Draft Review 2014 - Redo the 2014 AFL Draft

[Wild Bill]

Ok, he'd be pushing ahead of Wallis if form was an issue. And no, I didn't see anyone calling for him being dropped and traded at years end, when did this happen? He was actually in fairly good form in latter end of the year, his form issues were earlier.

As a pure inside mid, there is only so many of these types you can play in a side. In a fully fit 22, he is behind Bont, Macrae, Libba, Dunkley and McLean at the very least, plus we have Hunter who plays inside and outside (although as a wing). I don't see where he'd fit in our 22. Jong, Webb and Honeychurch are not even close to best 22 at the Dogs (hence why Honey was delisted), they only played because we had so many injuries throughout the year.

Agree his form picked up towards season end but after our 1st game a lot wanted to pack his bags.

Tough coming back from a broken leg so you may get uplift from him next year making it 3 years in June.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Agree his form picked up towards season end but after our 1st game a lot wanted to pack his bags.

Tough coming back from a broken leg so you may get uplift from him next year making it 3 years in June.

Was largely an emotional reaction given his brainfade arguably cost us the game. Wallis is the one whose spot would most be at risk if we had Ahern, but even then his spot in the 22 as a mid is questionable given his recent performance there - his value is more as a medium forward who rotates into the midfield when the others need breaks.

Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing against Ahern because I don't rate him (I honestly do think he has a huge future ahead of him), I just feel like we would be one of the worst sides for him to come to in this hypothetical scenario given our midfield depth. We not only have the guys I mentioned, but we also have Bailey Williams moving there, as well as Bailey Smith and Rhylee West having just been drafted. Not to mention Callum Porter as a pure inside mid that we took a gamble on last year. Ahern would fit into most sides, just probably not ours given he is probably the last player we really need

 

[Pykie]

This is probably the third time I've specifically asked you - who does he replace in our midfield? If we look at our half-back line, what does he provide that makes him more valuable than JJ, Williams, Richards, Crozier, Duryea and Wood? Because they'd be our first 6 choices for half-back.

You are latching on to this idea that Ahern is a good player (which I agree with), but are ignoring the fact that he has to force someone out in a similar position. Dogs have the 7th ranked midfield and 8th ranked defence, so those really aren't concerns of ours. If he was a half-forward, then I could definitely see him finding a spot, but otherwise I just don't see it

At the Dogs, in 2018 Ahern would of been:


3rd for inside 50's. (Macrae, Bontempelli, Roughead)
4th for goal assists (Webb, Macrae)
5th for clearances (Macrae, Bontempell, McLean, Wallis)
3rd for centre clearances (Macrae, Bontempelli)
4th for contest possessions (Macrae, Wallis, Bontempelli)
8th for metres gained (Suckling, Williams, Macrae, Hunter, JJ, Bontempelli, Crozier)
7th for score involvements (Macrae, Bontempelli, McLean, Hunter, Suckling, Wallis)
34th for TOG% (Had the second lowest TOG of all North players and would of had the second TOG of all WB players)


So to summarise, he averages the same amount of disposals as all of Wallis, Dunkley, Daniel, Dahlhaus* and 2 possessions a game shy of McLean.

If you look at the breakdowns, it is pretty evident he does as much if not more with the ball than most of the WB midfielders not named Macrae and Bontempelli.

Considering he came in mid season off of 3 years of missed football from injury, one would surmise that given this is his first full pre-season since his rookie year, the fact he averaged better numbers than a chunk of your midfielders despite sitting on the bench for almost an entire quarter per game more than the midfielders you listed. He probably has a higher scope for improvement than alot of them?



The player he'd be most competing with for a spot is McLean, who is 67th on the AFL Player Ratings, ahead of Jones, Gibbs, Coniglio, Hurn, and Witts at the next 5. Ahern is really not at that stage yet

Admittedly most the Dog's listed have far greater tackle numbers than Ahern, which I think is down to him being gassed by half time in a lot of the games he played this year. I think this will improve alot this year.

Is the argument whether Ahern gets a game at all, or whether he is starting 22 in a fully fit and healthy side?

If it's the former, then yes he would get a game at the Dogs. The latter? I doubt it.

