List Mgmt. 2017 Draft Discussion (cont in Pt 2)

[gringo2011]

The way it’s heading it seems Stepho will not only be there, but will slide past. And that probably means Cerra and Brayshaw will be gone. You can see the HC rumours and how that’s come about. Could well be Clark and Bonar.

The guy must be able to drive a car through the hole in his heart then. He'll be a superstar.

 

[Flandersss]

My preference at the moment

1. Rayner
2. Dow
3. LDU
4. Stephenson
5. Cerra
6. Brayshaw
7. Coffield
8. Bonar

If this is worst case, we’re still winners

 

[bird_man]

To be fair neither are Naughton/Murphy/Coffield yet we are linked to all of them.

Fair call, although I really like Coffield as he can play a range of positions, has speed and class and use so the footy well.

I wouldn’t even be disappointed if he ended up another back flanker as I don’t think we have the quality down there that some think we do. Just my opinion though.

 

[gringo2011]

To be fair neither are Naughton/Murphy/Coffield yet we are linked to all of them.

An outside mid/ wing man and a half back flanker aren't that different. Being able to win your own ball in tight and work through congestion aren't requisites for outside mids but don't hurt if you can. His game should translate to the role even though he might not have lined up in the position he'll play in.

In that role he needs to be able to take on players in front of him and get around them, motor away from chasing players, run alongside other players to provide a handball link up target, use his kicking to set up leading players etc. All that he already does well. He can go in and win his own ball very proficiently as well as a bonus.

People want Coalfield who sees to be a Roberton type of rangy third tall runner in defence and hope he'll be an inside mid that we don't need. Brayshaw is a messy inside mid and everyone on here has to have a flog thinking about him. I don't get other people. I think I'm turning into Larry David.

 

[Flandersss]

An outside mid/ wing man and a half back flanker aren't that different. Being able to win your own ball in tight and work through congestion aren't requisites for outside mids but don't hurt if you can. His game should translate to the role even though he might not have lined up in the position he'll play in.

In that role he needs to be able to take on players in front of him and get around them, motor away from chasing players, run alongside other players to provide a handball link up target, use his kicking to set up leading players etc. All that he already does well. He can go in and win his own ball very proficiently as well as a bonus.

People want Coalfield who sees to be a Roberton type of rangy third tall runner in defence and hope he'll be an inside mid that we don't need. Brayshaw is a messy inside mid and everyone on here has to have a flog thinking about him. I don't get other people. I think I'm turning into Larry David.

 

[gringo2011]

After looking at the Kelly , Ryan highlights , they would have to be the best highlights of any of the draft picks , one touch class players - to tell you the truth these guys should just about be top ten .
we took long at 24 and these guys are slick.

Why are these draft experts over looking these guys.

I still see we go for Cerra , Fogarty , Stephenson , Coffield , Brayshaw but our 2nd round pick should be one of Kelly or Ryan - would top off our forward line , just class

I think there are always worries that the indigenous kids will want to head back home to be with family. Both are very good prospects but clubs will over look talent for a more certain bet these days. Free and WC get a distinct advantage with WA kids.

 

[bird_man]

An outside mid/ wing man and a half back flanker aren't that different. Being able to win your own ball in tight and work through congestion aren't requisites for outside mids but don't hurt if you can. His game should translate to the role even though he might not have lined up in the position he'll play in.

In that role he needs to be able to take on players in front of him and get around them, motor away from chasing players, run alongside other players to provide a handball link up target, use his kicking to set up leading players etc. All that he already does well. He can go in and win his own ball very proficiently as well as a bonus.

People want Coalfield who sees to be a Roberton type of rangy third tall runner in defence and hope he'll be an inside mid that we don't need. Brayshaw is a messy inside mid and everyone on here has to have a flog thinking about him. I don't get other people. I think I'm turning into Larry David.

Brayshaw has a kicking efficiency of 100% in the champs IIRC.

 

[aussierulesrules]

An outside mid/ wing man and a half back flanker aren't that different. Being able to win your own ball in tight and work through congestion aren't requisites for outside mids but don't hurt if you can. His game should translate to the role even though he might not have lined up in the position he'll play in.

In that role he needs to be able to take on players in front of him and get around them, motor away from chasing players, run alongside other players to provide a handball link up target, use his kicking to set up leading players etc. All that he already does well. He can go in and win his own ball very proficiently as well as a bonus.

