Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

[Pafloyul]

So lets keep turning over 10-15 players every season in the hope that eventually we will start getting some good ones... and in 3 years time, it's going to be their turn in the gun to be turned over...

Being too aggressive in our list management will see us end up like Melbourne... conversely, being too conservative will see us end up like we were during the Ratten period.

Who said anything about turning over 10-15 players every year? I'm talking about the strategic trading of players of value to other clubs when we need to in order to have our list right when the so-called 'window of opportunity' comes around. The idea that you should 'never trade your good players' is simplistic in the extreme. We should be targeting players we like and be trying to manoeuvre into the draft positions that will likely nab them, that includes trading up or down in the draft if need be. Our lack of anything resembling a drafting and recruiting strategy, for severally years after (or even slightly before) our last premiership, has proven disastrous.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

What a surprise. The perennial trade Gibbs talk.

 

[Bluey24]

Last I heard the club had made great strides off field and had become far more unified with a clear plan and quality personnel. Since you weren't speaking in the past tense I can only assume there are people there you still have an issue with.

Agreed.

If you had told me before the season that our biggest loss would be 71 points, I would have taken that.

 

[Jeremias]

Our third+Levi for a pick in the 20s is a bit more reasonable. Levi on his own not a chance

I see value in trading Casboult but given where we're likely to finish on the ladder, that's effectively giving him away for free. I don't like that.

If we're moving him with our second 3rd round pick (tied to the Dogs' final ladder position) that makes it slightly more palatable and - best case scenario (ie. receiving pick 19 in return which won't happen) - values him at pick 30.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Do you really think Sydney would take that?

I know we're on a footy forum and we can hypothesise and make imaginary trades but this is ludicrous af.

Depends...
AF hey?
Let's see how much salary cap pressure they are under first.
Tuohy clearly worth a pick 15-25
Mitchell is probably their 4th best midfielder.
If he choose us and Tuohy choose them, it would be close. Not ludicrous as you so stupidly put it

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Think thats underselling gibbs a little here hes still been pretty dam good overall since murphys been out which is quite awhile now ? Gibbs am i right in saying has had a or near to a career best year? the last 3 games may decide that although if he does or doesnt finish off well .

In your opinion which games do you think he played well after Murphy's injury?

 

[Wickzki]

In your opinion which games do you think he played well after Murphy's injury?

The game he got injured in was best on ground to the point where he should have gotten all 6 Brownlow votes. Was brilliant on his own and slaughtered Danger.

GWS - 14 contested possessions, 10 clearances and nine tackles.
Sydney - 15 contested possessions, 11 tackles and eight inside-50s

 

[Unknown Origin]

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest we can get a pick in the 20s in a trade involving Levi.

tbh id be surprised if anyone wanted levi....very surprised

 

[Blue_Fusion]

The game he got injured in was best on ground to the point where he should have gotten all 6 Brownlow votes. Was brilliant on his own and slaughtered Danger.

GWS - 14 contested possessions, 10 clearances and nine tackles.
Sydney - 15 contested possessions, 11 tackles and eight inside-50s

Geelong game he was the match winner imo.

GWS he was ok but I saw Shiel bumping him off the ball too easily for my liking.
Sydney game he was quite good.

But that's 2-3 games out of how many?

Before Murphy got injured he was on fire having his best month since 2014.

So I think that backs up my point. He goes well when he isn't the main focus, but when he is, he finds it tough. In a team like Adelaide he's going to be able to play his game without all the attention he gets here and with the support from the Crows players he'll be able to put in more consistent performances.

 

[Wickzki]

tbh id be surprised if anyone wanted levi....very surprised

There will always be interest in a player that can mark the ball as well as he can.

He's been carrying an injury all year which, if he cleared a medical for another club, would go a significant way to explaining his poor form and somewhat excuse him.

Some teams will not place as much significance on his kicking liability.

I fully expect him to get traded to the Bulldogs. Levi and our fourth for their second. They'll then trade their and our fourth into the third round. This would give them a 2017 KPP of Boyd, Casboult and Crameri. Redpath would be able to concentrate on his recovery from the knee and push for selection in the second half of the season. Casboult wouldn't be relied upon to be a primary goal scorer. His job would be to be the Earl Spalding of that team. The goals that he'd kick would be the cream to the pressure he'd ease from Crameri, Boyd and others like Stringer, Dickson, et al.

 

[La Dispute]

Depends...
AF hey?
Let's see how much salary cap pressure they are under first.
Tuohy clearly worth a pick 15-25
Mitchell is probably their 4th best midfielder.
If he choose us and Tuohy choose them, it would be close. Not ludicrous as you so stupidly put it

Which team would pay a first rounder for Tuohy? Mitchell is wanted by a number of Victorian teams and would command a Top 10, if not a Top 5 selection.

Touhy is a B-Grade rebounding defender with roughly 5 years left - Mitchell is an already A-class inside midfielder with 10 years+ to plus. It's a very simple equation.

 

[Wickzki]

Touhy is a B-Grade rebounding defender with roughly 5 years left - Mitchell is an already A-class inside midfielder with 10 years+ to plus. It's a very simple equation.

10+ years is pushing it a little. Mitchell is already. His type of position - grunt midfielder - generally retire from about 29/31. I'd suggest that he has 8 years in his career (6 if his career goes south). Tuohy's 26 and is capable of playing a little older than Mitchell dependent upon how his legs hold up. I'd say he has 5 to 7 years left in his.career

 

[juzza316]

So we go back to delisting players who are no longer in our plans.