Midfield is far from being our weakness, and we will be getting Libba back next year as well as having Bailey Smith and Rhylee West pushing into the side. Just no room in a healthy Dogs side.

You see, this is your issue. You aren't recruiting the guy. It's purely about 18/19. Would he get a game for you if he was there?

Remembering Ahern was a hell of a lot higher pick than West and taken at the same pick as Smith, so wanting to develop kids isn't a line you can make here.

As for Libba, he's also coming off an ACL.

Until we see otherwise, Smith and West are in the reserves in this debate.

 

[Haychh]

Parish, Langford, Guelfi and Dea all played 12+ games for Essendon last year.

Dea is a defender and Parish, Langford and Guelfi all played predominantly as forwards.

Ahern at Essendon would be our 5th best inside mid after Heppell, Smith, Merrett and Shiel. Unless he all of a sudden gained the ability to play as a forward he wouldn’t be in our best 22.



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[Virgin Dog]

At the Dogs, in 2018 Ahern would of been:


3rd for inside 50's. (Macrae, Bontempelli, Roughead)
4th for goal assists (Webb, Macrae)
5th for clearances (Macrae, Bontempell, McLean, Wallis)
3rd for centre clearances (Macrae, Bontempelli)
4th for contest possessions (Macrae, Wallis, Bontempelli)
8th for metres gained (Suckling, Williams, Macrae, Hunter, JJ, Bontempelli, Crozier)
7th for score involvements (Macrae, Bontempelli, McLean, Hunter, Suckling, Wallis)
34th for TOG% (Had the second lowest TOG of all North players and would of had the second TOG of all WB players)


So to summarise, he averages the same amount of disposals as all of Wallis, Dunkley, Daniel, Dahlhaus* and 2 possessions a game shy of McLean.

If you look at the breakdowns, it is pretty evident he does as much if not more with the ball than most of the WB midfielders not named Macrae and Bontempelli.

Considering he came in mid season off of 3 years of missed football from injury, one would surmise that given this is his first full pre-season since his rookie year, the fact he averaged better numbers than a chunk of your midfielders despite sitting on the bench for almost an entire quarter per game more than the midfielders you listed. He probably has a higher scope for improvement than alot of them?



The player he'd be most competing with for a spot is McLean, who is 67th on the AFL Player Ratings, ahead of Jones, Gibbs, Coniglio, Hurn, and Witts at the next 5. Ahern is really not at that stage yet

Admittedly most the Dog's listed have far greater tackle numbers than Ahern, which I think is down to him being gassed by half time in a lot of the games he played this year. I think this will improve alot this year.



You see, this is your issue. You aren't recruiting the guy, it's purely about 18/19. As for Libba, he's also coming off an ACL.

Until we see otherwise, Smith and West are in the reserves in this debate.

All I'm seeing from those stats is that he doesn't provide anything significant enough to knock others out of contention for the spot.

We can obviously agree that Bont and Macrae are ahead, so it then comes down to the others.

Hunter is rated as the #1 wing in the competition by Champion Data, and just coming off a B+F win. His spot is cemented.

McLean just enjoyed a breakout year, and reached #67 in Player Ratings. He proved extremely important in stoppages, being responsible for a large amount of our clearances that weren't done by Macrae. He is also basically our first choice "resting mid" forward flanker, which locks his position in the team from my perspective.

The argument can then come to Dunkley, whose form exploded in the second half of 2018. In the last third of the season, he averaged:
- 11.9 Kicks, 18 handballs (for just short of 30 disposals per game)
- 4.9 Marks per game
- 6.1 Tackles per game
- 3 Inside 50s per game
- 0.86 Goal Assists per game, which would put him in the top 10 all time list if maintained over his career

I'm just saying, which of our 5 first choice mids is Ahern ahead of? Because even when it comes to Libba, he has the on-field leadership we so desperately need right now, which props him up too

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Is the argument whether Ahern gets a game at all, or whether he is starting 22 in a fully fit and healthy side?

If it's the former, then yes he would get a game at the Dogs. The latter? I doubt it.