People want Coalfield who sees to be a Roberton type of rangy third tall runner in defence and hope he'll be an inside mid that we don't need. Brayshaw is a messy inside mid and everyone on here has to have a flog thinking about him. I don't get other people. I think I'm turning into Larry David.

What the hell, Brayshaw is a "messy inside mid" and you reckon he's inside only, despite the fact he's clearly the cleaner of the two (hence being the one in the mix for pick 1 and having the higher efficiency, especially kicking) and that everything you said about Clark being able to play on the wing could just as easily be applied to Brayshaw!?

Your bagging of him is completely and ridiculously irrational. It's like you're watch vids of Hamish Brayshaw and then applying what you've seen in your comments about Andrew!

 

[Joffaboy]

These people having us take Hartung, really? Come on, the team below us chopped, why would we want him?

Gold Coast chopped Mav, Sydney chopped Membrey, Freo chopped Roberton.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Brayshaw has a kicking efficiency of 100% in the champs IIRC.

I think we all need to just completely ignore anything he says about Brayshaw, because it's like reading anything ManOfClay says about St Kilda or anyone who plays for us!

 

[gringo2011]

Fair bit of talk about HC from this post onwards, including views about his kicking, running abilities and which roles he'll be best suited to.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bishops-2017-draft-thread.1162459/page-85#post-53466659

Funny because someone mentioned there is a bit of Rory Sloan about him, I remember watching that under 17s all stars last year and thinking that. I sound like his biggest cheer leader but still prefer Stephenson if we had to choose between the two. If we get both I'll be happy.

 

[gringo2011]

I think you're overrating his underage year though. Only averaged 16 disposals per game in his 10 TAC Cup games in 2016 and only 7.5 disposals per game in his two champs games.

Compare that to say LOB, who averaged 24 and 14 disposals respectively per game in his underage year, or Sam Walsh this year for Geelong for instance, who averaged something like 28, even though he's not eligible until next year. Sounds like he went really well at 16yo tho.

I don't think you need to worry though, we clearly rate what they do over a number of years, otherwise we probably wouldn't have drafted Billings or Paddy, or J-Webb, apart from anyone else.

LOB was good last year, I still find it hard to let go that he won't be a star. I can see him being a gun at another club.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Gold Coast chopped Mav, Sydney chopped Membrey, Freo chopped Roberton.

The first one is correct, but both Freo and Sydney definitely wanted to keep the other two. Robbo was coming home come hell or high water and Skunk left for more opps and Sydney delisted him as a favour to us, after we weren't able to get a draft pick that was worth anything to them.

There has been a rumour or suggestion that Hartung cut ties with Hawthorn though, and that it wasn't simply a case of them chopping him after no-one would trade for him.

 

[Joffaboy]

Some massive overthinking going on.

1. Every single potential has weaknesses
2. To carry on about "sloppy" disposal and kicking % is plain silly.
So if we had the chance we knock back Dangerfield who butchers the ball time and again.

Rob Harvey was never a penetrating kick. We would have let him pass?

3. We wont know for years if these kids are going to be stars

 

[aussierulesrules]

Funny because someone mentioned there is a bit of Rory Sloan about him, I remember watching that under 17s all stars last year and thinking that. I sound like his biggest cheer leader but still prefer Stephenson if we had to choose between the two. If we get both I'll be happy.

Yeah I have for months thought of him as Jack Newnes but with inside capabilities and also see some Farren Ray in him, but if I had to compare him to just one it would be Sloane. That's what whoever drafts him will be hoping for.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If pick 1 takes Brayshaw, or Fogerty and they spud it up, its a bad choice. IF they slide and we get them its not our fault because they were the best leftover.
AWESOME !!!

 

[Sniffy Jenkins]

Top 5 taking shape I feel

Brisbane-
1. Brayshaw.....Ticks more boxes than Rayner for them and no flight risk. Leadership qualities fits Lions culture rebuild. Not the sexy pick Lions fans want but sounds like they maybe favouring him.

