Going back even further: Barry Hall, Brendan Fevola, James Podsiadly, Cameron Mooney, Daniel Bradshaw, Fraser Gehrig, Warren Tredrea, Drew Petrie.


and Sydney, and Geelong, and West Coast.


They added him for a bag of chips, and it remains to be seen if he will have a big influence. A bit different to pick #1.

You can also build a flag winning midfield like the Dogs did in 2016. The Dogs wouldn't trade Bontempelli for any key-forward in the competition.

Gunston Membrey Bruce Jenkins aren't key forwards and Darling and Dixon aren't much good
Walker was a NSW zone selection
Riewoldt and Lynch went 11 and 13 in the draft and certainly became much better than they were expected
Your very unlikely to get good key forwards without a top pick

 

[dman800]

Gunston Membrey Bruce Jenkins aren't key forwards

Lol ok. Sorry, I didn't take your arbitrary definition of a key-forward into account.

and Darling and Dixon aren't much good
Walker was a NSW zone selection
Riewoldt and Lynch went 11 and 13 in the draft and certainly became much better than they were expected
Your very unlikely to get good key forwards without a top pick

Still persisting with the cherry picking argument? What about all the others I mentioned?

Also why don't you give me a list of strong, athletic, high quality goalkicking midfielders taken outside the top 10?

 

[Golden_6]

In Hindsight yes, but absolutely correct decision at the time. Still has plenty of time to come good though.

 

[LeverPuller]

Here's a hypothetical... if we'd picked Petracca, and Paddy had played for the Dees yesterday, what would have happened?

With the way our midfield played, Petracca would have been average and Paddy would have kicked a bag.

Our issue yesterday was our entire midfield set up, I honestly don't think Petracca would have made a big difference to that. Melbourne's best players were Lewis, Oliver and Gawn who absolutely owned us around the contest.

Funny, because I think it was a damn good game from Trac. He's starting to use his tricks to damage now, his tackle-rising handball releases were brilliant.

 

[Topkent]

Lol ok. Sorry, I didn't take your arbitrary definition of a key-forward into account.


Still persisting with the cherry picking argument? What about all the others I mentioned?

Also why don't you give me a list of strong, athletic, high quality goalkicking midfielders taken outside the top 10?

Danger, Fyfe, Parker, Beams, Sloane, Rockliff, Merrett, Zaharakis, Shuey, Ziebell etc

Also it's not an arbitrary list
Membrey Bruce Jenkins and Gunston aren't build a structure around key forwards

 

[lewdogs]

Funny, because I think it was a damn good game from Trac. He's starting to use his tricks to damage now, his tackle-rising handball releases were brilliant.

Not taking anything away from Petracca he was excellent yesterday. Just pointing out it was a team effort to best us in the midfield led by others.

McCartin is young if he can get on the park regularly he'll be a gun for us.

 

[TiAn_]

Also why don't you give me a list of strong, athletic, high quality goalkicking midfielders taken outside the top 10?

Nat Fyfe, Gary Ablett, Steve Johnson, Luke Parker, Josh Kennedy, Robbie Gray, Toby Greene, Callan Ward, Dayne Beams, Dayne Zorko, Liam Picken. Dangerfield was picked at 10 too.

 

[dman800]

Danger, Fyfe, Parker, Beams, Sloane, Rockliff, Merrett, Zaharakis, Shuey, Ziebell etc

Dangerfield and Ziebell were top 10. Rockliff? Merrett? Lol.

Also it's not an arbitrary list
Membrey Bruce Jenkins and Gunston aren't build a structure around key forwards

Oh ok, that makes sense . . .

 

[Topkent]

Dangerfield and Ziebell were top 10. Rockliff? Merrett? Lol.


Oh ok, that makes sense . . .

That's ok the poster above gave a few more examples of gun mids taken 10 or above

Also I'm not surprised you don't understand the definition of a key forward you seem to not be very enlightened about the sport to begin with

 

[King Kunta]

Petracca might end up better than McCartin, but St Kilda knew that when they drafted him. What they didn't know was that Bruce and Membrey were capable of being 50 goal forwards for them.
If Roo's career had ended yesterday and they hadn't had Paddy on the list, there'd be a long line of people slamming them for not taking a kpf at #1.

 

[dman800]

Nat Fyfe, Gary Ablett, Steve Johnson, Luke Parker, Josh Kennedy, Robbie Gray, Toby Greene, Callan Ward, Dayne Beams, Dayne Zorko, Liam Picken. Dangerfield was picked at 10 too.

Why are you naming father son picks?

Dayne Zorko? Seriously? Since when is he anywhere near as powerful or athletic as a Petracca? Awful example. Toby Greene is a small forward. Ward has never averaged more than a goal a game. Picken spent 80% of his career as a scrubber tagger.

Petracca is a fast, powerful beast of a midfielder with elite hands, both in traffic and overhead. Either you name similar players to that or you don't.

Putting them aside, how are key-forwards any more difficult to find? I named my share; are you going to make arbitrary rules about who counts as a key-forward?

In conclusion, cherry picking is stupid and doesn't prove anything.

 

[dman800]

That's ok the poster above gave a few more examples of gun mids taken 10 or above

Only regurgitating your already meaningless point.

Also I'm not surprised you don't understand the definition of a key forward you seem to not be very enlightened about the sport to begin with

I know exactly what key-forwards are. Dumb dumbs like yourself don't dictate the definition.

 

[calyam]

Thread has been completely dreadful so far and has almost entirely failed to address the question.

I cannot imagine there is too many St Kilda supporters who are ecstatic by McCartin's progress thus far. In 2016, he averaged 7.0 disposals and 1.3 goals per game (though to be fair he did leave a few games early due to injury).

Obviously those aren't great numbers and they are even a bit weaker than you might expect from a KPF of his age. A lack of continuity certainly hasn't helped and the concussions do raise some question marks (though this obviously couldn't be considered prior to the draft).

If St Kilda had a chance to re-do the draft I find it highly unlikely that they'd take McCartin at number one.

I hope he turns it around and given he turns 21 in April he certainly has time to do that. But I don't think the OP should be attacked for pointing out that he isn't quite where he should be at this point in time.

 

[DT_35]

Thread has been completely dreadful so far and has almost entirely failed to address the question.

I cannot imagine there is too many St Kilda supporters who are ecstatic by McCartin's progress thus far. In 2016, he averaged 7.0 disposals and 1.3 goals per game.

Those averages would be deflated due to having multiple in game injuries so a few games he only played a qtr or 2.

 

[calyam]

Those averages would be deflated due to having multiple in game injuries so a few games he only played a qtr or 2.

Correct. Edited my post.

 

[Geary Is GOAT]

Is that what your crystal ball said?


Aside from the 2 goals and 23 disposals he accumulated?

Thats what tracs gathered in a team dominating, doubt it would have just transferred to us yesterday. Regardless you clearly already have your mind made up, not sure why you made this thread.