Were you in charge 2 years ago?

That worked out really well.

Let Robbo go for free - he tied for first place in Lions B&F.

Garlett went for pick 61 - looks to be going ok right now.

Oh that's right "If we don't want these players, who does?"

That's partly the attitude that got us in this shit in the first place.

Garlett has kicked 19 goals in 15 games. Hardly setting the world on fire.
Robbo has been a good pickup for the Lions but winning the Lions B&F is hardly brownlow medal form.
What did you expect we would get for these guys, we were hardly in a position of power?

Perhaps you could do a better job and propose a Levi or Everitt trade for B Crouch? That would have us sitting in the trade table corner playing tiddlywinks with Adrian Dodoro.

 

[La Dispute]

10+ years is pushing it a little. Mitchell is already. His type of position - grunt midfielder - generally retire from about 29/31. I'd suggest that he has 8 years in his career (6 if his career goes south). Tuohy's 26 and is capable of playing a little older than Mitchell dependent upon how his legs hold up. I'd say he has 5 to 7 years left in his.career

None of that is true and regardless Sydney won't be exchanging a gun for an OK-decent back pocket player.

 

[Unknown Origin]

There will always be interest in a player that can mark the ball as well as he can.

He's been carrying an injury all year which, if he cleared a medical for another club, would go a significant way to explaining his poor form and somewhat excuse him.

Some teams will not place as much significance on his kicking liability.

I fully expect him to get traded to the Bulldogs. Levi and our fourth for their second. They'll then trade their and our fourth into the third round. This would give them a 2017 KPP of Boyd, Casboult and Crameri. Redpath would be able to concentrate on his recovery from the knee and push for selection in the second half of the season. Casboult wouldn't be relied upon to be a primary goal scorer. His job would be to be the Earl Spalding of that team. The goals that he'd kick would be the cream to the pressure he'd ease from Crameri, Boyd and others like Stringer, Dickson, et al.

Valid Points, I see your reasoning here.

I don't think I can handle another season watching levi kick for goal...I am beyond over it.

I've actually gotten to the stage where I'd prefer Jones to play instead of Levi which I thought I'd never say

 

[skadoosh]

I had hopes for Casboult. Always hoped he could somehow improve his kicking.
However, over the last month or two he has kicked hardly ANY goals as our main forward and he's taking less contested marks than before. If he doesn't make the ball, and it goes to ground it is game over.

I'm really not sure how he is useful to us at all.

We can get rid of him.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Garlett has kicked 19 goals in 15 games. Hardly setting the world on fire.

So, he'd be our best goal kicker! Three more then get this: Dre who has 16 and is leading our goal kicking.

 

[juzza316]

So, he'd be our best goal kicker! Three more then get this: Dre who has 16 and is leading our goal kicking.

Oh dear, that is terrible!

 

[ferrisb]

I had hopes for Casboult. Always hoped he could somehow improve his kicking.
However, over the last month or two he has kicked hardly ANY goals as our main forward and he's taking less contested marks than before. If he doesn't make the ball, and it goes to ground it is game over.

I'm really not sure how he is useful to us at all.

We can get rid of him.

Last year's goalkicking improvement under Sav was the ultimate dope-a-rope...

 

[DangerousD]

Do you really think Sydney would take that?

I know we're on a footy forum and we can hypothesise and make imaginary trades but this is ludicrous af.

Of course a straight swap wouldn't work, but Tuohy and 22 for Mitchell and 36 maybe

 

[Heres Waite]

For what its worth, I'm close to someone who works at the Crows. I asked him if he has heard anything about Bryce Gibbs. He said he has heard "nothing about Bryce Gibbs" but hinted that the Crows are after another big name player from a Melbourne club (not Carlton). Also B Crouch had a meeting about his contract on Monday ... he will most likely be re-signing.

 

[ferrisb]

Damn you, hyphen!

 

[La Dispute]

Of course a straight swap wouldn't work, but Tuohy and 22 for Mitchell and 36 maybe

If there are multiple clubs after Mitchell (again, an established gun) why would they accept such a meagre trade?

Would we accept Rampe for Cripps? Some serious overrating of Tuohy and underrating of Mitchell.

 

[DangerousD]

Which team would pay a first rounder for Tuohy? Mitchell is wanted by a number of Victorian teams and would command a Top 10, if not a Top 5 selection.

Touhy is a B-Grade rebounding defender with roughly 5 years left - Mitchell is an already A-class inside midfielder with 10 years+ to plus. It's a very simple equation.

If Mitchell has 10+ years left taking him to 33 then Tuohy has 7 years left taking him to 33. To suggest Mitchell is worth top 5 is very optimistic, 10 i think is spot on. So if Tuohy was worth 20 and Mitchell worth 10 then in points term that is only a 483 point shortfall. We could swap pick 22 for their second which is worst case 36.

 

[Iamcarlton]

For what its worth, I'm close to someone who works at the Crows. I asked him if he has heard anything about Bryce Gibbs. He said he has heard "nothing about Bryce Gibbs" but hinted that the Crows are after another big name player from a Melbourne club (not Carlton). Also B Crouch had a meeting about his contract on Monday ... he will most likely be re-signing.

Crouch doesnt have a manager ?