List Mgmt. 2015 Trade, Draft, Rookie Draft and FA Megathread

[Joffaboy]

Einstein's view of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. If we think he is a lovett.... we need to ask ourselves are we insane?

Gardiner?

Weller?

Specious comparison

 

[Tommy Wigs]

We still have a poor reputation. These things stick for years. And it does matter when any new indiscretion, however small, puts more pressure in the playing group or the coach.

I'm astonished there is a bad news story and nek minnit the new trade suggestions come out!

 

[Defacto]

Gardiner?

Weller?

Specious comparison

gardiner had already resolved his issues before he was drafted. spent a year at claremont and had a glowing character reference. not the same as bennell who still hasnt changed

 

[Winners Only]

Gardiner?

Weller?

Specious comparison

Joffa as good a footballer as Gardiner was I dont know if he mended his alleged 'drug using' whilst with the Saints. There was numerous stories going around about him and other big named Saints (some still playing) having a huge 'blowy' night at Kosi's wedding and that came from a champions brother who was at the wedding.

Why do you think that since that era the club have been so strong on recruitees character, they dont want and cant afford the media smears they have had in the past!

 

[Half Back Pocket]

press Conference this afternoon to announce sacking.

If he's sacked does he become a DFA?

 

[saintbill]

Don't normally like to post rumours, but this is a good source. Kruezer to the Pies is a done deal. Not sure of the specifics of the deal, but my guess is that it would be enough to land the Blues the priority pick. More than likely we are working with pick 6 here.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

Grundy and Witts - why would they want Kruezer?

You'd think that would be the last team he'd go to?

 

[kernelT]

Read Loris's posts over on Saintsational. He came from a family with significant issues and was taken on by an elder Bennell woman (grandmother) and raised by her. His surname is not Bennell he took on the surname after living withn the family. Sounds like he always had behavioural issue is just that he could play footy.

I would one of the strongest campaigners to give the indigenous kids a go - he has had chances and is not learning, hence he is too big of a risk for the Saints in this time of their list rebuild. The club needs and deserves certainties with their 1st round draft choices there is no room for error!

That's actually just untrue, you've completely appropriated loris's post and made up your own story.

she didn't say the family had significant issues

she didn't say he had behavioral issues

she did say that he grew up with an outstanding role model in Shirley Bennell

 

[Joffaboy]

Joffa as good a footballer as Gardiner was I dont know if he mended his alleged 'drug using' whilst with the Saints. There was numerous stories going around about him and other big named Saints (some still playing) having a huge 'blowy' night at Kosi's wedding and that came from a champions brother who was at the wedding.

Why do you think that since that era the club have been so strong on recruitees character, they dont want and cant afford the media smears they have had in the past!

yes I know all about the Saints players indiscretions over that period, which enhances my argument in my opinion. They weren't sacked, Fisher wasn't wasn't sacked after Caro's veiled allegations, Mav Weller was said to be unmanageable at GC and is now in the leadership group.

We still have players on our list that have had plenty of indiscretions but Bennell was unlucky enough to have a couple of shots that were Hawked about and sold.

if the Saints didn't take dick pics but their other recreations, many who are still on the list would be highly embarrassed just like Bennell was.

My opinion is he is worth the risk. AFL wont help us in any way while their lovechild GWS and their erstwhile love child haven't won 10 flags each.

We need to take a chance or forever be an also ran.

 

[Joffaboy]

That's actually just untrue, you've completely appropriated loris's post and made up your own story.

she didn't say the family had significant issues

she didn't say he had behavioral issues

she did say that he grew up with an outstanding role model in Shirley Bennell

Hmmm - didn't read Loris's post. So Winners Only, what do you say to what dragit has posted?

 

[saintbill]

On Bennell:

I think this is great news, drives his price right down. Is totally worth the risk, provided we manage to keep pick 6. As good as he is they are dreaming if they think they can land pick 6 for a player out of contract with behavioural issues.

If we are able to snag Bennell and retain our first pick the risk/return is dramatically skewed in our favour.

 

[crasha301]

On Bennell:

I think this is great news, drives his price right down. Is totally worth the risk, provided we manage to keep pick 6. As good as he is they are dreaming if they think they can land pick 6 for a player out of contract with behavioural issues.

If we are able to snag Bennell and retain our first pick the risk/return is dramatically skewed in our favour.

