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Analysis 2015 Forward structure

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HARKER said:
Walker Henderson Thomas
Menzel Casboult Jones.

Still the best starting forward set up for mine.
Question on Walker being ready but you'd be doing well to have all these guys covered one on one.
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Looks about right IMO. If Watson can step up it may well release Henderson back and then we look even better.

If Kruezer is back soon then it changes again. I get the feeling MM had wanted to go with 2 ruckman with Kruezer playing forward. Buckley, Smith, Tutt plus the mids are all options as well.

Be very interesting to see how we line up in Rd One.
 
CJBlue said:
Looks about right IMO. If Watson can step up it may well release Henderson back and then we look even better.

If Kruezer is back soon then it changes again. I get the feeling MM had wanted to go with 2 ruckman with Kruezer playing forward. Buckley, Smith, Tutt plus the mids are all options as well.

Be very interesting to see how we line up in Rd One.
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Swing man is a funky term and I know what Mick wants but you have to get a settled group together.

It would be a backward step throwing Henderson down back again at the expense of Jaksch's development.

We already have two leaders down back now with Rowe and Jamison.
The forward line needs Henderson and that's likely the way it will stay.
 
HARKER said:
Swing man is a funky term and I know what Mick wants but you have to get a settled group together.

It would be a backward step throwing Henderson down back again at the expense of Jaksch's development.

We already have two leaders down back now with Rowe and Jamison.
The forward line needs Henderson and that's likely the way it will stay.
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Agree Harks.

Rowe now gives us the potential to settle the 2 key back positions and settle the key forward spots. With how Rowe performed last year there is no way he should play anywhere but key defence.
 
SickQwon said:
Our best set up:
HF: Walker, Henderson, Thomas
FF: Jones, Casboult, Menzel

To help with rotations:
Tutt
Kreuzer
Judd
Everitt
Johnson

To make a few appearances:
Ellard
Gibbs
Watson
Boekhorst
Yarran
White

Jaksch?
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From what I have seen Watson needs to play a roaming forward, similar to what Westhoff does for port.
 

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Competition for spots is great in the forward line. I'm looking forward to seeing how Casboult and Jones respond in the West, to the Matthew Watson show from Friday.

Watson has thrown the cat among the pigeons, and couldn't have timed it better. Good man, Matty.
 
BrunoV said:
Going to be a very interesting mix of forwards in 2015.

There is a lot of mobility and power in the key posts and real class at ground level though probably not that much depth.

Henderson is a gun and I think that you're going to be very surprised by Jones. There was more to the story in 2014. He was playing 1 out as a key forward and was being ignored by the Dogs as they crabbed the ball forward from defence to then be dropped one game after kicking 4. He was more than a class above in the VFL in the 4 or 5 games I saw him play to finish the VFL season (including his total domination of our VFL team).

A mix of players like Walker, Menzel, Tutt, Thomas and maybe Judd also provides a good blend of speed and class (with decent aerial ability).

If Casboult can get his kicking sorted and/or Kreuzer can turn into a genuine force on the lead it will tie everything together nicely though I suspect that the best balance would be Kreuzer playing as number 1 ruck with Casboult providing the relief.

Going to be a few really difficult match ups if everyone can get on the park.
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It's interesting to see an opposition supporter come in and give a very honest appraisal of our forward setup.

A question for you BrunoV... where do you think that Watson will fit into the mix after our intraclub match?
 
HARKER said:
Midfielders have to fit somewhere around the ground and he can kick goals :)

Thomas doesn't really spend much time in the centre bounces though, does he?
You'll have the likes of Murphy, Gibbs, Judd, Curnow, Cripps, Carrazzo, and hopefully Cripps and Whiley as the staple items.
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With a centre line of Thomas, Gibbs and Everitt you would like to think that the delivery into our forward line would be pretty pinpoint.
 
Dramoth said:
With a centre line of Thomas, Gibbs and Everitt you would like to think that the delivery into our forward line would be pretty pinpoint.
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Could even be mintpoint....

Called into training today and must say our goal kicking practice was abysmal apart from Gibbs who was a class above.
 
Dramoth said:
With a centre line of Thomas, Gibbs and Everitt you would like to think that the delivery into our forward line would be pretty pinpoint.
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All three can kick them from a long way as well.

I reckon Thomas will find a lot of his pace and be a better deliverer inside 50 this year, but we might have to wait until next year before he gets the power back into his long range kicking.
 
Blue Dangerfield said:
All three can kick them from a long way as well.

I reckon Thomas will find a lot of his pace and be a better deliverer inside 50 this year, but we might have to wait until next year before he gets the power back into his long range kicking.
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Watched Thomas doing goal kicking practice today from 35m out right in front and he continued to miss which is a worry.

What is more worrying is that we had only 1 specialist coach there correcting technique, ball drop and run ups etc whilst about 8 players were kicking for goal.

Thomas would miss and that coach would spend a few moments discussing technique and ball drop whilst others were kicking and missing much worse, this coach didn't get to help the others as he was pre occupied with helping Thomas and didn't even see how bad some of the others were.

More resources maybe or better use of the ones you already have ??
 
Just Kreuzing said:
Could even be mintpoint....

Called into training today and must say our goal kicking practice was abysmal apart from Gibbs who was a class above.
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Makes me want to ask a lot of questions...attitude? Skill?Mucking around?wtf was the coach trying to teach Thomas about kicking? Would have thought Casboult V Watson V Jones is a crucial decision to get right for the Club -

Henderson/menzel/Thomas pick themselves don't they? So battle of small crumber possie V resting mid decision is key decision #2 in my book for up front..
 
