2016 Non Crows AFL Discussion thread Part 2

[gothecrows]

Just wanted to say - that I reckon Jordan Lewis should not have been reported. After seeing the incident a few times in full, he really does punch him in the arm and it slips up onto the chin. I know his example was used in the Sloane debate a lot ... and although the first footage I saw looked like Lewis just punched the bloke in the jaw - that was not the reality

How is that any different from a player who chooses to bump, and accidentally hits someone high?
Any deliberate strike should be be an automatic suspension IMO.

 

[Scorpus]

His kicking action is the same now as when he was drafted. His draft reports raised the kicking action but dismissed it as an impediment to a career.

He's still then drafted as a top 10 player so it CANT have been an issue.

Something has happened mentally to cause the malfunction. He's an elite contested mark.

I would give a 3rd or 4th for him in a heartbeat and give him to our outstanding KPP development team.

Butcher is beyond repair. I don't want him anywhere near our list

 

[baldandbroke]

How is that any different from a player who chooses to bump, and accidentally hits someone high?
Any deliberate strike should be be an automatic suspension IMO.

Because at the moment it isn't.

 

[gothecrows]

Because at the moment it isn't.

They were two separate statements. At the moment, players who elect to bump are suspended when accidentally hitting someone high.
You argued that because Lewis was attempting to hit someone in the arm and "accidentally" (and I call bullshit on that too) hit him in the head, it's not worth a suspension. I disagree.

Then, as an extension, I added that I think any deliberate strike should be penalised more harshly, if anything.

 

[baldandbroke]

They were two separate statements. At the moment, players who elect to bump are suspended when accidentally hitting someone high.
You argued that because Lewis was attempting to hit someone in the arm and "accidentally" (and I call bullshit on that too) hit him in the head, it's not worth a suspension. I disagree.

Then, as an extension, I added that I think any deliberate strike should be penalised more harshly, if anything.

Firstly, watch the incident again - he punches him in the upper arm - as a retaliation to the bloke holding him down ... I have zero problems with what Lewis did.


If you want all punches to be reportable - no argument from me - but they aren't at the moment. So it was correct for Lewis not to be reported.

Your second point - How do you possibly identify deliberate? You don't actually know if Sloane's hit was deliberate. As soon as you are trying to guess intent you are in a world of grey.

 

[Pdub]

Suns already had a heap of early picks this year, now with prestia and Omera they will be having a big draft day or trade week.

 

[baldandbroke]

Suns already had a heap of early picks this year, now with prestia and Omera they will be having a big draft day or trade week.

Surely they need to get some players via trade week at this stage of their development?

 

[Pdub]

Surely they need to get some players via trade week at this stage of their development?

Yeah I'd be going after guys like CEY if I was them

 

[displacedaussie]

Sorry I'm not sure how to do it, would you mind posting just the 2016 rating?

This is his 2016 season.

1 SANFL Finally kicked a goal in the last term but it definitely wasn't his night. -
2 SANFL One of his best games. Nailed 4.2 and took some superb marks. -
3 SANFL Slotted three first-half goals and always presented. -
4 SANFL Bye. -
5 SANFL Looked dangerous once again and his kicking was reasonable. -
6 SANFL Presented well and kicked a goal but looked frustrated at times. -
7 SANFL Had a genuine crack but goalkicking (2.4) was errant. -
8 SANFL Kicked an early goal but barely got a sniff for the rest of the day. -
9 SANFL Kicking was all over the shop again but still finished with 3.2. -
10 SANFL Bye. -
11 SANFL Nailed two majors and never stopped trying. -
12 SANFL Kicked a goal and laid four tackles but lowered his colours to Evans. -
13 SANFL Boosted Port with three first-half goals. Tackled and harassed too. -
14 SANFL Bye. -
15 SANFL Had a day out. Marked majestically and slammed 6.2. -
16 SANFL Kicked two majors and was always in the contest. -
17 SANFL Five kicks, six marks, three goals. Makes things happen. -
18 GWS First game of the year, did provide a contest. 3
19 Bris Exposed Brisbane’s inexperienced defence with four goals including three in a row in third term. 7
20 Syd Kicked a goal, but Rampe had his measure most of day and even pressed into attack. 3
21 SANFL Never quite got going. -
22 SANFL Slammed four goals and his pack marking was a treat. -

 

[arrowman]

Firstly, watch the incident again - he punches him in the upper arm - as a retaliation to the bloke holding him down ... I have zero problems with what Lewis did.


If you want all punches to be reportable - no argument from me - but they aren't at the moment. So it was correct for Lewis not to be reported.

Your second point - How do you possibly identify deliberate? You don't actually know if Sloane's hit was deliberate. As soon as you are trying to guess intent you are in a world of grey.

Lewis's was a deliberate action with a closed fist. IMO that is enough to warrant some sort of sanction, and the fact that he aimed it at the arm doesn't let him off, just as for the head high bump "slipping high" or whatever. If you don't want to be sanctioned, don't close your fist.

That said, it seems to me that the MRP is unwilling to hand out even a 1-match suspension for an action like Lewis's, and I tend to agree, much as I think it was reportable, a suspension might be a bit harsh.