His contracted till the end of next yr I believe.

 

[stavro#4]

press Conference this afternoon to announce sacking.

If he's sacked does he become a DFA?

Surely not

 

[L_W_P]

Grundy and Witts - why would they want Kruezer?

You'd think that would be the last team he'd go to?

Witts part of the deal for Treloar.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Grundy and Witts - why would they want Kruezer?

You'd think that would be the last team he'd go to?

Maybe Witts to GWS as part of the Treloar deal.

Back to Harley, this is seriously a massively overblown reaction. Every AFL player not taking part in the finals will be out having a few beers today (or last night) & most of them will get an absolute skinfull. Anyone who has spent any time in pubs & clubs (& that's probably every single on of us on here!) has seen bouncers acting unreasonably & being ar5eholes for the sake of it. None of us know the details as yet but if he's been ejected for being full (which is his right to do- it's the licenced premises responsibility not to serve drunk people) and reacted to a bouncer by knocking a *** out of his hand then...seriously is this what we're hanging a bloke for?

I know he's a repeat offender when it comes to booze but he's never clocked anyone or got behind the wheel & put people in danger. You can't compare him with Lovett. He was a convicted criminal & utter scumbag of a person that the club took a chance on because we were so close to a flag.

Don't forget what an absolute trap the Gold Coast is for a young bloke with plenty of cash....and plenty of the young Suns players have struggled with it. Probably the worst place in Australia to base a group of 40+ 18-30 year olds with high disposable income. The AFL may as well have put a team in Vegas.

Having said all that, I have complete faith in Ameet, Trout & Richo to make the right decisions. There is no way in the world we give up our first pick (for anyone other than Kelly now). It would be our 2nd pick & a player if anything.

 

[Persevering Saint]

For everybody saying we should get Bennell, you are effectively saying that you have no interest in us getting any new big sponsors, or quite seriously keeping some of the ones we already have. The sponsorship team, including Finnis, have bent over backwards to assure sponsors, "We've changed! We've changed! We won't destroy your brand, trust us!"

Seriously, how anybody could even consider this is just astonishing to me. Our brand is awful, awful, awful. This year, FINALLY, we've actually had media dip their toe in the water to say, "Hmm, Saints aren't as bad as they used to be... seem to be doing well at this rebuild thing." Those same media would jump on something like this and go back to the classic cliches about our club's "party culture"... and who could blame them?

Let the Suns be irresponsibly wasting their talent, the Dons be cheats, the Blues be a basketcase, the Lions be full of unrest, the Giants be a club without a soul, etc, etc. Let THEM be the ones to be ripped to shreds by the media for a change. Don't hand our enemies a free hit.

 

[joop]

gardiner had already resolved his issues before he was drafted. spent a year at claremont and had a glowing character reference. not the same as bennell who still hasnt changed

Considering he was doing drugs 2 years ago and his latest 'incident' is getting in an argument with a bouncer I'd say he's definitely changed.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Back to Harley, this is seriously a massively overblown reaction. Every AFL player not taking part in the finals will be out having a few beers today (or last night) & most of them will get an absolute skinfull.

No, not EVERY player will - NONE of ours will. And with flipping good reason. We didn't just decide to avoid Mad Monday for the heck of it. We decided that, because our brand is like a man who just got taken off life support - fragile. Very, very fragile. We cannot afford to take risks, not with any of the kids we ALREADY have, let alone with anybody else who comes in.

 

[Winners Only]

I have worked with both rural and urbanised indigenous kids for the past 30 years. Loris did say the family had issues that's why he ended up with Mrs Bennell, and his history at the Suns suggests there were behaviuoral issues early on when he landed at the club.

Regarless of how wonderful a role model Mrs Bennell was, I have seen how older indigenous folk struggle to maintain any form of discipline with their children. They get love and care from the adapted parent but they lack adequate male role models and direction. Its a break down in their traditional systems where the whole family was involved in the raising of their kids.

Some of violence and destructive behaviours and hardships these kids are exposed to is unimaginable to the average white Australian. In some ways their up bringing is a damaging as what a Sudanese kid would go through without the 'bombs'.

Thats not to suggest Harley is a bad person that cant change, it just that the club cant afford any potential fall out!

 

[kernelT]

For everybody saying we should get Bennell, you are effectively saying that you have no interest in us getting any new big sponsors, or quite seriously keeping some of the ones we already have. The sponsorship team, including Finnis, have bent over backwards to assure sponsors, "We've changed! We've changed! We won't destroy your brand, trust us!"