Midfield is far from being our weakness, and we will be getting Libba back next year as well as having Bailey Smith and Rhylee West pushing into the side. Just no room in a healthy Dogs side.

The player he'd be most competing with for a spot is McLean, who is 67th on the AFL Player Ratings, ahead of Jones, Gibbs, Coniglio, Hurn, and Witts at the next 5. Ahern is really not at that stage yet

I saw your midfield at Manuka last season. I laugh at suggestions it's any kind of strength. Ahern will at least chase, and should have a better tank after another off season.

 

[MartinLifts130]

I saw your midfield at Manuka last season. I laugh at suggestions it's any kind of strength. Ahern will at least chase, and should have a better tank after another off season.

Ahern most certainly does not chase lol in a few years he will be touted as aaron hall 2.0, gets quite a few possessions but low clearance numbers and does not tackle.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Ahern most certainly does not chase lol in a few years he will be touted as aaron hall 2.0, gets quite a few possessions but low clearance numbers and does not tackle.

I suspect I've seen him play a lot more than you. Yeah he does

 

[Virgin Dog]

I saw your midfield at Manuka last season. I laugh at suggestions it's any kind of strength. Ahern will at least chase, and should have a better tank after another off season.

I could either listen to your incredibly biased opinion, or that of Champion Data and many other respected football analysts who say that Dogs have a very strong midfield group. I wonder which one carries far more weight

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I could either listen to your incredibly biased opinion, or that of Champion Data and many other respected football analysts who say that Dogs have a very strong midfield group. I wonder which one carries far more weight

The eyes dont lie.

When you see mids jogging free in the middle of the ground while bringing the ball out of defence, you can only conclude the other side is disgraceful.

I believe Ahern would actually get a spot in our midfield. On performance it would be significantly more difficult to get a spot in North's mifldfield than yours.

 

[Virgin Dog]

The eyes dont lie.

When you see mids jogging free in the middle of the ground while bringing the ball out of defence, you can only conclude the other side is disgraceful.

Oh yes, let's dismiss every other meaningful piece of analysis that rates our midfield as quite strong, and instead listen to the hateful GWS supporter who has demonstrated a laughable bias constantly on this forum. Have you ever genuinely made a positive comment about the Bulldogs? Seems like every word out of your mouth just has to be disagreeing with any positivity around our club

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Another thread hijacked with irrelevant shit.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Another thread hijacked with irrelevant shit.

Ironic that your comment has contributed less than any other in the thread so far.

What's your 2014 draft order re-done?

 

[Virgin Dog]

To get the thread back on track, here's my draft order:

1. Jordan De Goey
2. Harris Andrews
3. Isaac Heeney
4. Angus Brayshaw
5. Zaine Cordy
6. Touk Miller
7. Kane Lambert
8. Toby McLean
9. Jake Lever
10. Lachie Weller
11. Liam Duggan
12. Connor Blakely
13. Christian Petracca
14. Mitch McGovern
15. Caleb Daniel
16. Ed Langdon
17. Paul Ahern
18. Billy Gowers
19. Dan Butler
20. Braydon Preuss

 

[Wild Bill]

To get the thread back on track, here's my draft order:

1. Jordan De Goey
2. Harris Andrews
3. Isaac Heeney
4. Angus Brayshaw
5. Zaine Cordy
6. Touk Miller
7. Kane Lambert
8. Toby McLean
9. Jake Lever
10. Lachie Weller
11. Liam Duggan
12. Connor Blakely
13. Christian Petracca
14. Mitch McGovern
15. Caleb Daniel
16. Ed Langdon
17. Paul Ahern
18. Billy Gowers
19. Dan Butler
20. Braydon Preuss

Performance so far or is this end of career?

 

[Virgin Dog]

Performance so far or is this end of career?

Heavily weighted on performance so far, while still slightly taking into consideration future prospects.

