2016 Draft discussion

[Hollow Knight]

Very curious about young Jaden.Is his situation one that demands privacy , and is he still intending to return when he is ready ?

Football not an overwhelming priority right now.

 

[13Beast]

What's happened to Brandon Parfitt? everyone's gone quiet on him..

Probably because myself and Quigley haven't been posting much haha.

He's a gun and I sure hope he's that #23 "smokey" that our recruiters decide upon.

 

[TheZork]

For now. He's probably a good chance to slide to the rookie draft. I suspect we'll go in with 6 spots though. Still think there is something to play out with Jaden McGrath.

This is where academy's (and our need for local talent) can screw with list management in my opinion. We are in need of a KPD and may be happy to take Watson late in the draft/rookie draft, but if we didn't have an academy we'd likely be looking at a more highly rated KPD at pick 16, 21 or 22 (yes I'm assuming that our recruiters don't rate him as the best KPD in the draft). Basically I feel that the guarantee of getting Watson later in the draft means that we can ignore the need for a KPD at one of our higher picks. Whether that's the correct way to go about it I'm not so sure, I'd want the best KPD possible and wouldn't be making selections based on a player living in Brisbane.

Hopefully you get the gist of what I'm trying to say, I'm finding it hard to explain

 

[Ruse]

This is where academy's (and our need for local talent) can screw with list management in my opinion. We are in need of a KPD and may be happy to take Watson late in the draft/rookie draft, but if we didn't have an academy we'd likely be looking at a more highly rated KPD at pick 16, 21 or 22 (yes I'm assuming that our recruiters don't rate him as the best KPD in the draft). Basically I feel that the guarantee of getting Watson later in the draft means that we can ignore the need for a KPD at one of our higher picks. Whether that's the correct way to go about it I'm not so sure, I'd want the best KPD possible and wouldn't be making selections based on a player living in Brisbane.

Hopefully you get the gist of what I'm trying to say, I'm finding it hard to explain

I don't get it. The club is building a list, not picking the absolute best player in the country for every position.

 

[TheZork]

I don't get it. The club is building a list, not picking the absolute best player in the country for every position.

I understand that not every player on the list can be a superstar but when you've got so many high picks why wouldn't you try to pick the absolute best KPD in the country? Especially since it's one of the major holes in our list.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I understand that not every player on the list can be a superstar but when you've got so many high picks why wouldn't you try to pick the absolute best KPD in the country? Especially since it's one of the major holes in our list.

A mature KPD is a hole in our list. Not something we can fix with the draft unfortunately. With Skinner, Andrews, McStay, Gardiner and Watson we have some good future options, they'll just take time. Hopefully Frost can play a solid C grade nullifying role for a few years.

 

[Ruse]

I understand that not every player on the list can be a superstar but when you've got so many high picks why wouldn't you try to pick the absolute best KPD in the country? Especially since it's one of the major holes in our list.

Because we have Watson as an academy prospect?

 

[TheZork]

Because we have Watson as an academy prospect?

But that is exactly my point, I'm assuming (just from general reading, I'm no expert) that there are quite a few KPD's rated more highly. I just don't want us taking a player simply because they're from the academy, if there is a KPD that we rate more highly at 16/21/22 shouldn't we be taking them?
Building a good spine is more important than filling out other positions. it looks like we've got Hipwood and Schache at one end and Andrews at the other, at the moment I don't see another potential A-grade defender. Which is why I put the greatest importance on KPD's this draft. KPP's should preferably be drafted before the rest of the group because they take longer to develop.

 

[M Malice]

But that is exactly my point, I'm assuming (just from general reading, I'm no expert) that there are quite a few KPD's rated more highly. I just don't want us taking a player simply because they're from the academy, if there is a KPD that we rate more highly at 16/21/22 shouldn't we be taking them?

i don't think there any true KPD (195cm+) ranked in the top 25 from my understanding, there are a few 3rd tall types around eg. Witherden/Berry although both project to transform into midfielders.

i agree with you though, if there was an outstanding KPD available i'm sure our recruiters would select him and pass on Watson if need be.

 

[briztoon]

If you really want another KPD, wait until next year, loaded KPP draft.