Seriously, how anybody could even consider this is just astonishing to me. Our brand is awful, awful, awful. This year, FINALLY, we've actually had media dip their toe in the water to say, "Hmm, Saints aren't as bad as they used to be... seem to be doing well at this rebuild thing." Those same media would jump on something like this and go back to the classic cliches about our club's "party culture"... and who could blame them?

Let the Suns be irresponsibly wasting their talent, the Dons be cheats, the Blues be a basketcase, the Lions be full of unrest, the Giants be a club without a soul, etc, etc. Let THEM be the ones to be ripped to shreds by the media for a change. Don't hand our enemies a free hit.

Why would we be pursuing him already if this was the case?

 

[joop]

For everybody saying we should get Bennell, you are effectively saying that you have no interest in us getting any new big sponsors, or quite seriously keeping some of the ones we already have. The sponsorship team, including Finnis, have bent over backwards to assure sponsors, "We've changed! We've changed! We won't destroy your brand, trust us!"

Seriously, how anybody could even consider this is just astonishing to me. Our brand is awful, awful, awful. This year, FINALLY, we've actually had media dip their toe in the water to say, "Hmm, Saints aren't as bad as they used to be... seem to be doing well at this rebuild thing." Those same media would jump on something like this and go back to the classic cliches about our club's "party culture"... and who could blame them?

Let the Suns be irresponsibly wasting their talent, the Dons be cheats, the Blues be a basketcase, the Lions be full of unrest, the Giants be a club without a soul, etc, etc. Let THEM be the ones to be ripped to shreds by the media for a change. Don't hand our enemies a free hit.

Our brand is awful because we don't win premierships. Should we get rid of every player that makes an off-field mistake now so we can get sponsors? Steven got done drink-driving, Webster bashed a kid in an un-provoked attack in Hobart, why do we persist with those guys but don't take a chance on an elite talent who I'd say has done far less then them?

 

[Persevering Saint]

Considering he was doing drugs 2 years ago and his latest 'incident' is getting in an argument with a bouncer I'd say he's definitely changed.

How he should have acted towards the bouncer isn't the point. He wouldn't have had to figure that out if he hadn't gone out in the first place. We can talk about them all being human, etc, etc, until the cows come home. But he's not like other players. He's a player who said he had one last chance, and he used up his one last chance. If he wants to have fun, buy a scrabble board. Going out to bars is not a necessity in life. It just isn't. And if he's found himself in dangerous situations (to his own brand and ongoing professional life) before, then it's a thing to be avoided like the plague.

You save yourself from incident by staying home, or going to a mate's place and having a few quiet ones. That may seem unfair, but seriously, with what's at stake for clubs now (especially ours!) that's the way they have to start thinking - y'know, like adults (crazy thought, I know...).

 

[Persevering Saint]

Why would we be pursuing him already if this was the case?

How much we were doing that is highly debateable. If we were, it's because he went on national television to say he'd changed, and we'd made the assumption that when somebody does something that big, they actually mean it. Turns out he doesn't.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Our brand is awful because we don't win premierships. Should we get rid of every player that makes an off-field mistake now so we can get sponsors? Steven got done drink-driving, Webster bashed a kid in an un-provoked attack in Hobart, why do we persist with those guys but don't take a chance on an elite talent who I'd say has done far less then them?

And part of the reason we don't win premierships, is because our players get distracted by having our captain's penis stuck all over the internet.

As for Steven, etc, you'll notice that pretty much everybody else involved in that incident WAY long ago, is now gone, except for Jack - his exceptional talent saved his sorry butt. And it WAS a long, LOOONG time ago, at a very different cultural point in our journey. Heck, it's part of the reason we recognised we needed to change direction in that journey.

As for Webster, there's a difference between dealing with the issues that arise for players already on our list, and going out of our way to get new players who perpetually create issues. Webster got VERY severely reprimanded at the time - he was suspended for a few games, at a time when he was considered best 22, and watched as other players took his place, putting his security in that spot under severe jeopardy. Believe me, Webster very clearly learned his lesson, and how fragile his career can be if he ever does anything that stupid again. Bennell seems impervious to learning those kind of lessons.

 

[Periphery]

We should trade Hickey for Bennell imo.