JustaBattler said:
Makes me want to ask a lot of questions...attitude? Skill?Mucking around?wtf was the coach trying to teach Thomas about kicking? Would have thought Casboult V Watson V Jones is a crucial decision to get right for the Club -

Henderson/menzel/Thomas pick themselves don't they? So battle of small crumber possie V resting mid decision is key decision #2 in my book for up front..
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There was a bit of mucking around and laughter in both the marking drills and goal kicking drills, looked a very light session for the period I was there, Not all players trained from what i could tell, didn't see Casboult out there to be honest, definitely wasn't having set shots whilst I was there anyway.

The coach looked as though he was trying to correct Thomas's alignment at the point of contact as he was leaning back a bit and wasn't maintaining a square or direct approach to the target.

Looked as though all players may have been taking set shots at some point that i might have missed as they were in 3 groups and were rotating through skills stations/drills.

Watson may become our Leigh Brown type.
 
I think Mick might be thinking of using Watson in a simular way to how he used Jack Anothony.
He was behind Cloke Daws and either Brown or Jolly. So was getting a pretty average defender on him.
He wasn't anything special had a good set shot at goal but that was about it.
He had one decent year. All he did was play his role and take his chances infront of goal.
Watto has a lot more going for him then Jack. He just needs to put it all together.

I think the forward line that is picked to play should be done on form foremost.
Then may be we could have also have a look at it from a match ups perspective.
It might be that we could stretch some defenses.
In the same way that has been done to us for longer then I care to remember
 

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JustaBattler said:
Makes me want to ask a lot of questions...attitude? Skill?Mucking around?wtf was the coach trying to teach Thomas about kicking? Would have thought Casboult V Watson V Jones is a crucial decision to get right for the Club -

Henderson/menzel/Thomas pick themselves don't they? So battle of small crumber possie V resting mid decision is key decision #2 in my book for up front..
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Tiger's won 14 majors and is on his 4 swing coach (soon to be fifth) still trying to find his swing which was close to perfect in 2000
 
Sector 7G said:
Tiger's won 14 majors and is on his 4 swing coach (soon to be fifth) still trying to find his swing which was close to perfect in 2000
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20 year olds have a different level of body flexibility to 40 year olds. Tiger has also accumulated a bad back/hip and knee because of the extreme stress his swing mechanics placed on him over the years. The #1 culprit was Hank Haney and his stupid plane theories....ruined Tiger. However, there isn't a 40 year old in the world that can hit the ball like a 20 something year old - Tiger has taken a long time to figure this out - chasing the elixir of youth via swapping swing coaches.

Watch Rory Mcilroy deteriorate even faster - the pump and dump swing styles and todays's golf equipment is not good for longevity.

Unless you are saying Thomas is injured and has to re-learn how to kick the ball I can't see any specific carriage in your analogy and if this is the case - Malthouse will have a serious issue to answer.
 
JustaBattler said:
20 year olds have a different level of body flexibility to 40 year olds. Tiger has also accumulated a bad back/hip and knee because of the extreme stress his swing mechanics placed on him over the years. The #1 culprit was Hank Haney and his stupid plane theories....ruined Tiger. However, there isn't a 40 year old in the world that can hit the ball like a 20 something year old - Tiger has taken a long time to figure this out - chasing the elixir of youth via swapping swing coaches.

Watch Rory Mcilroy deteriorate even faster - the pump and dump swing styles and todays's golf equipment is not good for longevity.

Unless you are saying Thomas is injured and has to re-learn how to kick the ball I can't see any specific carriage in your analogy and if this is the case - Malthouse will have a serious issue to answer.
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The point is athletes across all sports develop technical flaws in executing skills. They all have coaches that identify those flaws and work to eliminate them. The idea that a 27yr old shouldn't be working on skills with coaches is misplaced. It is kind of why you have skills coaches at a club.

Edit: Just remembered Thomas was injured, couldn't kick over a jam tin and had to learn to deal with his injury when kicking.
 
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Hendo, Jones and Cas would be the way I'd go with the talls. Watto and Cas in the forward 50 lack mobility. Menzel on a flank swapping with a wingman (Thomas) which leaves the 2 smalls....
Smith would be a great small fwd. That leaves Tutt, Ellard. Army and even Bucks (swingman) for the other role.
 
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Jones' follow-up work around the ground was good yesterday and his leap at the ball was excellent. Didn't get much opportunity due to the nature of the game, but you can see why people have talked up his competitiveness in the pre-season. Also looked very good when he went up for the contested mark with hands outstretched.
 
All three were pretty invisible yesterday.

Watson did a few smart things. Gave a couple of clean handballs to set up play and was able to get to a couple of contest (where he was outnumbered) to get the ball to ground. Other then that he was pretty much always in the wrong place at the wrong time. Not a game created for his type.

Jones was interesting. Certainly doesn't play like a first or even second string forward. Every marking opportunity he went with a chest mark... for whatever reason. And when he did get possession did not make great decisions. What he did do well was his pressure and tackling.

Casboult got most of his touches whilst relieving in the ruck so it's unfair to say he played a better game then the other two. If he were to play solely forward his tale wouldn't be so different to the above.

Ultimately... yesterday provided us with near nothing into determining an optimal forward structure.
 

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