As for "deliberate" - Sloane's action was IMO clearly not deliberate, Lewis's was (at least, the closed fist part, if not the head high). You're right that it's very hard to determine intent, but there are some times when it's clear.

 

[baldandbroke]

Lewis's was a deliberate action with a closed fist. IMO that is enough to warrant some sort of sanction, and the fact that he aimed it at the arm doesn't let him off, just as for the head high bump "slipping high" or whatever. If you don't want to be sanctioned, don't close your fist.

That said, it seems to me that the MRP is unwilling to hand out even a 1-match suspension for an action like Lewis's, and I tend to agree, much as I think it was reportable, a suspension might be a bit harsh.

As for "deliberate" - Sloane's action was IMO clearly not deliberate, Lewis's was (at least, the closed fist part, if not the head high). You're right that it's very hard to determine intent, but there are some times when it's clear.

I'd prefer the action to be the reportable thing ... ignore intent.

Any swinging arm or punch that makes contact with the head should be a straight report. Then the intent becomes irrelevant. What Sloane did was a free / 50m penalty thats it imo - Straight arm made contact high in the contest - not a punch in any way. (also did not think it was intentional)

Like we now say the onus is on the player that bumps (unless you are Rioli) - I agree that the same should be laid down as law for punches / swinging arms.

 

[SmegHead]

Firstly, watch the incident again - he punches him in the upper arm - as a retaliation to the bloke holding him down ... I have zero problems with what Lewis did.


If you want all punches to be reportable - no argument from me - but they aren't at the moment. So it was correct for Lewis not to be reported.

Your second point - How do you possibly identify deliberate? You don't actually know if Sloane's hit was deliberate. As soon as you are trying to guess intent you are in a world of grey.

Wasnt there a report a few seasons back -- a Player A was knocked to the ground and Player B was standing on his ankle. Player A kicked at B's leg to get him to move. Player A was reported for kicking and got a week (or 2?). Player A appealed and argued that he had 100kgs of meat directly on his ankle and he had no choice but to try and get him to move.

IIRC correctly the tribunal said that it wasn't enough of a defence and he still got suspended.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[footy4ever]

Firstly, watch the incident again - he punches him in the upper arm - as a retaliation to the bloke holding him down ... I have zero problems with what Lewis did.


If you want all punches to be reportable - no argument from me - but they aren't at the moment. So it was correct for Lewis not to be reported.

Your second point - How do you possibly identify deliberate? You don't actually know if Sloane's hit was deliberate. As soon as you are trying to guess intent you are in a world of grey.

Whats the diff? Rory punches at the ball and misses and hits the face. Lewis (not even in the play) purposely punches to hurt a player, misses and hits the face.

 

[MRB37]

Yeah I'd be going after guys like CEY if I was them

 

[thebeedee]

Jaeger O'Meara gone from the Suns.

My favourite line: It's the right time for the club to make a stance. And we do so for the sake of our current players, supporters, partners and the thousands of junior AFL participants who are building the foundation of this club.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Just wanted to say - that I reckon Jordan Lewis should not have been reported. After seeing the incident a few times in full, he really does punch him in the arm and it slips up onto the chin. I know his example was used in the Sloane debate a lot ... and although the first footage I saw looked like Lewis just punched the bloke in the jaw - that was not the reality

How is that an excuse though?

I meant to fire a warning shot above his head but instead shot him right between the eyes.

It's like if a player tries to execute a legal bump but accidentally gets him high. If you choose to bump...

 

[Samcro24]

How are they uselss, they can on-trade them for players.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Is there a feeling among injured Suns players that the club doesn't have state of the art medical facilities or first rate medical staff?

 

[NikkiNoo]

Is there a feeling among injured Suns players that the club doesn't have state of the art medical facilities or first rate medical staff?

Or a case of those naturally gifted top line talent who haven't had to work too hard before to have success come their way?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

How are they uselss, they can on-trade them for players.

We've been talking up our depth. Chance to cash it in here.

Either cautiously by sending Kerridges up there or boldly by sending first 22ers up there and backing our Kerridges to stand up.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Or a case of those naturally gifted top line talent who haven't had to work too hard before to have success come their way?

O'Meara, D Swallow and Prestia have struggled to get on the park.

Andrew Swallow made some fairly telling comments on TFS when it was revealed David had come to Melbourne to get some treatment/advice from the North Melbourne club doctor.

 

[baldandbroke]

Whats the diff? Rory punches at the ball and misses and hits the face. Lewis (not even in the play) purposely punches to hurt a player, misses and hits the face.

None .... agreed. I think Rory should have got off too.

 

[Ozzie]

I wouldn't give him the wind out of my backside to cool his porridge let alone money out of my wallet.

I'm gonna remember this and use it often. Thankyou!

 

[mistylake]

That could be applied to a lot of Clubs though. The fact is that the Power treats the Showdowns like grand finals especially more so when their season has effectively ended. No one was really surprised that they turned up to try and spoil the Crows Top 4 finals chances with a "strong" performance. Crows coming off a WA trip on a 6 day break with poor accuracy was what made the Power appear better than what they demonstrated.

Yeah I forgot about the goal kicking in the second quarter. Tried to block that from my memory. Cheers.

 

[Roo Lives Again]

Surely they need to get some players via trade week at this stage of their development?

VB VB VB!!!!