Fremantle-
2. LDU......Seems best fit for Dockers as bonafide Mid. They Don't take Rayner because they won't get LDU at #5 because Cerra interviewed poorly with them, Home-sickness (Girlfriend) an issue and Dow is considered a flight risk also. Freo fans calling Cerra a FIGJAM mummas boy over on their forum lol

Carlton-
3. Rayner......Falls in Blues lap after being touted as best in draft for some time, to good to overlook. Star factor up forward can win games lone handed. Will add a mid at pick 10 if they want remembering they landed highly rated Kennedy from GWS in trade period despite losing Gibbs so not in a panic to replenish midfield stocks with #3 and #10

North Melbourne-
4. Dow.......Easy choice & Best mid available here. Would have maybe considered Stephenson but the ticker may have spooked them or Brayshaw going 1 pushes Dow down who they probably didn't think they could get a couple weeks ago. Cerra again interviewed poorly here, seems he has preferences in Pies and Saints.

Fremantle-
5. Fogarty.......Get a Forward/Mid Utility in D Fog who can help there putrid forward line to much reliance on Cam McCarthy and Walters firing for them. Same height as Pavlich and can throw him in middle with LDU, Fyfe and Mundy. Running of the bulls. They don't necessarily need two Mids as they are pretty set with plenty of outside class also. Hill brothers, Neale, Bennell etc. Plus Cerra kinda forces this selection. Prospect of Naughton/Stephenson maybe causing them some restless nights but Fogarty could be the next Pav.

From here it gets murky which is all the more frustrating because its the 'Riff Raff' and only one pick before us. We need some clarity FFS

Collingwood-
6. Cerra/Naughton/Coffield/Murphy/Stephenson.......Do they go need (Naughton) or best available (Cerra). Naughton isn't that far of a reach @ #6 for them anyway. Or go in other direction with one of other 3 names.

St Kilda-
7 & 8- Cerra/Coffield/Clark/Bonar/Stephenson......We get two of these guys. Cerra most likely if Pies pass him up.

 

[Joffaboy]

The first one is correct, but both Freo and Sydney definitely wanted to keep the other two. Robbo was coming home come hell or high water and Skunk left for more opps and Sydney delisted him as a favour to us, after we weren't able to get a draft pick that was worth anything to them.

There has been a rumour or suggestion that Hartung cut ties with Hawthorn though, and that it wasn't simply a case of them chopping him after no-one would trade for him.

Doesnt matter the spin. Both were delisted.

Hartung is a different case as he is not as good as those two. If there is a massive slider @ 45 Hartung misses out.

We wanted both Robbo and Skunk. If we draft Hartung it is a lifeline as we could have drafted him as DFA.

Hartung may have some upside. Not a complete spud.

 

[gringo2011]

What the hell, Brayshaw is a "messy inside mid" and you reckon he's inside only, despite the fact he's clearly the cleaner of the two (hence being the one in the mix for pick 1 and having the higher efficiency, especially kicking) and that everything you said about Clark being able to play on the wing could just as easily be applied to Brayshaw!?

Your bagging of him is completely and ridiculously irrational. It's like you're watch vids of Hamish Brayshaw and then applying what you've seen in your comments about Andrew!

I'm hamming it up now, he'll be a good safe bet. I reckon his outside game will be Seb Ross like if he gets to his peak powers. To me Seb is a very good player but he's a step down from a superstar match winner. I really want to start accumulating guys who have Dusty, Fyfe or Danger type abilities. Obviously I'm projecting onto guys like HC and Bonar and Stepho, and hoping they have those elusive traits that make them special players. I just really don't see Brayshaw having that. The special players don't move so we need to be brave and try to find out own, that takes some high risk recruiting. Time for Trout to put his teddy bear away, stop hiding under the bed and get us some champions.

 

[gringo2011]

Doesnt matter the spin. Both were delisted.

Hartung is a different case as he is not as good as those two. If there is a massive slider @ 45 Hartung misses out.

We wanted both Robbo and Skunk. If we draft Hartung it is a lifeline as we could have drafted him as DFA.

Hartung may have some upside. Not a complete spud.

If we can't draft an outside mid, he might be a handy fill in for a year or two while we search for a better option. He's still young enough that he could become something anyway. Hawthorn sent Josh Kennedy off for a pick in the 40s didn't they? Clarko doesn't always get it right.

 

[TheJackal]

A different school of thought just now.

Any mid, especially an outside leaning mid is not going to make a huge impact in their first season. At best, we hope they hold their own and maintain a best 22 spot.

So we may play finals next year but the chance that pick 7 or 8 plays more of a bit part are rare.

So where am I going with this?

Basically, we need to draft best available with both picks. We need not to give us the best chance at a quality mid or 2 but the best chance at 2 a grade players.