 

[Ruse]

But that is exactly my point, I'm assuming (just from general reading, I'm no expert) that there are quite a few KPD's rated more highly. I just don't want us taking a player simply because they're from the academy, if there is a KPD that we rate more highly at 16/21/22 shouldn't we be taking them?
Building a good spine is more important than filling out other positions. it looks like we've got Hipwood and Schache at one end and Andrews at the other, at the moment I don't see another potential A-grade defender. Which is why I put the greatest importance on KPD's this draft. KPP's should preferably be drafted before the rest of the group because they take longer to develop.

No, we shouldn't be taking a KPD at pick 16 when we have access to Watson at a later pick. I don't undestand you.

 

[carnthemlions]

As Noble said we'll be addressing needs first and foremost rather than taking the best players available. My top 4 needs for us would be a small forward, a quick outside runner (because we lack pace), a HBand a Key defender (I'm not convinced on Watson and we don't know if Skinner's knee will hold up unfortunately).
I'm hoping draft night goes something like this
3: Ainsworth (Small forward)
16: Witherden/Berry (HB)
21: Brennan Cox/Jack Maibaum/Harrison Macreadie (KPD)
22: Cedric Cox/Bolton/Galluci (Outside run)

If we draft Ainsworth, I sincerely hope it won't be because we have a short term need for a small forward.

 

[Hollow Knight]

If we draft Ainsworth, I sincerely hope it won't be because we have a short term need for a small forward.

Not sure Fagan and Noble could be any clearer and consistent in their messaging that their list management decisions are entirely about the future.

 

[chopperduck]

Or maybe the club ranks midfielders higher at those picks then KPD.

List management comes into it. We have a player available via our academy which fills a need. We could take a KPD with an earlier pick, but then we dont need to take Watson and an academy player gets overlooked. We need to prioritise academy players to keep promoting it, and to help go home factor. We know this player better than other draftees as well.

Also, TBD made the point that we need depth and mature players. A draftee wont actually help that current list need.

 

[marooned]

Or maybe the club ranks midfielders higher at those picks then KPD.

List management comes into it. We have a player available via our academy which fills a need. We could take a KPD with an earlier pick, but then we dont need to take Watson and an academy player gets overlooked. We need to prioritise academy players to keep promoting it, and to help go home factor. We know this player better than other draftees as well.

Also, TBD made the point that we need depth and mature players. A draftee wont actually help that current list need.

Totally disagree we should take academy players to promote it.If the academy player warrants a spot in our squad that's a great outcome for us.But to say every year we are going to take an academy player to make everyone feel warm and fuzzy even if they are not up to the standard required for drafting is absolutely crazy.What would promote our academy would be too many choices and other clubs bidding on multiple kids out of the academy squad

 

[braddsey]

Totally disagree we should take academy players to promote it.If the academy player warrants a spot in our squad that's a great outcome for us.But to say every year we are going to take an academy player to make everyone feel warm and fuzzy even if they are not up to the standard required for drafting is absolutely crazy.What would promote our academy would be too many choices and other clubs bidding on multiple kids out of the academy squad

I don't think we'll be taking academy players to make people feel warm and fuzzy, but if we have a choice between 2 similar players then we should be going the academy kid. The promotion part totally makes sense - we want to be drawing the most gifted young athletes into the academy, and for kids, seeing other academy kids being picked up and getting to stay with the club is the carrot. The better young kids we get into the academy the better the outcomes.
If prospective academy kids see us passing on opportunities for equivalent players then there's some doubt and they're just a likely to remain with their local rugby club. We obviously don't take kids who aren't up to it.

 

[chopperduck]

Totally disagree we should take academy players to promote it.If the academy player warrants a spot in our squad that's a great outcome for us.But to say every year we are going to take an academy player to make everyone feel warm and fuzzy even if they are not up to the standard required for drafting is absolutely crazy.What would promote our academy would be too many choices and other clubs bidding on multiple kids out of the academy squad

If they aren't up to the standard then they don't get a look in. There are academy players every year that don't even get a look in, and there have been a few taken by other clubs. But the original issue wasn't taking academy kids that aren't good enough, it was whether we should take the same type of player higher in the draft and get a higher rated player for that position.

I think it is important for the club to give a chance to those academy players that are good enough so that the clear pathway for these kids when they are 12 and 13 to be able to play for the Lions is real. Obviously that doesn't over rule taking them at the detriment of other list management decisions. But we've already shown we won't take our own academy players just because.