This is why Petracca and Ahern in particular are so low - I expect both to be pushing top 10 in a few years' time if we redo this

 

[Haychh]

To get the thread back on track, here's my draft order:

1. Jordan De Goey
2. Harris Andrews
3. Isaac Heeney
4. Angus Brayshaw
5. Zaine Cordy
6. Touk Miller
7. Kane Lambert
8. Toby McLean
9. Jake Lever
10. Lachie Weller
11. Liam Duggan
12. Connor Blakely
13. Christian Petracca
14. Mitch McGovern
15. Caleb Daniel
16. Ed Langdon
17. Paul Ahern
18. Billy Gowers
19. Dan Butler
20. Braydon Preuss

Do you actually rate Zaine Cordy over everyone you listed below him or is that a pisstake?

 

[Virgin Dog]

Do you actually rate Zaine Cordy over everyone you listed below him or is that a pisstake?

I genuinely do. It's probably largely because I get to watch every game of his, but he played CHF in our premiership side, and has now become, in my opinion, our most indispensable defender. When he's missing, we suffer massively, as we saw in one of our North games this year. Fractured his skull during the game, and as soon as he went off Ben Brown (his man who he'd been beating so far) kicked multiple goal in quick succession.

This is also partially speculative, as I only see him getting better. My top 20 is the order I'd choose the players if it came to a redraft

 

[Ambrosia]

To get the thread back on track, here's my draft order:

1. Jordan De Goey
2. Harris Andrews
3. Isaac Heeney
4. Angus Brayshaw
5. Zaine Cordy
6. Touk Miller
7. Kane Lambert
8. Toby McLean
9. Jake Lever
10. Lachie Weller
11. Liam Duggan
12. Connor Blakely
13. Christian Petracca
14. Mitch McGovern
15. Caleb Daniel
16. Ed Langdon
17. Paul Ahern
18. Billy Gowers
19. Dan Butler
20. Braydon Preuss

Don't rate running defenders? I would have thought one of Mckenna, Maynard, Short or Saad would at least be top 20.

 

[Ambrosia]

Do you actually rate Zaine Cordy over everyone you listed below him or is that a pisstake?

This is the same guy who didn't rate Hurley top 10 in 2008 draft.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Don't rate running defenders? I would have thought one of Mckenna, Maynard, Short or Saad would at least be top 20.

I actually had McKenna at 21, but decided to cut it off at 20. Could have bumped him up a few places, as the difference between 11 and 21 was quite minimal

 

[Virgin Dog]

This is the same guy who didn't rate Hurley top 10 in 2008 draft.

Do you mean the guy who rates Sidebottom, Sloane, Beams, Shuey, Breast, Nic Nat, Lynch, Davis, Walters and Hannebery above Hurley? Not to mention Stephen Hill and Liam Picken. Which of the top 10 is he genuinely above besides Hammers who has suffered from injury issues the last few seasons?

 

[Haychh]

Do you mean the guy who rates Sidebottom, Sloane, Beams, Shuey, Breast, Nic Nat, Lynch, Davis, Walters and Hannebery above Hurley? Not to mention Stephen Hill and Liam Picken. Which of the top 10 is he genuinely above besides Hammers who has suffered from injury issues the last few seasons?

Wow... first of all the Tom Lynch of the ‘08 draft is the Adelaide Tom Lynch, which obviously sums up your knowledge of this draft. Or do you honestly rate Adelaide Lynch higher than Hurley?

I would rate Hurley well above all you listed bar Sidebottom, Sloane, Beams and Naitanui with which I would put him somewhere in the middle of that bunch. I don’t think that is Essendon bias, I’m pretty sure most would agree he is top 5 of that draft.




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[Virgin Dog]

Wow... first of all the Tom Lynch of the ‘08 draft is the Adelaide Tom Lynch, which obviously sums up your knowledge of this draft. Or do you honestly rate Adelaide Lynch higher than Hurley?

I would rate Hurley well above all you listed bar Sidebottom, Sloane, Beams and Naitanui with which I would put him somewhere in the middle of that bunch. I don’t think that is Essendon bias, I’m pretty sure most would agree he is top 5 of that draft.




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I am well aware considering the age difference. I am raising his name as a possibility, although to be fair both Hill and Picken would be above Adelaide Lynch.

I think you're just overrating Hurley here

 

[Haychh]

I am well aware considering the age difference. I am raising his name as a possibility, although to be fair both Hill and Picken would be above Adelaide Lynch.

I think you're just overrating Hurley here

K