If it just so happened that best available kid is Coffield, matched with Stephenson, and they became AA defenders/fwds then I wouldn't care one bit.

This isn't the final piece to our puzzle rebuild.

Coffield could easily free up Robbo to kill it on a wing, or White could also step up to the wing as was the plan when drafted.

Having said that, all it could take is Acres to step in, Gresh to play on the ball, Freeman to cement a spot, and we would be asking why we desperately needed a mid.

Finally, Gaff, Sloane or Shiel could all be in Saints colours in 2019.

The rebuild isn't completed on Friday night, we just need the best we can get. No risks, none of this we have 2 picks lets 'reinvent the wheel with the second thinking'. Lets just go to the draft and pick the 2 best available.

 

[gringo2011]

Some massive overthinking going on.

1. Every single potential has weaknesses
2. To carry on about "sloppy" disposal and kicking % is plain silly.
So if we had the chance we knock back Dangerfield who butchers the ball time and again.

Rob Harvey was never a penetrating kick. We would have let him pass?

3. We wont know for years if these kids are going to be stars

Also that 100% efficiency thing is a load of crap, it must be like the contested possession stats where they only need to have a player with 10 meters or something.

Fyfe and Danger are both below average by foot but somehow seem to have been able to have pretty good career.

 

[stavro#4]

Top 5 taking shape I feel

Brisbane-
1. Brayshaw.....Ticks more boxes than Rayner for them and no flight risk. Leadership qualities fits Lions culture rebuild. Not the sexy pick Lions fans want but sounds like they maybe favouring him.

Fremantle-
2. LDU......Seems best fit for Dockers as bonafide Mid. They Don't take Rayner because they won't get LDU at #5 because Cerra interviewed poorly with them, Home-sickness (Girlfriend) an issue and Dow is considered a flight risk also. Freo fans calling Cerra a FIGJAM mummas boy over on their forum lol

Carlton-
3. Rayner......Falls in Blues lap after being touted as best in draft for some time, to good to overlook. Star factor up forward can win games lone handed. Will add a mid at pick 10 if they want remembering they landed highly rated Kennedy from GWS in trade period despite losing Gibbs so not in a panic to replenish midfield stocks with #3 and #10

North Melbourne-
4. Dow.......Easy choice & Best mid available here. Would have maybe considered Stephenson but the ticker may have spooked them or Brayshaw going 1 pushes Dow down who they probably didn't think they could get a couple weeks ago. Cerra again interviewed poorly here, seems he has preferences in Pies and Saints.

Fremantle-
5. Fogarty.......Get a Forward/Mid Utility in D Fog who can help there putrid forward line to much reliance on Cam McCarthy and Walters firing for them. Same height as Pavlich and can throw him in middle with LDU, Fyfe and Mundy. Running of the bulls. They don't necessarily need two Mids as they are pretty set with plenty of outside class also. Hill brothers, Neale, Bennell etc. Plus Cerra kinda forces this selection. Prospect of Naughton/Stephenson maybe causing them some restless nights but Fogarty could be the next Pav.

From here it gets murky which is all the more frustrating because its the 'Riff Raff' and only one pick before us. We need some clarity FFS

Collingwood-
6. Cerra/Naughton/Coffield/Murphy/Stephenson.......Do they go need (Naughton) or best available (Cerra). Naughton isn't that far of a reach @ #6 for them anyway. Or go in other direction with one of other 3 names.

St Kilda-
7 & 8- Cerra/Coffield/Clark/Bonar/Stephenson......We get two of these guys. Cerra most likely if Pies pass him up.

This is the dream for us. Potentially cerra and Stephenson who I personally think we are desperate for.

I am starting to come around on Moorabbin Ghost boy Hunter Clark. He was keen about 2 months ago on him when I wasn't. But his highlight reel actually is exciting

I still can't see brayshaw as #1. He just lacks that something special to me to go that high. I think Rayner at 1. Dow will be taken by North according to the guys I've spoken too. They have him at #1 on their boards.

 

[Significant]

1. BRIS - Rayner
2. FRE - LDU
3. CAR - Cerra
4. NM - Dow
5. FRE - Brayshaw
6. COL - Naughton
7. STK - Stephenson
8. STK - Clark
9. WBD - Coffield
10. CAR - Fogarty

 

[CHBench]

I have this awful feeling that Collingwood are going to take Cerra if he's there. Not even going to bother getting my hopes up