 

[winged1]

We need to promote the academy, if they are up to standard they have tobe taken. It is the only way long term we are going to grow the academy.

I spend a lot of time on jnr footy and kids need a pathway to afl. We are already losing good talent to union at under 12s. We are competing for talent in qld, kids need to see being part of the academy is a big advantage

 

[Jivlain]

Mathieson

Mathieson was a slider, not a smokey. Matho was talked about late first, early second round sort of range but slid over (valid) concerns about his tank.

So we got him in the third. and lucky for us, because he's been a wonder - and has made improving that tank a massive priority.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

This is where academy's (and our need for local talent) can screw with list management in my opinion. We are in need of a KPD and may be happy to take Watson late in the draft/rookie draft, but if we didn't have an academy we'd likely be looking at a more highly rated KPD at pick 16, 21 or 22 (yes I'm assuming that our recruiters don't rate him as the best KPD in the draft). Basically I feel that the guarantee of getting Watson later in the draft means that we can ignore the need for a KPD at one of our higher picks. Whether that's the correct way to go about it I'm not so sure, I'd want the best KPD possible and wouldn't be making selections based on a player living in Brisbane.

Hopefully you get the gist of what I'm trying to say, I'm finding it hard to explain

Watson was shaping up to have a very decent draft year, got a knock to his knee around the time the Allies team was formed, which really seemed to effect him from then. Can recall atleast one of the regular draft watcher (prior to the knock), stating if he kept up his good performance, he'd be pushing for a late first/early second round bid. The appeal is there for a potential draft steal, while keeping access to another top 20 prospect.

The Academy process will lead to further list management decision, if we think that player is a draftable prospect, we should plan accordingly to get maximum value.

 

[marooned]

I don't think we'll be taking academy players to make people feel warm and fuzzy, but if we have a choice between 2 similar players then we should be going the academy kid. The promotion part totally makes sense - we want to be drawing the most gifted young athletes into the academy, and for kids, seeing other academy kids being picked up and getting to stay with the club is the carrot. The better young kids we get into the academy the better the outcomes.
If prospective academy kids see us passing on opportunities for equivalent players then there's some doubt and they're just a likely to remain with their local rugby club. We obviously don't take kids who aren't up to it.

If we are targeting a KPD we should take the best available not say well we have a kid in the academy not the best available but might make it and it will show there is a pathway to the seniors. The academy is and should be there to give kids every possible chance to fulfill their potential and hopefully be the best player in their position.

 

[Len S]

A mature KPD is a hole in our list. Not something we can fix with the draft unfortunately. With Skinner, Andrews, McStay, Gardiner and Watson we have some good future options, they'll just take time. Hopefully Frost can play a solid C grade nullifying role for a few years.

If we draft Ainsworth, I sincerely hope it won't be because we have a short term need for a small forward.

There has been detailed discussion of Ainsworth on the board which documents his career,and that his play as a forward largely only occurred after injury and fitness .issues ,so am surprised people are still banging on about it.He's a midfielder who can go forward to devasting effect.He is the impact player of the draft.

 

[chopperduck]

If we are targeting a KPD we should take the best available not say well we have a kid in the academy not the best available but might make it and it will show there is a pathway to the seniors. The academy is and should be there to give kids every possible chance to fulfill their potential and hopefully be the best player in their position.

Which comes back to the other point. It is all well and good to say we need x y and z, but at some point you have to prioritize them. You cant get the best available of everything, and considering the quality of mids in this draft perhaps we just dont want to spend a high pick on a defender when we can get a mid we rate higher on ability.

If we rate Watson as a decent KPD option why burn a higher pick? Maybe the need for more young defenders isnt that high and we are happy taking an academy selection.

At this point in time our need for mids is higher than it is for defenders. Id rather spend the high picks on the higher needs, and bank a KPD we are familiar with.

 

[SizeMatters]

There has been detailed discussion of Ainsworth on the board which documents his career,and that his play as a forward largely only occurred after injury and fitness .issues ,so am surprised people are still banging on about it.He's a midfielder who can go forward to devasting effect.He is the impact player of the draft.

How do you see McCluggage Len? He could be a chance to be available at 3 if McGrath and Ainsworth are snapped up.

 

[lionshine]

One player whose barely been mentioned on here if at all who I don't mind is Jarryd's younger brother Corey Lyons. Really good user of the footy.